Seriously, F the Police

Off Topic
361

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

However, I did post court cases and laws supporting the argument I was making. It was ignored because it can not be legitimately contested, [/quote]

Nothing you posted supports your arguments. Let’s go back there shall we?

You stated that leaving Applebee’s during business hours is “suspicious” and warrants a traffic stop. POST A REFERENCE TO SUPPORT THAT POSITION.

You also stated, in so many words, that an officer’s “feeling” or opinion or whatever constitutes “probably cause”. POST A REFERENCE TO SUPPORT THAT POSITION.

I WANT TO SEE THE COURT CASE WHERE A LEO LEGALLY SEARCHED A CAR BECAUSE HE “THOUGHT” (WITH NO OTHER EVIDENCE) THERE WAS DRUGS INSIDE.

I’m waiting…[/quote]

My links directly address your questions. You either have not read them or are choosing to ignore them.

My apologies for the “probably”, it has probably been posted more than once. My “smartphone” auto correct feature isn’t very smart.
[/quote]

I don’t and haven’t had any questions for you. And I know the law well enough to discuss it in this context. I invited you to return to your original positions and you just can’t seem to get there. Let me know when you do and I shall return to “debate” you.

A reminder; you first stated that his leaving Applebee’s during business hours was sufficiently “suspicious” as to warrant a stop. I say it is absolutely not. I don’t need to read your references to know that fact. If you read those references to support that position, you are incorrectly applying what you are reading. And that’s the problem with playing lawyer. Now, I’m no lawyer, but after directing complex litigation for 20 years, I knew enough to direct the defense and make the big decisions. I’ve handled HUNDREDS of civil rights and wrongful arrest types of claims to conclusion - meaning I know the results, and what the courts ultimately ruled on issues like this.

So let’s do this real slow. Return to Applebee’s and support your original statement. That’s the goal line sir. And we can move from there - I can’t wait to get to your “probable cause” statements about searching a car.

362

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I’m surprised you answered this attempted demeaning question coming from someone of lower intelligence that is just clueless enough not to know he’s not the smartest guy in the room right now. Kind of like the fish at the poker table. You have to be competent enough to even know you’re the fish. [/quote]

It’s the least I can do.

Life is actually pretty similar. I usually get along really well with just about everybody. Then, every so often, theres one guy who just really wants to take a swing. So I let 'em swing but make sure that they miss, and when they get tired ask if they are done yet. Meanwhile everybody who is familiar with me looks on in disbelief that I don’t disembowel the fucking idiot.

I’ve come to believe that it has very little to do with me and is much more about them and what they are experiencing.

Let him have his fun, or what ever the fuck it is that he thinks he’s doing. It’s probably the only time in his god forsaken life that he feels alive.

363

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
So much of communicating is lost when reduced to type. In which case you are actually a retard. Which is ok too.

[/quote]

Obviously, you are absolutely correct in this statement. I’ve received a great deal of feedback on this very matter, and until now, refused to believe it.

I’ll definitely do something about that though.

364

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

My cousin is a lot younger than me (I used to change his diapers). He was a very bright boy and very idealistic. He was friendly, smiled all the time and really wanted to make a difference. He joined the force about five years ago or so. Now he’s pretty much a dick. He doesn’t show up at many family reunions anymore (cuz he chases the overtime). When I do see him, he doesn’t have the same smile that he used to.

He is withdrawn, selfish, moody, etc… It’s like the job is stealing his soul.
[/quote]
AC, honest question for you; not trying to agree or disagree with anyone.

Do you think that the very nature of the job almost “forces” men (and women) to become this way?

By that I mean: Is dealing, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society, with always being at risk of being a target, with often being physically attacked, etc. simply too much for the average person to experience without becoming “a dick?”
[/quote]

I DO believe that in SOME jurisdictions, Baltimore being one of them, they are fighting an uphill battle against crime. For every drug dealer they take off the street, two take his place. So in that regard it has to be demoralizing. That being said, it’s still not an excuse. People are responsible for their state of mind. And for cops outside of the city or major crime area, they have NO excuse for being dicks. [/quote]

Do you think that unless the pay is raised, it will always be hard to find people who don’t become dicks?[/quote]

Honestly, I think that even if you doubled the salary they’d still be dicks.

365

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I’m surprised you answered this attempted demeaning question coming from someone of lower intelligence that is just clueless enough not to know he’s not the smartest guy in the room right now. Kind of like the fish at the poker table. You have to be competent enough to even know you’re the fish. [/quote]

It’s the least I can do.

Life is actually pretty similar. I usually get along really well with just about everybody. Then, every so often, theres one guy who just really wants to take a swing. So I let 'em swing but make sure that they miss, and when they get tired ask if they are done yet. Meanwhile everybody who is familiar with me looks on in disbelief that I don’t disembowel the fucking idiot.

I’ve come to believe that it has very little to do with me and is much more about them and what they are experiencing.

Let him have his fun, or what ever the fuck it is that he thinks he’s doing. It’s probably the only time in his god forsaken life that he feels alive.
[/quote]

Truth. I wish he asked me my highest level of education and how well I did in grade school. He would have felt REALLY good about himself then! LOL

367

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Do you think that the very nature of the job almost “forces” men (and women) to become this way?

By that I mean: Is dealing, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society, with always being at risk of being a target, with often being physically attacked, etc. simply too much for the average person to experience without becoming “a dick?”
[/quote]

I deal, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society and despite being at risk of becoming a target I do it with compassion and good humor. [/quote]

And above all else, humility.

<Just kidding!>

Can I ask what you do?[/quote]

I work in community mental health. Mentally ill people, court mandated people, substance abusers. Along with lots and lots of perfectly normal, perfectly nice people. Same population as the cops. To be fair to the cops, I generally see them when they’re organized and sober…I don’t go chasing into the middle of their domestic violence episodes or deal with them when they’ve drunkenly driven cars into walls, which is obviously a whole 'nother level of stress, but yeah, same people.

I’m humble as hell. It’s one of my many, many sterling qualities. lol

368

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

I deal, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society and despite being at risk of becoming a target I do it with compassion and good humor. [/quote]

Says the kitty with the sniper rifle…

369

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

I deal, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society and despite being at risk of becoming a target I do it with compassion and good humor. [/quote]

Says the kitty with the sniper rifle…

[/quote]

Ha! I only use it on bullies, though!

370

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Do you think that the very nature of the job almost “forces” men (and women) to become this way?

By that I mean: Is dealing, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society, with always being at risk of being a target, with often being physically attacked, etc. simply too much for the average person to experience without becoming “a dick?”
[/quote]

I deal, day in and day out, with the worst parts of our society and despite being at risk of becoming a target I do it with compassion and good humor. [/quote]

And above all else, humility.

<Just kidding!>

Can I ask what you do?[/quote]

I work in community mental health. Mentally ill people, court mandated people, substance abusers. Along with lots and lots of perfectly normal, perfectly nice people. Same population as the cops. To be fair to the cops, I generally see them when they’re organized and sober…I don’t go chasing into the middle of their domestic violence episodes or deal with them when they’ve drunkenly driven cars into walls, which is obviously a whole 'nother level of stress, but yeah, same people.

I’m humble as hell. It’s one of my many, many sterling qualities. lol
[/quote]

That is a sterling quality, as is your discreet sarcasm. One thing about cops though, is that they are trained to be “dicks”. They do show up to scenes of humanity in it’s darker form on a regular basis with out too much knowledge of what is going on and who is a threat et cetera.

They are taught to take control of the scene on arrival, whether it is a traffic stop or a response to gun shots.

If they just mope on up to a scene ungaurded, their life is potentially in danger. Just saying.

Of course, a cop who stops and old granny and is just plain rude is being an unjustified dick. Yes this happens, no it shouldn’t, not all cops are like that. But using a firm tone and strong body language conveys control, which can some times diffuse a situation before it escalates to violence. I would imagine similar techniques are taught for unruly hospital patients? Sure they must be restrained at times? The technique is used on unruly children who break the rules and even on dogs in training. Unfortunately, adults feel entitled to drive fast, have one too many, what have you and when scolded they act like babies. So the cops act like daddies. It’s just how it is.

372

Oh, I’m fully aware that I don’t do what cops do. When there’s an explicit threat here we go on lock-down and wait for the police. When I assess someone who is thought to be a threat to self or others at the ER, I have a guard right outside the door. I’m not a cop hater. What I hate are people who abuse power, whether cops, big guys who bully, bitchy, berating mothers…whatever.

TexasGuy, strong body language works to deescalate, but so does pleasant body language.

373

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Oh, I’m fully aware that I don’t do what cops do. When there’s an explicit threat here we go on lock-down and wait for the police. When I assess someone who is thought to be a threat to self or others at the ER, I have a guard right outside the door. I’m not a cop hater. What I hate are people who abuse power, whether cops, big guys who bully, bitchy, berating mothers…whatever.

TexasGuy, strong body language works to deescalate, but so does pleasant body language.[/quote]

Yes, pleasant body language certainly does. It’s a very effective sales and management tactic. I’m not a cop but I would imagine when a cop shows up to a murder scene or a big drug bust and goes after the suspect, he isn’t so confident that being friendly will allow him to escape with his life. He has to establish dominance. A negotiator may try a friendly persona in a hostage situation but that is different. I think each strategy has it’s own niche and more often than not, fire does fight fire.

374

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
Something you complain about today, will likely be something you’ll really need tomorrow.

Just saying.[/quote]

If I ever decide to bat of the other side, then I guess you’re right, because I probably will need a nightstick up my ass

375

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Wow. Some of those other races need to step up their tactics for not getting caught.

Anyhow, I’ve had a festering anger since Saturday night.

The wife and I were leaving Applebees after hanging out with some friends. 1:20 in the morning, and as we leave the lot, a cop is heading up the driveway in the opposite direction. He turns and follows us down the driveway, and a couple hundred yards out lights us up. Standard pull over, except that we had not committed any moving violations. I say “What the fuck?” as my wife pulls over. Cop approaches, we wind down the window, license, registration, and all that jazz. We hand it over and he says he’ll explain why in a moment. Comes back to the window and says that he was investigating a call about a domestic dispute at the location we just left from, and we matched the description. He added that we both seemed O.K., and sorry for the inconvenience.

Heres the rub. He had no lawful reason to stop us. There was no domestic dispute at the location we just exited, and I know this because I was there. What he actually did was a fishing expedition on the good chance that he would catch a DUI in progress disguised with a lie. When my wife opened the window and there was no waft of booze fuming from the passenger cab, the cop needed a legitimate sounding reason for having violated our right to pass freely, so he had to make up a reasonable cause.

So, yeah, Fuck the police, and their idiotic, lying, thug tactics to impose fear and erode civil liberty.

From the mouth of my very wise and experienced attorney- “Cops are liars. They all do it. Fortunately for us, they are also idiots.”.
[/quote]

Surely the cop was in the wrong, no question. A domestic dispute? At Applebees? Unless you live at Applebees, he was covering his own ass. If it was genuine, he’d have been called out on a public order offense, which doesn’t require the checking of your vehicle, last time I looked into it…unless you live in your car…and since you were pulled over, it would become a domestic motoring offense. Outside your other home, Applebees.

Admit it, you argued with your wife in a restaurant/ car called Applebees and upset the patrons by driving off without them.

376

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Serious question here, I honestly am curious and hope for an honest response. What is your highest level of education? How did you perform in grade school? On standardized tests? Your IQ level? Are math, science and logic in general difficult for you?

[/quote]

Currently enrolled, 4th semester of an engineering program.

Grade school- Phenominal. Always in the 99th percentile on all categories of all standardized tests, IQ was last measured at 160, and in preceding tests was consistently similar.
I’m pretty good with math and logic too.

Look, I understand that it is important to you to feel that you have a leg up on people, but I really don’t give a fuck.

You should probably try this with someone else. There is no satisfaction to be gotten here for you.

If it makes you feel any better, you make a lot more money than me, and have led a much better more privileged life.

There, feel better now?

(although, your ability to detect sarcasm sucks)
[/quote]

hahahahahaha…are you serious? Do you really expect anyone here to believe you have an IQ of 160? If you are going to make up a score at least make it believable.

Albert Einstein is estimated to have had an IQ of around 160-180…and you my friend are no Einstein. An IQ of 130-135 is a MENSA level IQ.

You are no Einstein, however you are good for a laugh once in a while.

377

[quote]trevor16 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Serious question here, I honestly am curious and hope for an honest response. What is your highest level of education? How did you perform in grade school? On standardized tests? Your IQ level? Are math, science and logic in general difficult for you?

[/quote]

Currently enrolled, 4th semester of an engineering program.

Grade school- Phenominal. Always in the 99th percentile on all categories of all standardized tests, IQ was last measured at 160, and in preceding tests was consistently similar.
I’m pretty good with math and logic too.

Look, I understand that it is important to you to feel that you have a leg up on people, but I really don’t give a fuck.

You should probably try this with someone else. There is no satisfaction to be gotten here for you.

If it makes you feel any better, you make a lot more money than me, and have led a much better more privileged life.

There, feel better now?

(although, your ability to detect sarcasm sucks)
[/quote]

hahahahahaha…are you serious? Do you really expect anyone here to believe you have an IQ of 160? If you are going to make up a score at least make it believable.

Albert Einstein is estimated to have had an IQ of around 160-180…and you my friend are no Einstein. An IQ of 130-135 is a MENSA level IQ.

You are no Einstein, however you are good for a laugh once in a while. [/quote]

130 here. Where’s my mensa certificate? :slight_smile:

But I read some interesting theories about IQ and performance in the book Outliers (highly recommend). Basically, in a nutshell, you only need “enough”. For instance, “enough” for a typical college grad is usually right around 110-115 if I recall correctly. Grad school, 120. The basic principal was that you only needed “enough” (I’m paraphrasing) and that there were no real higher outlooks for the 130’s v. a 120. Also, super high intelligent (like a 160) does not necessarily a successful person make (they gave a great example), especially if you lack emotional IQ (the ability to navigate the world and the people in it).

378

I’ve read that the “ideal IQ range” is 125-145, which is high enough to do almost anything you want to do but not so high as to create isolation, whether self-imposed (can’t find compatible others) or outwardly imposed (others find one overly quirky or abstruse).

However, I think measuring intelligence is an inexact science at best. Way, way too many confounds. And I hear a lot of numbers tossed that make me laugh, on both ends. Kids I work with who are sharp as fuck but have tested as average or below average, adults citing numbers that make me snort. But eh, who cares really.

379

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]trevor16 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Serious question here, I honestly am curious and hope for an honest response. What is your highest level of education? How did you perform in grade school? On standardized tests? Your IQ level? Are math, science and logic in general difficult for you?

[/quote]

Currently enrolled, 4th semester of an engineering program.

Grade school- Phenominal. Always in the 99th percentile on all categories of all standardized tests, IQ was last measured at 160, and in preceding tests was consistently similar.
I’m pretty good with math and logic too.

Look, I understand that it is important to you to feel that you have a leg up on people, but I really don’t give a fuck.

You should probably try this with someone else. There is no satisfaction to be gotten here for you.

If it makes you feel any better, you make a lot more money than me, and have led a much better more privileged life.

There, feel better now?

(although, your ability to detect sarcasm sucks)
[/quote]

hahahahahaha…are you serious? Do you really expect anyone here to believe you have an IQ of 160? If you are going to make up a score at least make it believable.

Albert Einstein is estimated to have had an IQ of around 160-180…and you my friend are no Einstein. An IQ of 130-135 is a MENSA level IQ.

You are no Einstein, however you are good for a laugh once in a while. [/quote]

130 here. Where’s my mensa certificate? :slight_smile:

But I read some interesting theories about IQ and performance in the book Outliers (highly recommend). Basically, in a nutshell, you only need “enough”. For instance, “enough” for a typical college grad is usually right around 110-115 if I recall correctly. Grad school, 120. The basic principal was that you only needed “enough” (I’m paraphrasing) and that there were no real higher outlooks for the 130’s v. a 120. Also, super high intelligent (like a 160) does not necessarily a successful person make (they gave a great example), especially if you lack emotional IQ (the ability to navigate the world and the people in it). [/quote]

You are obviously a smart guy and although I don’t agree with you most of the time I can believe you.

Similarly to what you said, from what I understand IQ becomes very difficult to measure above a certain level and anyone who claims an extremely high score (ie 160) is likely incorrect.

Also as per MENSA:
From Wikipedia: “But most IQ tests are designed to yield a mean score of 100 with a standard deviation of 15; the 98th-percentile score under these conditions is 130.82.”

Sorry but it looks like you just missed the cut:)

380

Isn’t it great we live in a country where an anonymous poster on an internet forum can denigrate the municipal and county police departments of an entire nation with impunity.