Screw the Poor

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
F uck the poor why don?t they get there own country, don?t they realize what a drain they are on our economy. I mean all they want is a free lunch and when we refuse to give it to them, and then they want a job that pays enough to live on, where do they get off.

I think what torks me off the worst is just think they want access to medical care for their little poor kids.just curios who agrees and who does not.

lol[/quote]

Thank you thank you very much

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head. And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them. I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.[/quote]

Again, irrational, illogical, and unreasonable bullshit. It so easy to spout of shit like this. It’s quite another to apply reason or logic to explain why this is indeed the case.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.

You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.
I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai
I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

[/quote]PB ,My great granpa quit paying taxes when he was in his 60’s ,yrs. earlier he had nothing put in his name anymore ,all in his sons. and had his cash stashed. When he was about 95-96 yr. old an IRS guy came to try and get money to which he replied ,put me in jail and feed me till i die. He smiled and said never heard from them anymore.He was used to dealing with the corrupt local gov’t all his life which has been controled by the GOP since 1800’s.He figured he would put their methods to use himself.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.

You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.
I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai
I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

[/quote]

So why exactly do rich people pay taxes? Why not just keep paying this petty fine you speak of (I’m assuming the misdemeanor comes with a fine)? Why pay taxes?

You realize most mobsters go down on unpaid taxes yes?

[quote]ron33 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.

You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.
I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai
I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

PB ,My great granpa quit paying taxes when he was in his 60’s ,yrs. earlier he had nothing put in his name anymore ,all in his sons. and had his cash stashed. When he was about 95-96 yr. old an IRS guy came to try and get money to which he replied ,put me in jail and feed me till i die. He smiled and said never heard from them anymore.He was used to dealing with the corrupt local gov’t all his life which has been controled by the GOP since 1800’s.He figured he would put their methods to use himself.
[/quote]

Your grandpa’s logic was that because the government was controlled by people who wanted to spend less he’d give them less money…

That’s actually pretty good logic.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head.[/QUOTE]
You’ve NEVER seen someone get arrested for not paying taxes!? Really!? What a sheltered life you live…

And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them.
Oh yes. Everyone knows exploiting people gets you on the customers A-list.

You don’t know much about economics do you?

I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

…Er no. We haven’t. Except, perhaps, in Ireland where there was a HUGE economic boom when they went free market, and in Hong Kong, one of the MOST capitalist and MOST successful countries in the world. Oh, and I suppose the boom (and the about to be HUGE boom) of Dubai.

America hasn’t had free markets since around the 30’/40’s.

Unless they have changed the law it is a misdemeanor not to file your taxes. I have heard of people getting arrested, but I do not know anyone personally. The stories I have heard of citizens being arrested for not paying taxes were usually stories that promoted that taxes were unconstitutional and, I believe the government had to make an example out of them.
I do believe to file a false return is a felony
I can not comment on Ireland, But Dubai is another story, every body that had their fingers in oil made money during the boom. A country like Dubai, needs to buy foreign goods because oil is all that is produced in Dubai
I do not know for sure, but I believe America was pretty isolationistic in the 30?s and 40?s

So why exactly do rich people pay taxes? Why not just keep paying this petty fine you speak of (I’m assuming the misdemeanor comes with a fine)? Why pay taxes?

You realize most mobsters go down on unpaid taxes yes?
[/quote]

Rich people pay their taxes because they had assets, and the smart mobsters did pay their taxes, through money laundries car washes were great launderers

[quote]dhickey wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head. And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them. I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

Again, irrational, illogical, and unreasonable bullshit. It so easy to spout of shit like this. It’s quite another to apply reason or logic to explain why this is indeed the case.[/quote]

What is irrational, you are the one taking the easy out by saying what I say is irrational,with no explaination. I think that is your standard rhetorical defense

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
dhickey wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head. And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them. I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

Again, irrational, illogical, and unreasonable bullshit. It so easy to spout of shit like this. It’s quite another to apply reason or logic to explain why this is indeed the case.

What is irrational, you are the one taking the easy out by saying what I say is irrational,with no explaination. I think that is your standard rhetorical defense

[/quote]PB ,I think Dickey does’nt understand what you are saying ,because he must not have dealt with the problems you speak of in his neighborhood.I grew up in southwest ohio,in what use to be a hard working ,safe place to make a living.there were machine tool, auto plants,breweries,steel plants,etc. with good paying jobs.it’s all gone now,and the place is turning into a crime ridden shit hole.jobs pay about half of what they used to with no benefits .even the good public service fire ,cop etc. are laying off and schools are getting ready to lay off teachers etc.Gee there’s no problem is there.this place started going down the tubes in the early to mid 80’s.thats also when we started seeing a large # of homeless people around here,when gov’t cut the funding for mental institutions and the people had no where to go but the streets.By the way i also lived in socal ,in late 70’s early 80’s same situation,went to dallas in mid 80’s ,same thing.The area in which i live had 6 yrs. when billy boy was prez ,that companies were actually needing more workers than they could get,and willing to pay,but then it all turned to shit again.???

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
What is irrational, you are the one taking the easy out by saying what I say is irrational,with no explaination. I think that is your standard rhetorical defense

[/quote]

Democrats are crazy assholes. Prove that this is irrational, illogical, or unreasonable. See how ridiculous this sounds?

You spout rhetoric with no fact or reason. That’s all I am pointing out.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
What is irrational, you are the one taking the easy out by saying what I say is irrational,with no explaination. I think that is your standard rhetorical defense

Democrats are crazy assholes. Prove that this is irrational, illogical, or unreasonable. See how ridiculous this sounds?

You spout rhetoric with no fact or reason. That’s all I am pointing out.[/quote]

that is irational

[quote]ron33 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
dhickey wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Er… I willingly help the poor. Fuck people who put a gun to my head and force me to help the poor, I say!

I personally have never seen some one putting a gun to some ones head. And my point is we do not want to give them a free lunch, we do not want to control industry to allow them a livable wage, we want to act their lack of motivation is all their fault, where if they did take a job some one else would lose theirs. We need industry; we need to control our market place. The free market will exploit their workers as well as the environment, as well as the customer if we do not demand better of them. I know it is imperfect, I know all the (Market knows best people) will say the market knows best. But we see the results of a free market.

Again, irrational, illogical, and unreasonable bullshit. It so easy to spout of shit like this. It’s quite another to apply reason or logic to explain why this is indeed the case.

What is irrational, you are the one taking the easy out by saying what I say is irrational,with no explaination. I think that is your standard rhetorical defense

PB ,I think Dickey does’nt understand what you are saying ,because he must not have dealt with the problems you speak of in his neighborhood.I grew up in southwest ohio,in what use to be a hard working ,safe place to make a living.there were machine tool, auto plants,breweries,steel plants,etc. with good paying jobs.it’s all gone now,and the place is turning into a crime ridden shit hole.jobs pay about half of what they used to with no benefits .even the good public service fire ,cop etc. are laying off and schools are getting ready to lay off teachers etc.Gee there’s no problem is there.this place started going down the tubes in the early to mid 80’s.thats also when we started seeing a large # of homeless people around here,when gov’t cut the funding for mental institutions and the people had no where to go but the streets.By the way i also lived in socal ,in late 70’s early 80’s same situation,went to dallas in mid 80’s ,same thing.The area in which i live had 6 yrs. when billy boy was prez ,that companies were actually needing more workers than they could get,and willing to pay,but then it all turned to shit again.???
[/quote]

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them. Despite his rather constant appeals for people to read about economics, he wouldn’t bother to read the models I laid before him. He actually asked (seriously I think), “how does trade affect poverty?”

That being said, I do disagree with the solutions PB is suggesting. I don’t think the govt should “control the market.” I think the role of govt is to provide trainings, safety nets, etc to smooth over economic transitions like the one the “rust belt” should be going though. Once competitive advantage in an industry is gone…it’s gone. But the people there have other competitive advantages that they can use to produce other things (generally higher ed = competitive advantage in more technical manufacturing or other “brainy” jobs).

[quote]ron33 wrote:
PB ,I think Dickey does’nt understand what you are saying ,because he must not have dealt with the problems you speak of in his neighborhood.I grew up in southwest ohio,in what use to be a hard working ,safe place to make a living.there were machine tool, auto plants,breweries,steel plants,etc. with good paying jobs.it’s all gone now,and the place is turning into a crime ridden shit hole.jobs pay about half of what they used to with no benefits .even the good public service fire ,cop etc. are laying off and schools are getting ready to lay off teachers etc.Gee there’s no problem is there.this place started going down the tubes in the early to mid 80’s.thats also when we started seeing a large # of homeless people around here,when gov’t cut the funding for mental institutions and the people had no where to go but the streets.By the way i also lived in socal ,in late 70’s early 80’s same situation,went to dallas in mid 80’s ,same thing.The area in which i live had 6 yrs. when billy boy was prez ,that companies were actually needing more workers than they could get,and willing to pay,but then it all turned to shit again.???
[/quote]

So? What do you propose is gov’t responsibility here? To guarantee people certain jobs of their choice? If so, I want to be a lesbian impregnator. Where do I sign up for my subsidy?

Is it gov’t responsibility to house the ill? Which gov’t? Fed, state, local? Why?

What do you think Billy boy did to magically create jobs? You do realize he signed NAFTA. I do believe BC was a better friend to the economy, in most respects, than GWB, but I am not sure what you think he did.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Making general statements and implications without providing any reason as to the cause or a solution. Non observational set of statements denoting nothing. What are we supposed to discuss here, that jobs are destroyed and created? I think we all know that. No job has been with us since the beginning of time. Many jobs have become obsolete.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them.
[/quote]
Half wrong.

wrong

[quote]
He actually asked (seriously I think), “how does trade affect poverty?”
[/qutoe]
I didn’t suggest trade had nothing to do with poverty. I was asking you for your theory. The outcome was precisely what I expected.

[quote]
That being said, I do disagree with the solutions PB is suggesting. I don’t think the govt should “control the market.” I think the role of govt is to provide trainings, safety nets, etc to smooth over economic transitions like the one the “rust belt” should be going though. Once competitive advantage in an industry is gone…it’s gone. But the people there have other competitive advantages that they can use to produce other things (generally higher ed = competitive advantage in more technical manufacturing or other “brainy” jobs). [/quote]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them.

Half wrong.

Despite his rather constant appeals for people to read about economics, he wouldn’t bother to read the models I laid before him.

wrong

He actually asked (seriously I think), “how does trade affect poverty?”
[/qutoe]
I didn’t suggest trade had nothing to do with poverty. I was asking you for your theory. The outcome was precisely what I expected.

That being said, I do disagree with the solutions PB is suggesting. I don’t think the govt should “control the market.” I think the role of govt is to provide trainings, safety nets, etc to smooth over economic transitions like the one the “rust belt” should be going though. Once competitive advantage in an industry is gone…it’s gone. But the people there have other competitive advantages that they can use to produce other things (generally higher ed = competitive advantage in more technical manufacturing or other “brainy” jobs).
[/quote]

I wonder if Hickey does not post too many posts to keep track of his train of thought and to give each post serious consideration. He does not answer many questions, all he does is gives some caned answer that would work on any question. Just to return a serve. Every once in a while you see a truly intelligent thought.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them.

Half wrong.

Despite his rather constant appeals for people to read about economics, he wouldn’t bother to read the models I laid before him.

wrong

He actually asked (seriously I think), “how does trade affect poverty?”
[/qutoe]
I didn’t suggest trade had nothing to do with poverty. I was asking you for your theory. The outcome was precisely what I expected.

That being said, I do disagree with the solutions PB is suggesting. I don’t think the govt should “control the market.” I think the role of govt is to provide trainings, safety nets, etc to smooth over economic transitions like the one the “rust belt” should be going though.

Once competitive advantage in an industry is gone…it’s gone. But the people there have other competitive advantages that they can use to produce other things (generally higher ed = competitive advantage in more technical manufacturing or other “brainy” jobs).

I wonder if Hickey does not post too many posts to keep track of his train of thought and to give each post serious consideration. He does not answer many questions, all he does is gives some caned answer that would work on any question. Just to return a serve. Every once in a while you see a truly intelligent thought.
[/quote]

You’re a moron. I am done with you. You have no appetite for logic and reason and I have no appetite for people with no appetite for logic and reason. You have yet to explain any of your statement by working through them logically. I dout you ever will, so I give up.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Rich people pay their taxes because they had assets, and the smart mobsters did pay their taxes, through money laundries car washes were great launderers [/quote]

This makes so little sense it is painful.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:

You’re right, in the “ghetto” thread, dhickey demonstrated that he had neither experienced these problems…or even heard of the economic theories/models that deal with them.

Half wrong.
[/quote]

Which half?

[quote]
Despite his rather constant appeals for people to read about economics, he wouldn’t bother to read the models I laid before him.

wrong

He actually asked (seriously I think), “how does trade affect poverty?”
[/qutoe]

I didn’t suggest trade had nothing to do with poverty. I was asking you for your theory. The outcome was precisely what I expected.[/quote]

You’re confused. You weren’t asking me anything, you were talking with someone else. Regardless, this is still strange, of course someone would post common-sense economic theories that answer basic economic questions…what are you trying to say?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

Rich people pay their taxes because they had assets, and the smart mobsters did pay their taxes, through money laundries car washes were great launderers

This makes so little sense it is painful.[/quote]

"So why exactly do rich people pay taxes? Why not just keep paying this petty fine you speak of (I’m assuming the misdemeanor comes with a fine)? Why pay taxes?

You realize most mobsters go down on unpaid taxes yes? "

the question

Rich people pay their taxes because they had assets, and the smart mobsters did pay their taxes, through money laundries car washes were great launderers

It makes more sense when you post (the Question)

Still makes no sense. You do realize you’re trying to defend an argument that says taxes are 100% voluntary, and if one doesn’t pay them one WILL NOT go to prison right?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Still makes no sense. You do realize you’re trying to defend an argument that says taxes are 100% voluntary, and if one doesn’t pay them one WILL NOT go to prison right?[/quote]

I said not paying your taxes was a misdemeanor, and there are several civil remedies for someone that does not pay their taxes.