Holy crap!
can you guys lay off the walls of text??
A little more discretion on quoting, please.
Agreed. A bit o strategic truncation would be just fabulous.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Do we see fossil’s with “primate” like characteristics? Of course we do. But does that mean they were our ancestors? Probably not. They could have easily been deformed human beings, or simply a species of its own that was not on its way to becoming man.
[/quote]
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.[/quote]
Go ahead. prove the contrary.
I have looked at a substantial amount of evidence. I had to several times, for my classes. It would be one thing to deny the fossil’s we have. But to insinuate that they are our evolutionary ancestors is not a more viable option than them being a tribe of deformed humans or just simply another species not on their way to becoming a man.
Thing is science has made postulations of the unobservable (macroevolution). A theory must be testable, which macroevolution cannot be. [/quote]
As I said, ignorance of the topic.
The department of microbiology and molecular genetics at Michigan State has been running an experiment with e-coli for the past twenty years or so that has produced something on the order of hundreds if not thousands of generations of e-coli every year. Their work has proven out the validity of macro evolution.
As I believe was mentioned above as well, many physical and even behavioral mutations are being correlated with differences in genomes.
You could, of course, do a quick google search and come up with some pretty good material. I did, and I found this:
[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Holy crap!
can you guys lay off the walls of text??
A little more discretion on quoting, please. [/quote]
Sorry, now that I look at it it’s a bit annoying.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Okay…and I know this.[/quote]
If it’s just a completely unfounded concept how does it hold any legitimacy? W
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Okay…and I know this.[/quote]
If it’s just a completely unfounded concept how does it hold any legitimacy? W[/quote]
What do you mean unfounded concept? Maybe I’m just not connecting something to understand what you’re getting at.
P.S. Sorry for my ignorance just been a late night of work.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, Adam and Eve were the first woman and man. And, you completely misunderstood Genesis 1-3 then. See what happens when you “read” the Bible.[/quote]
God makes Adam and Eve. They’re driven out of the garden of Eden. Genesis indicates there are other people living outside the garden of Eden, where did they come from? Simple question, really. Like who was Cain’s wife. It makes no sense at all, unless you believe God thought incest was OK for the first few thousand years.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, Adam and Eve were the first woman and man. And, you completely misunderstood Genesis 1-3 then. See what happens when you “read” the Bible.[/quote]
God makes Adam and Eve. They’re driven out of the garden of Eden. Genesis indicates there are other people living outside the garden of Eden, where did they come from? Simple question, really. Like who was Cain’s wife. It makes no sense at all, unless you believe God thought incest was OK for the first few thousand years.[/quote]
You’re taking the purpose of Genesis 1-3 in the wrong direction. If you wish to understand Genesis 1-3 better, read Cardinal Ratzinger’s book In the Beginning.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.[/quote]
If you want to claim the Bible is infallible, you had better be able to prove it. Your claim, your proof.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.[/quote]
Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
Did John know Jesus was the Messiah or did he not?
What was Josephs exact geneology?
When exactly did the last supper take place?
How did Judas die? Did he die at all?
Another one: Noah survives the flood and manages to repopulate the Earth with all it’s genetic diversity from the contents of his boat, how does that work? Even a child would reject that story as ludicrous.
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
Another one: Noah survives the flood and manages to repopulate the Earth with all it’s genetic diversity from the contents of his boat, how does that work? Even a child would reject that story as ludicrous.[/quote]
Yeah well, there were giants before the flood, then it came and kill everyone but Noa, afterwards there are still giants.
Do they float?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.[/quote]
Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
Did John know Jesus was the Messiah or did he not?
What was Josephs exact geneology?
When exactly did the last supper take place?
How did Judas die? Did he die at all?
[/quote]
Listen, don’t bother with technical inaccuraces or things like that. Want to disprove the bible? Here’s one: snakes don’t fucking talk and water has never and will never suddenly defy physics because a man raised a staff in front of it. Period, end.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.[/quote]
Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
Did John know Jesus was the Messiah or did he not?
What was Josephs exact geneology?
When exactly did the last supper take place?
How did Judas die? Did he die at all?
[/quote]
Listen, don’t bother with technical inaccuraces or things like that. Want to disprove the bible? Here’s one: snakes don’t fucking talk and water has never and will never suddenly defy physics because a man raised a staff in front of it. Period, end.[/quote]
That does not work, because God can do anything.
There is no need to attack the bible when it comes to historical innacuracies, it contradicts itself repeatedly.
The last supper was either on the first day of the Pessach fest or one day before.
Judas either hanged himself, or he spilled out his guts or he was still around to see Jesus come back.
Jesus was either buried in a community grave or alone.
The field where Judas did or did not die was either bought by him or a priest who refused to return blood money to the temples treasury.
John either greeted Jesus as the Messiah or he sent messengers to Jesus to inquire whether he really was “the one”.
In all this cases it is either one or the other, definitely not both.
[quote]Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
[/quote]
http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/when-did-john-find-out-jesus-was-messiah
You’re probably referring to the “contradictory” statements of Mark 14:12 and John 19:14. In that case the Jewish day starts at 6pm of what we would call the day before. In other words the Sabbath begins Friday night at 6pm and ends Saturday night at 6pm. So Jesus and His disciples could and would have more than likely have had the last supper the same day of Jesus crucifixion. He had the supper in the evening, and than was crucified the next morning as long as the supper was 6pm or later and His death was before 6pm of what we would call the following day, according to the Jewish Calendar/Law it is the same day.
[quoteHow did Judas die? Did he die at all?[/quote]
You are probably referring to Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:16-19, where Matthew says he hangs himself and Acts says that he falls headlong and all his bowels gushed out. There is no contradiction here at all because both are true. A contradiction occurs when one statement excludes the possibility of another. In fact, what happened here is that Judas went and hung himself and then his body later fell down and split open. In other words, the rope or branch of the tree probably broke due to the weight and his body fell down and his bowels spilled out.
Also, notice that Matt. 27:3-8 tells us specifically how Judas died, by hanging. Acts 1:16-19 merely tells us that he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out. Acts does not tell us that this is the means of his death where Matthew does.
And yes I did direct you to some websites instead of addressing them myself because I myself didn’t know the answer. None the less it doesn’t matter as the contradictions were addressed. Thought I’d point that out before someone says “well all you did was spew off crap from websites”
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
riddled with errors and inconsistencies[/quote]
Proof[/quote]
He’s not the one making outrageous claims of infallibility. Burden of proof has always and will always lie with you.[/quote]
I can’t prove a there is not a mistake, because that would require me of proving every letter of the Bible. Please learn how burden of proof works.[/quote]
Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
Did John know Jesus was the Messiah or did he not?
What was Josephs exact geneology?
When exactly did the last supper take place?
How did Judas die? Did he die at all?
[/quote]
Listen, don’t bother with technical inaccuraces or things like that. Want to disprove the bible? Here’s one: snakes don’t fucking talk and water has never and will never suddenly defy physics because a man raised a staff in front of it. Period, end.[/quote]
That does not work, because God can do anything.
There is no need to attack the bible when it comes to historical innacuracies, it contradicts itself repeatedly.
The last supper was either on the first day of the Pessach fest or one day before.
Judas either hanged himself, or he spilled out his guts or he was still around to see Jesus come back.
Jesus was either buried in a community grave or alone.
The field where Judas did or did not die was either bought by him or a priest who refused to return blood money to the temples treasury.
John either greeted Jesus as the Messiah or he sent messengers to Jesus to inquire whether he really was “the one”.
In all this cases it is either one or the other, definitely not both.
[/quote]
All they’ll do is logical backflips or make shit up to fit.
Let me give one a try:
“Jesus was either buried in a community grave or alone.”
Maybe the grave was originally intended to be a community grave but Jesus was the only one in it!
See? bible is inerrant.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
[/quote]
http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/when-did-john-find-out-jesus-was-messiah
You’re probably referring to the “contradictory” statements of Mark 14:12 and John 19:14. In that case the Jewish day starts at 6pm of what we would call the day before. In other words the Sabbath begins Friday night at 6pm and ends Saturday night at 6pm. So Jesus and His disciples could and would have more than likely have had the last supper the same day of Jesus crucifixion. He had the supper in the evening, and than was crucified the next morning as long as the supper was 6pm or later and His death was before 6pm of what we would call the following day, according to the Jewish Calendar/Law it is the same day.
[quoteHow did Judas die? Did he die at all?[/quote]
You are probably referring to Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:16-19, where Matthew says he hangs himself and Acts says that he falls headlong and all his bowels gushed out. There is no contradiction here at all because both are true. A contradiction occurs when one statement excludes the possibility of another. In fact, what happened here is that Judas went and hung himself and then his body later fell down and split open. In other words, the rope or branch of the tree probably broke due to the weight and his body fell down and his bowels spilled out.
Also, notice that Matt. 27:3-8 tells us specifically how Judas died, by hanging. Acts 1:16-19 merely tells us that he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out. Acts does not tell us that this is the means of his death where Matthew does.
And yes I did direct you to some websites instead of addressing them myself because I myself didn’t know the answer. None the less it doesn’t matter as the contradictions were addressed. Thought I’d point that out before someone says “well all you did was spew off crap from websites”
[/quote]
I’m shocked.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Ah, in that case:
What happened the day Jesus died, and in what exact order?
[/quote]
http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/when-did-john-find-out-jesus-was-messiah
You’re probably referring to the “contradictory” statements of Mark 14:12 and John 19:14. In that case the Jewish day starts at 6pm of what we would call the day before. In other words the Sabbath begins Friday night at 6pm and ends Saturday night at 6pm. So Jesus and His disciples could and would have more than likely have had the last supper the same day of Jesus crucifixion. He had the supper in the evening, and than was crucified the next morning as long as the supper was 6pm or later and His death was before 6pm of what we would call the following day, according to the Jewish Calendar/Law it is the same day.
[quoteHow did Judas die? Did he die at all?[/quote]
You are probably referring to Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:16-19, where Matthew says he hangs himself and Acts says that he falls headlong and all his bowels gushed out. There is no contradiction here at all because both are true. A contradiction occurs when one statement excludes the possibility of another. In fact, what happened here is that Judas went and hung himself and then his body later fell down and split open. In other words, the rope or branch of the tree probably broke due to the weight and his body fell down and his bowels spilled out.
Also, notice that Matt. 27:3-8 tells us specifically how Judas died, by hanging. Acts 1:16-19 merely tells us that he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out. Acts does not tell us that this is the means of his death where Matthew does.
And yes I did direct you to some websites instead of addressing them myself because I myself didn’t know the answer. None the less it doesn’t matter as the contradictions were addressed. Thought I’d point that out before someone says “well all you did was spew off crap from websites”
[/quote]
I’m shocked.[/quote]
Nonono.
-Was Jesus first brought to the High Priest or to Annas, his father in law.
When did the scribes and the priests meet, the day before, that day, the day after or not at all?
Who did plave the robe on Jesus shoulder and when? Herod or the Roman soldiers?
Did other people rise from the dead when Jesus died?
-I thibk your second link indicates that John was less interested in hoistorical accuracy but in presenting Jesus as the son of God. Yeah well, if it is fiction we are talking about here, fine, but that pretty much makes the innerant claim obsolete.
-
You are saying that the writers of the bible did not know about the Sabbath? It also does not matter because it was either on the day of the Pessach fest or one day before, no matter how you count your days.
-
It is not even clear whether Judas dies at all, because Jesus presented himself to all twelve apostles when he came back.
-
Funny, neither Matthew nor Luke mention Mary, they both give a clear account of Josefs lineage though. In some points they match, in others they dont. I would also point you to the fact that Marys parents were Joachim and Anna, so if they actually desacribed Marys lineage, which they clearly did not, I assume that they would at least have gotten her father right.
I would also like to point out that EVEN IF one was Marys lineage, one account goes back 28 generations to David and the other 44.
So, unless Josef and Mary lived in alternate universes, I would at least expect the number of generations to match, give or take one or two.
You know, I have a feeling this will be a continuous, ongoing matter that will never be resolved. I have presented evidence. You have presented counter evidence. I can provide counter arguments against you, and you will fire more back at me. This will keep going.