I don’t understand why we preach that when a program is working for a lifter, then they should stick with it, even if it isn’t optimal. Yet for some reason, if your training session goes for 90 minutes and it’s working for you - then not only should you change it, you should go to lengths like changing your gym to force it into 90 minutes. If not then you’re a lazy excuse making fuck.
Guess we need a guru to write about it before it’s accepted.
[quote]mutantcolors wrote:
Fucking excuses.[/quote]
I often take a long time in the gym. 2 hours here and there. I’ve also squatted 585. What’s your best?
[quote]tsantos wrote:
I don’t understand why we preach that when a program is working for a lifter, then they should stick with it, even if it isn’t optimal. [/quote]
Are you sure? I thought we normally tell them to switch to The Texas Method.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]tsantos wrote:
I don’t understand why we preach that when a program is working for a lifter, then they should stick with it, even if it isn’t optimal. [/quote]
Are you sure? I thought we normally tell them to switch to The Texas Method.[/quote]
No no. It’s 5/3/1. Everyone should do 5/3/1.
41yo, working out over 25years now.
Tried everything in these years, from very frequent short sessions (30-45minutes) to twice a week long sessions (1h15-1h30).
Has all been the same for me.
Combining with family, social life and business, working out less frequently is easier of course.
Now I do twice a week full body (10min warm up + 45min intense 6x6work + 20-30min isolation/ab-work, totaling 1h15-1h30) and once a shorter (45min) (HI)workout being complexes and carries.
I engaged in a similar debate last weekend at a dinner party.
The idiot who took the ‘all-workouts-MUST-last-no-longer-than-an-hour’ stance was easy to pawn. His arguments were just some cliches he probably read in some blog or magazine.
So when I got the notification regarding this old thread, I figured I’d stop by and revisit.
It NEVER FAILS to amaze me those who insist on slavishly obeying guidelines are almost always the scrawny punks.
Just as it never fails to amaze me that lifters who make me say “Damn impressive, Bro - let’s talk shop” are not afraid to have short workouts, moderate ones, or long ones. We know when to bend the rules to suit our needs.
Life and logistics and even physiological fluctuations often dictate certain workouts can AND should go over the sixty-minute mark.
I’m not going to coddle anyone and explain when the longer workouts should take place. With experience - and that’s the key fucking word - you’ll be able to make that determination.
I will say longer sessions are best if you’re in a caloric surplus, well hydrated, glycogen stores topped off, and willing to guzzle down intra-workout nutrition. You don’t have to buy the Gucci shit - just do your due diligence and find what works for you for the least amount of coin.
Also it helps if you can schedule quality sleep the night before and after. Next week, I’m catching an early morning flight. With all the security checks in place now, I’ll have to arrive 2-3 hours PRIOR to my departure time. I’ll be lucky to get five hours sleep the night before (simply going to bed early doesn’t work for me). So - obviously - any workout I do the day before the flight will be abbreviated. And if the hotel has a half-decent gym, again, any workout I do will be abbreviated.
Life and logistics and even physiological fluctuations often dictate if and when certain workouts can go longer.
Experience will tell you when this is a decision that can help your goals or just waste your time (and possibly risk injury).
And guess fucking what? Experience canNOT be taught. You have to earn it.
So fuck no, after reading my older posts in this thread, I see no need to offer any mea culpa on my original stance because it hasn’t changed.
Fucking poetry 
Interesting!
But what was Arnolds and Zane’s day like? It was probably 3-8 short or long sessions of 15-25+ min each in that 5 hour workout…
Thoughts?.
Didn’t they spend a lot of time on the beach and train in front of a crowd of people in there prime?
No matter how long you’re in the gym, you should be damn near on the floor from the intensity of your workout. Change your shit up also, shock your muscles. Example; lift heavy as fuck for the first 3 or 4 set, then run the rack on your last set. Everyone is different, but that works for me
That sounds like a good way to fuck up and get injured.
[sarcasm]SCIENCE!!! If science says it’s so, it must be so![/sarcasm]
I’m not familiar with studies regarding training session times, but keep in mind that individual studies have whopping restraints and conditions. You really need a body of high quality and robust scientific studies to be able to draw any solid conclusions. This doesn’t happen in the USofA too too often because the money isn’t there. This is why the soviets were able to figure so much out. Their athletic programs were state sponsored so they had the resources and will to dump money into many studies over populations. Even then, those studies were designed to figure out optimal training methodologies for people whom training was literally their job.
The individual studies can be interesting and can be something to keep in the back of your head to see if old training styles intuitively used them and to see if more studies replicate the findings, but it’s better just to find the clues and similarities of many people successful in a particular area.
Just my thoughts based on personal experience from training as a “hobby” for years, and more recently getting on stage, I’ve gone in phases of shorter workouts (45-60 minutes) all the way to very long work outs (2-2.5 hours), so here’s what I’ve come to learn about myself based from these experiences, which may or may not be applicable to others.
Firstly, I’m not sure there is an “optimal” workout time, because anything you do for long enough, you’ll adapt to and it won’t be optimal anymore. I think anyone who says if you workout longer than 60 minutes you’re not gaining or have passed the point of diminishing returns need a lesson under some iron with a good few plates on each side, and has probably never done so. But, I also think that if you continuously workout for very long sessions, eventually you’ll need to change something.
My favorite program is a typical 4 or 5 day bodybuilding split, these workouts take 60-90 minutes depending on the muscle group, and this includes warm up sets with possibly a little foam rolling for legs before I start. I don’t think I’ve EVER finished a workout in 45 minutes or less, ever, and really don’t know how you could do a workout in that amount of time, unless you’re very specifically training one muscle group and are moving incredibly fast, and maybe skipping warm up sets. I’m not saying it’s not possible, I just can’t imagine doing it myself. During these workouts there is always some heavy compound movement time, some isolation time, some drop sets and such, and usually 1:15 to 1:30 later, I’m done. When I started in the gym, my first training program’s were CT’s Indigo Hypertrophy Programs, which certainly take more than an hour, so I just got used to longer workouts.
Out of necessity with my schedule, there have been other times I’ve run a 3x per week full body program, based on Leroy Colbert’s method from this article, “Full Body Workouts of the Legends”. This was 6 sets per muscle group, plus I’d add some calves or abs at the end, totaling about 45 working sets. Some compound movements, and an isolation exercise for each muscle group. I’d make an “A,B,C” workout and rotate exercises each day. These usually took no less than 2 hours to complete due to warm up sets for each muscle group, and overall high volume. I had some serious gains on this program, but also fueled up accordingly with a Finibar and 3 scoops of Plazma, totaling 160g carbs and about 900 calories just for the workout. I’d also say that anyone who told me I wasn’t training with enough intensity if my workouts took that long should try to hang with me during one of those sessions, so I can step over their limp, lifeless bodies after they pass out and I’m still working. Even still, after a while (about 5 months) I really needed a change. Which brings me to my next point, again based on my personal experience only and my body.
In my opinion, a “long” workout is longer than 75-90 minutes, a “short” workout would be anything less. I think both long and short workouts can be extremely beneficial, and of course it matters what you do in that time frame, and also how you fuel up for them. If you’re doing a long workout, you better have your pre, peri and post workout nutrition in line. If you don’t, there’s no doubt you’ll only dig yourself further into a hole with your metabolism, cortisol and limited gains. Even if you do fuel up accordingly, as with anything, eventually your body will adapt, so where as “long workouts” might give you some great gains at first, the more you do them, the more efficient you’ll become, until you’ll probably want to change up for shorter workouts with more compound movements and focus on strength or something similar.
I disagree, sounds like broscience to me. Feeling like you’re about to die is not necessarily indicative of a good workout. Again, sometimes it might be what you’re going for, but I think in terms of constant gains and longevity, I think you should concentrate more on muscle contraction and performance of the exercise, and less on feeling like you’re about to hit the floor. If I’m going in for an abs, biceps and triceps workout, I’m not exactly trying to kill myself with intensity. If I’m going for heavy squats, that’s a different story. We’ve all seen people in the gym that are certainly intense and not doing a damn thing right. Again there will be times when intensity is key, like a HIIT workout, but that shouldn’t be a measure of success.
Ultimately, looking up scientific references to anything bodybuilding or training related won’t provide a ton of info as research isn’t very extensive, AND, more importantly, what matters most is if it works for YOU. For example, I’ll again reference Leroy Colbert who no doubt was an incredible bodybuilder and trained in full body sessions with crazy high volume, then you’ve got a got like Dorian Yates, obviously one of the best ever, who trained with minimal working sets, sometimes working up to just 2 working sets for an exercise. If you really want to see how long workouts, or anything affects you, then try it for a while. Plan your nutrition smartly, be objective about your results, and ultimately be sure to never do the same exact thing for TOO long, because no matter what type of program or the length of your sessions, your body will adapt and it’ll be time for a change.