I’m pretty new to TRT so this might be a dumb question… But I hear that scrotal cream can increase DHT a lot. I also hear that DHT opposes estrogen. Would it be possible to use a small amount of scrotal cream in conjunction with injections in order to control estrogen? I’ve tried AI’s and always felt good at first, then much worse. I’m wondering if increasing DHT might be a safer way of controlling e2? Any insight would be great, thanks!
You heard correct, T can go down other pathways, the T creams tend to convert to DHT which has a nice anti-estrogen affect. The creams also don’t affect SHBG much at all.
There is this one guy on another forum who couldn’t make injectable T work at all and felt like dog crap, the T cream was a game changer for him. Some guys just need that fluctuation in hormones to respond to TRT.
He had low SHBG as well. Sadly the T cream doesn’t work for everyone.
Pharmacokinetics of testosterone cream applied to scrotal skin.
There were no significant changes in serum estradiol over time after testosterone administration. We conclude that testosterone administration to scrotal skin is well tolerated and produces dose-dependent peak serum testosterone concentration with a much lower dose relative to the non-scrotal transdermal route.
I think a lot of men have this experience with AI’s, blocking estrogen isn’t the best idea. The same can be said for blocking DHT.
Thanks for the reply! Do you believe using a low dose of scrotal cream (say 1/2 or 1 click per day) in conjunction with my injection protocol could help to mitigate some of my estrogen issues?
I still had estrogen raise on me using scrotal cream only. As to if it actually caused any issues that is a different story. I went on an AI because doc told me to and that did cause issues. Yes it will raise DHT though, as I had my level at 268 with the top of the range being 86 or something like that.
I have seen men do this who don’t convert enough T->DHT on injections alone, but not to control estrogen, by doing both you might lose the benefit of creams lower estrogen control.
So what is the preferred way to control estrogen then for a high shbg guy who needs a larger dose? I’ve tried lowering dose and felt worse. I tried more frequent injections and felt worse. I tried AI and didn’t like it. I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Why are you trying to control estrogen and what are you calling ‘estrogen issues’?
If I may, please watch this and it will clear up some things for you:
High SHBG normally buffers against estrogen, don’t try to control estrogen, adjust your dosage. The estrogen hormone is the male hormone just as much as it is the female hormone. Without estrogen forget about erections, penile sensitivity and strong bones.
As if there is no such thing as testosterone issues, too much testosterone makes me very aggressive and wanting to rush a bull.
Nobody I know adjusts their dose by seeing an E2 lab result. We don’t measure it. You take the minimum amount of T required to resolve symptoms. E2 is irrelevant.
I’m already at 160mg per week. Do you suggest higher?
Yes, but I have already stated that I’ve tried varying doses and timing and I feel best with higher dose x2 a week. I’m not saying I want to crush my estrogen, but when it’s at 65 I don’t feel optimized.
Do you have recent labs on this protocol?
Not in the past few months. Going in for labs in 2 weeks. The last labs I did was 160mg/week on EOD protocol. I believe it was something like:
TT: 1150
FT: 19
E2: 62.
EOD didn’t seem to get my free T up as much as 2x/week.
Personally I’d bump up to 200 based on those labs and the fact you still have symptoms.
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Thanks for the input! It will be interesting to see when my new labs show. My next meeting with Dr. Saya is next month so I’ll have to wait until then.
Are you sure about this… transdermal t tends to convert to DHT at a far higher rate compared to injections… DHT has a far higher binding affinity to SHBG. Could you link some literature substantiating the claim creams don’t lower SHBG as much? Seriously, I’m curious if it’s actually true. Perhaps there’s a higher cmax of test + DHT with shots
I have studies that show no change in SHBG on scrotal T cream, until something else comes along and says different…
I have it on my home computer, I’ll get it posted later tonight for you. The scrotal T cream seem to be pro testosterone and DHT not affecting estrogen or SHBG much compared to injections.
If anything the injections are going to suppress SHBG where the creams won’t. I see this alot on Excelmale. I’ll post the name of the thread when I get home.
You might need a .125. I don’t like to suggest AIs but there may be no other way. You can get 0.050 AI as well from Hallandale.
Disagee entirely. Don’t touch the AI.