Depends who you’re talking to and if they’re interested in honest discussion …
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At the end of the day, my initial post was also inaccurate. I had $44k for LPNs (at the time I didn’t realize he was specifically referring to RNs and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt) and a low range of $28k-$50k for RNs. I admitted as much yesterday or the day before.
Obviously, yesterday it devolved into who is right and who is wrong instead of what are the facts. I will admit that @greenboy has a point, that this does happen sometimes. I think it’s human nature to want to be right and since we can’t go outside like men of yesteryear, punch each other, and then have a beer we resort to the battleground of our time, the interwebs.
However, if we want to revisit the discussion that happened because of this whole RN example, the points I made still stand with average starting pay in the low to mid-50s.
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Oh can we, please please please?
I haven’t read much of the nurse stuff but I’m guessing someone on the internet is wrong.
They need stopping men, lets get 'em.
Right, this happens all the time and why I absolutely hate link wars. For example, this also happened in the women’s World Cup thread. I have followed the sport, and the issue with this complaint for years now, that doesn’t mean I have all the numbers in my head, but I do know what the merits are.
But then someone, I forget who it was, comes in and does a quick google scan and pulls up some numbers they get from one side of the argument or whatever, and begins to hammer my point that I’m wrong without actually knowing zilch about the merits of the case. Same thing with the EPSN argument…
we have this fascination now with who can google and provide links more than the other without actually having any real world experience or knowledge on what is being linked. I find this to be a problem, especially since none of us are really going to commit our time to proper research, so then that opens things up to mistakes. You made that 44k mistake, and I routinely read mean as median, and vice versa.
The national median nurse starting salary is projected at $66,640 during 2016-2017, with overall employment in the field expected to rise 16% within the next decade. Nurse Practitioners have the highest of all employees in the field. The current RN starting salary is $15,000 more than that of an LPN.
I wasn’t totally off base, and given that I’m speaking about my experience, within the coastal regions I reside in, with the level of education I tend to talk about saying a woman can come out making 60,70, and even 80 as a nurse is not outlandishly inaccurate because i in fact know people that have managed this. But then we want to hammer semantics or whatever, honest mistakes will happen. I believe no one should immediately be discredit for because It does nothing for the discussion.
The discussion was about women beginning to have better avenues today compared to their male counterparts. For example one of my ex gfs is a physician assistant. Not the brightest tool in the shed, and almost flunked out her first year of a 2 year physician assistant program, came out with 85k on her first year. What’s the point of that? Well, in her graduating class I think there may have been 2 dudes in there. 2! Why? It’s really a decent gig… 4 year + an extra 2 year accelerated program and you’re guaranteed 80k+ in most instances? How many degrees can achieve that without totally destroying yourself? (like a truck driver working endless hours)
We can talk about the ceiling of accounting and finance degrees but I’m sure you guys know that in this field nothing is guaranteed, you have to climb a corporate later in those areas most of the time, and you all know how much of a pain in the ass that is. A cute little physician assistant can work for a small quiet doctors office and make 110k (which is where that ex is at now) in a northern city in Florida. Her life Is pretty darn good.
The entire point of that discussion was the fact that females are having better avenues than men right now and this has been talked about in the mainstream by prominent individuals. This isn’t a conspiracy theory I pulled out of my ass and it didn’t need to be bogged down by semantics.
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I mean, you were pretty off base. You don’t see a problem with using your experience in a higher cost of living area and then projecting that on women in the US in general? I think we’ve established, for the majority of new RNs, they will not be making anything close to $70k, right? Most are going to be making somewhere between probably $48k and $56K. A standard deviation from the mean of $52ish. We can agree on that, right?
Anecdotes are poor data points for a broad discussion because there is a lot of variability in earnings across the states.
Yes it was and I disagreed. Nursing, which employs about 3 million people in the US (300k of which are men) = about 3% of working women. There really aren’t any other female-dominated undergraduate degrees I can think of that pay more than most other male-dominated fields.
Funny enough, Payscale says she’s making slightly less than the average for an entry-level physician’s assistant. Why are men not taking advantage of this? Because they usually go into other fields (Stem) or become the physician, not the assistant. Something like 60% of physicians are men and they make more on average.
How many 6-year programs (undergrad + grad) can achieve $85/year out of the gate? I would guess most if not all of the Stem fields and probably a few others. Using a truck driver is kinda strange in comparison to someone with 6-years of higher education.
I mean, mid-level managers in finance with pretty limited responsibility can make $130k+ with a $20k+ bonus easily. Part of my job is comp analysis for a mid-size company so I think I have a pretty good idea here. No climbing was necessary. You have to climb once you hit the $150+ range.
I’m going to try my best not to sound condescending, but I think a lot of our disconnect is that you just sound so jaded. You’re telling me someone is paying your ex $110k essentially to be cute? Your default seems to be to discount the effort and work it takes to be in a field dominated by women (nursing is easy, being a physicians assistant is pretty much just about being cute)
Right and I don’t see that because men can choose to be nurses and physicians assistants too, but they choose not to, generally. Those avenues are open to them and there are a lot of traditionally male-dominated fields with more earnings potential. All of the Stem fields. Most fields in business. Etc…
Really? Didn’t you get an advanced degree in accounting if I remember correctly? are you making 130k+ with limited responsibility? No climbing necessary? Where? No, really, like where?
Most of us that came out during the crises have had entire careers stall for years, or never get going, so maybe I am jaded. Are college kids coming out straight into middle class and then under 5 years making 130k? Because if so that’s going to anger me even more lol I’m asking you honestly here, not being facetious.
Everyone, including myself, in any of those fields that have pushed close to 120k deal with A LOT, and had to do A LOT to get there. Most do not get there in 5 years from what I’ve seen. Or are you now turning into Manhattan salary numbers here?
fuckin’ patriarchy
I’m not about to discuss my earnings with a stranger on the internet… At any rate, you said “we can talk about ceilings of accounting and finance degrees” and I said “mid-level managers…” I can tell you with 100% certainty that people with just an undergraduate degree in accounting can clear $130k over time. I can also tell you with 100% certainty they can do it without even having to manage another employee, but most will manage a handful.
Sure. I exited the service in 2008 and finished my undergrad in 2012. I get it.
I’m not sure where the 5-years came from, but probably not in five years, but I know quite a few public accountants that are within 5-10 years. Corporate finance is probably closer to 15 or more depending on a number of factors.
I suppose that will depend on what your definition of a lot is. As I said, I see it quite a bit in a mid-size company with some office politics and some headaches, but not a lot. And no these aren’t manhattan numbers.
Ok, so let’s take a physician assistant that within 5 years easily makes 100-120 depending on where they are. I"m going by my ex that works in Florida. You go 4 years undergrad+ 2 years accelerated program and you’re immediately making decent money, unlike finance and accounting which usually nails you around 50k and a lot of times worse from my experience lol
An undergrad degree in finance can put you in such a large range of income, and usually (based on my experience) you won’t get to 120+ unless you work for a decent size company, like you said public accountant.
I have many friends that have and still work for one of the big 4, mid level managers make 120+bonus at around 5 years experience and they work like fucking dogs and most of them are CPAs and to be a CPA you need an advance degree or a huge accumulation of hours to sit for the exam. (actually, I think they did away with the work experience and now you have to have an advanced degree)
What undergrad in finance outside of people with 10-15 years experience cracks 120k? unless they’re in one of the huge markets or trading. it’s just not common from what I know.
The entire point was that the avenue for women right now is better to come out making more with less. This is all my personal experience, like I’ve always said, but from my large net that I cast I know more women doing well compared to the men. This seems to be a trend that continues to grow. (sorry, outside of STEM, I know some dudes in STEM that do well, they all do well hah)
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You were talking a load of cobblers in the Women’s World Cup thread, mate. And you can’t say I know ‘zilch’ about football…
That’s pretty amazing when average pay for a physician assistant is about $95k and about $100k with “mid-career” experience and $106k for “late-career” experience per payscale, but okay let’s not get bogged down on the details.
I know business managers, business analysts, budget analysts, and other folks in finance that make this in the 5-10 year range with no one reporting to them.
You don’t have to work for Big 4, a national, or even a regional firm to make $120k+ bonuses after 5-years. I know this for a fact. Some of them do work like dogs, but many do not. M&A accountants make bank for example. Corproate accountants do well for themselves too.
You need 150 hours to sit for the CPA exam.
Business, budget, and financial analysts can hit these numbers in the 5-10 year range. So can project managers. So can corporate accountants.
There are roughly 3M nursing jobs in the US. BLS says there are 118.8k physician assistant jobs. Roughly 97% of working women have to take another avenue.
I find that very strange because across the board women make less money for a number of reasons. There are almost no fields where a man makes less than a woman including nursing.
Then you have all the Stem fields that are an avenue predominantly for men to do well. I just don’t see this advantage for women.
Again, we can just look at the college salary report:
Business Analysis Mid-career $133.2k
Public Accounting mid-career $130.8k
Actuarial science mid-career $127.3k
Accounting & Economics mid-career $116.8k
These are based on 3.5 million respondents.
Nursing is $77.2k-$80.5k and Physician assistants are $109.6k. Physical therapy, which I think is another field with more women is $93.2k.
I just don’t see it.
Yeah but GB knows a guy…
Am I missing something? does that include bonuses and such?
A mid - career Public Accountant with 5-9 years of experience earns an average total compensation of $62,510 based on 17 salaries . An experienced Public Accountant with 10-19 years of experience earns an average total compensation of $62,400 based on 14 salaries
According to the BISK CPA Review, which also cites the National Association of Colleges and Employers survey, college graduates with accounting degrees averaged salaries of $50,500 in 2012. However, those who obtained a CPA license had a median salary of $73,800
An entry-level Accountant with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of $45,823 based on 1,714 salaries. An early career Accountant with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of $49,134 based on 11,634 salaries. A mid-career Accountant with 5-9 years of experience earns an average total compensation of $54,726 based on 4,981 salaries. An experienced Accountant with 10-19 years of experience earns an average total compensation of $55,927 based on 4,254 salaries. In their late career (20 years and higher), employees earn an average total compensation of $57,218.
We can go looking for sources everywhere.
I’m not sure why we continue to go in circles… doing these citation wars can go on forever lol
Yes, let’s not bog down because I can go googling as well https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/physician-assistant/salary
We can argue these fucking numbers all day depending on which angle you want to go. We can also include overtime (which so many have them have), pay leave, insurance, I mean we can really get into the weeds here. But like I’ve said here’s no need but you seem to always wanna go back to it.
You don’t have to work for Big 4, a national, or even a regional firm to make $120k+ bonuses after 5-years. I know this for a fact. Some of them do work like dogs, but many do not. M&A accountants make bank for example. Corproate accountants do well for themselves too.
You need 150 hours to sit for the CPA exam.
Right, looks like it varies by state where some states require 150 credit hours.
Then you have all the Stem fields that are an avenue predominantly for men to do well. I just don’t see this advantage for women.
Yes, men tend to make more for a variety of reasons and those reasons are shrinking either because of the market, or by forcing “inclusivity”. There is no field where people are screaming that we need more men outside of elementary/middle/high school education and usually only by people on the right.
This push for women in STEM and every single fucking field regardless of a need is painfully obvious… they’re even sticking women linesmen in the premier league for no real reason right @yorkshireiron
yeah you read some articles on how the women’s game was popular while all the men were at war and therefore the women’s game should have been just as popular after if it weren’t for those pesky men…
get the fuck out.
No. I attended actual football matches week in week out for over 2 decades.
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