Screw the Poor

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them.

Half wrong.

Which half?
[/quote]
the half about not hearing of economic theories or models that deal with poverty. I can recall seeing any economic theory I haven’t heard of, outside of game theory.

fine I asked someone else that question

Let me try this again. You suggested I did not know how trade effected poverty becuase I asked the question. I am trying to tell you that I do understand how trade effect poverty. I was asking the question to see what how whoever I was asking would answer. Following? The outcome of my asking that quesiton is precisely what I expected.

[/quote]

42

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs.

We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.
…
You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.

I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai

I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

[/quote]

A bump for Beo wolf

43

[quote]dhickey wrote:

Let me try this again. You suggested I did not know how trade effected poverty becuase I asked the question. I am trying to tell you that I do understand how trade effect poverty. I was asking the question to see what how whoever I was asking would answer. Following? The outcome of my asking that quesiton is precisely what I expected.

[/quote]

You “expected” to hear the most basic theories given to the most basic questions… this is a very strange post.

Also, could you please take a moment or two more when your write your posts? Some of the above is almost impossible to read.

44

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Still makes no sense. You do realize you’re trying to defend an argument that says taxes are 100% voluntary, and if one doesn’t pay them one WILL NOT go to prison right?

I said not paying your taxes was a misdemeanor, and there are several civil remedies for someone that does not pay their taxes.[/quote]

…

I’ll level with you.

If I do not pay taxes, and I do not pay ANY fines or do ANY kind of labor as punishment, will I go to jail? Yes or no.

45

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:

Let me try this again. You suggested I did not know how trade effected poverty becuase I asked the question. I am trying to tell you that I do understand how trade effect poverty. I was asking the question to see what how whoever I was asking would answer. Following? The outcome of my asking that quesiton is precisely what I expected.

You “expected” to hear the most basic theories given to the most basic questions… this is a very strange post.

Also, could you please take a moment or two more when your write your posts? Some of the above is almost impossible to read. [/quote]

He was asking you the question with the implication that you didn’t know the answer. It was mostly rhetorical. The fact you couldn’t figure that out is kind of sad. Though this is the internet…

46

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs.

We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.
…
You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.

I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai

I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

A bump for Beo wolf
[/quote]

I kind of meant “since before the 30’s”. Not really IN the 30s <_<.

We’ve always had SOME manner of tariffs, but the markets have been FAR FAR more free than they have been this century (for the most part).

47

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:

Let me try this again. You suggested I did not know how trade effected poverty becuase I asked the question. I am trying to tell you that I do understand how trade effect poverty. I was asking the question to see what how whoever I was asking would answer. Following? The outcome of my asking that quesiton is precisely what I expected.

You “expected” to hear the most basic theories given to the most basic questions… this is a very strange post.

Also, could you please take a moment or two more when your write your posts? Some of the above is almost impossible to read. [/quote]

please.

48

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs.

We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.
…
You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.

I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai

I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

A bump for Beo wolf

I kind of meant “since before the 30’s”. Not really IN the 30s <_<.

We’ve always had SOME manner of tariffs, but the markets have been FAR FAR more free than they have been this century (for the most part).[/quote]

We agree

49

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Still makes no sense. You do realize you’re trying to defend an argument that says taxes are 100% voluntary, and if one doesn’t pay them one WILL NOT go to prison right?

I said not paying your taxes was a misdemeanor, and there are several civil remedies for someone that does not pay their taxes.

…

I’ll level with you.

If I do not pay taxes, and I do not pay ANY fines or do ANY kind of labor as punishment, will I go to jail? Yes or no.[/quote]

It is doubtful, if you ever acquire property, it may be in jeopardy

50

…And if I refuse to give up my property? I’m saying I absolutely refuse to give any kind of compensation. Period. I won’t let the government take a SINGLE penny or possession away from me. I tell the IRS to fuck the hell off when they come asking for it.

Will I, or will I not go to prison at the barrel of a gun?

51

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
…And if I refuse to give up my property? I’m saying I absolutely refuse to give any kind of compensation. Period. I won’t let the government take a SINGLE penny or possession away from me. I tell the IRS to fuck the hell off when they come asking for it.

Will I, or will I not go to prison at the barrel of a gun?[/quote]

I do not know, but I doubt the government would come asking for it unless they thought you had it, But if you took a confrontational approach they would probably consider you a threat and would probably Ruby Ridge you.

52

As a person who has been poor before I dont say FUCK THEM. I say give them the opportunity to better themselves…if they don’t want to then say FUCK THEM. I really don’t care how many ethnic minorities say they are oppressed here in America, if my 13th grade black ass can earn a living, ANYONE can, as long as they are willing to work hard and they have opportunities to better themselves.

53

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
…And if I refuse to give up my property? I’m saying I absolutely refuse to give any kind of compensation. Period. I won’t let the government take a SINGLE penny or possession away from me. I tell the IRS to fuck the hell off when they come asking for it.

Will I, or will I not go to prison at the barrel of a gun?

I do not know, but I doubt the government would come asking for it unless they thought you had it, But if you took a confrontational approach they would probably consider you a threat and would probably Ruby Ridge you.
[/quote]

Hence, taxes are taken at the barrel of a gun. Argument over. You lose.

54

You are all poor. Pay off your national debt.

55

[quote]jawara wrote:
As a person who has been poor before I dont say FUCK THEM. I say give them the opportunity to better themselves…if they don’t want to then say FUCK THEM. I really don’t care how many ethnic minorities say they are oppressed here in America, if my 13th grade black ass can earn a living, ANYONE can, as long as they are willing to work hard and they have opportunities to better themselves. [/quote]

I agree, I think oportunity is very important

56

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
…And if I refuse to give up my property? I’m saying I absolutely refuse to give any kind of compensation. Period. I won’t let the government take a SINGLE penny or possession away from me. I tell the IRS to fuck the hell off when they come asking for it.

Will I, or will I not go to prison at the barrel of a gun?

I do not know, but I doubt the government would come asking for it unless they thought you had it, But if you took a confrontational approach they would probably consider you a threat and would probably Ruby Ridge you.

Hence, taxes are taken at the barrel of a gun. Argument over. You lose.[/quote]

If they kill you they are guaranteed not to collect taxes, I believe they would rather put a lien on your property or garnish your wages or raid your bank account. I believe the only reason they would physically come after you is that you would oppose a threat they would treat you with violence. This is just my opinion

57

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Hence, taxes are taken at the barrel of a gun. Argument over. You lose.

If they kill you they are guaranteed not to collect taxes, I believe they would rather put a lien on your property or garnish your wages or raid your bank account. I believe the only reason they would physically come after you is that you would oppose a threat they would treat you with violence. This is just my opinion

[/quote]

In they end, they take it by FORCE. Anything that isn’t voluntarily is done by force. There is no gray area here. They can’t put a lien on my property or take money from me unless I let them (assuming I won my own business).

Therefore, they must FORCE me to give it to them if I refuse.

58

[quote]jawara wrote:
As a person who has been poor before I dont say FUCK THEM. I say give them the opportunity to better themselves…if they don’t want to then say FUCK THEM. I really don’t care how many ethnic minorities say they are oppressed here in America, if my 13th grade black ass can earn a living, ANYONE can, as long as they are willing to work hard and they have opportunities to better themselves. [/quote]

X2
I think the problem is they are not willing to work at all. It is easier to sit at home and collect your government subsidy than it is to work 60 hrs a week at a job you don’t like much. Me, I perfer to have the finer things in life. Like food, a car, a house,a cement pond, and a gym memebership.

59

[quote]danc2469 wrote:
jawara wrote:
As a person who has been poor before I dont say FUCK THEM. I say give them the opportunity to better themselves…if they don’t want to then say FUCK THEM. I really don’t care how many ethnic minorities say they are oppressed here in America, if my 13th grade black ass can earn a living, ANYONE can, as long as they are willing to work hard and they have opportunities to better themselves.

X2
I think the problem is they are not willing to work at all. It is easier to sit at home and collect your government subsidy than it is to work 60 hrs a week at a job you don’t like much. Me, I perfer to have the finer things in life. Like food, a car, a house,a cement pond, and a gym memebership.[/quote]

what if there are no jobs or they pay less than welfare ?

60

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
danc2469 wrote:
jawara wrote:
As a person who has been poor before I dont say FUCK THEM. I say give them the opportunity to better themselves…if they don’t want to then say FUCK THEM. I really don’t care how many ethnic minorities say they are oppressed here in America, if my 13th grade black ass can earn a living, ANYONE can, as long as they are willing to work hard and they have opportunities to better themselves.

X2
I think the problem is they are not willing to work at all. It is easier to sit at home and collect your government subsidy than it is to work 60 hrs a week at a job you don’t like much. Me, I perfer to have the finer things in life. Like food, a car, a house,a cement pond, and a gym memebership.

what if there are no jobs or they pay less than welfare ?[/quote]

There are always jobs and then welfare would be too high.