School Shooting in Connecticut

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

They point out on the website what I meant by subjective crap. How well you do on the test depends heavily on the surroundings you have been subjected to. For example, if you take someone that hasn’t had exposure to modern society they may be very intelligent but fail miserably on the test.
[/quote]

I’ve also noticed that one given person taking a test from the same testing organization can get two scores that appear different enough to be statistically significant. This seems especially true the older the test-taker is (which might be why ‘real’ IQ tests are generally only given to fairly little kids).

I would suggest that anything from daily stress, sleep quality, and nutrition (such as blood sugar) might be enough to throw off your score.

There are those who hold to the infallible purity of the IQ test who will disagree, but if one were to actually try this out on oneself, the results might surprise even the purists.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Strictly on the topic of arming teachers, I would say you’d just be transferring the killings from spree shooters to over zealous teachers acting in what they perceived to be “self-defense.”

Hormonal Teens are unruly. Just ask George Zimmerman.

[/quote]

In the lead-up to the election I thought teachers were the greatest thing since sliced bread and grossly underpaid. Now suddenly, they are all too stupid to be trusted to protect themselves and the kids they teach. Funny.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Anyway I heard Einstein was like 4000 or something. [/quote]

He has the hair.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve aged, I’ve kind of come to take some pride in being pretty successful in life despite having only a high average IQ.[/quote]

Why?

This is the IQ range where most succesfull people are.

Not saying that you should not be proud, most people in that range dont make itz either, but if if you are around a 7-8 Iq wise you have pretty much hit the sweet spot career wise.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Strictly on the topic of arming teachers, I would say you’d just be transferring the killings from spree shooters to over zealous teachers acting in what they perceived to be “self-defense.”

Hormonal Teens are unruly. Just ask George Zimmerman.

[/quote]

I have some mixed feelings about the whole armed teacher idea, despite having suggested it myself.

However, if you believe that the only reason our kids are not being shot by their teachers is that the teachers don’t happen to have guns on hand, I really don’t know what to tell you.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve aged, I’ve kind of come to take some pride in being pretty successful in life despite having only a high average IQ.[/quote]

Why?

This is the IQ range where most succesfull people are.

Not saying that you should not be proud, most people in that range dont make itz either, but if if you are around a 7-8 Iq wise you have pretty much hit the sweet spot career wise.

[/quote]

I didn’t know that. I just assumed higher IQ = more success.[/quote]

Lets say you are around 150 or so.

How to you talk to customers?

How do you talk to your employees?

How do you, God forbid, talk to a boss of average intelligence?

You might find a rewarding career in molecular biology or some such (does that even exist?) but sales for example is pretty much out of the question.

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Strictly on the topic of arming teachers, I would say you’d just be transferring the killings from spree shooters to over zealous teachers acting in what they perceived to be “self-defense.”

Hormonal Teens are unruly. Just ask George Zimmerman.

[/quote]

In the lead-up to the election I thought teachers were the greatest thing since sliced bread and grossly underpaid. Now suddenly, they are all too stupid to be trusted to protect themselves and the kids they teach. Funny.
[/quote]

glad to live up in the great white north where this shit isn’t a problem for us st00pd teachrz. w3 d0nt n33d nO gunz to prot3cT areselfs and our stoodents

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Strictly on the topic of arming teachers, I would say you’d just be transferring the killings from spree shooters to over zealous teachers acting in what they perceived to be “self-defense.”

Hormonal Teens are unruly. Just ask George Zimmerman.

[/quote]

In the lead-up to the election I thought teachers were the greatest thing since sliced bread and grossly underpaid. Now suddenly, they are all too stupid to be trusted to protect themselves and the kids they teach. Funny.
[/quote]

Funny, I don’t recall making any statements on how teachers are compensated.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

However, if you believe that the only reason our kids are not being shot by their teachers is that the teachers don’t happen to have guns on hand, I really don’t know what to tell you.[/quote]

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

The equation changes in the presence of a gun. Teachers will have less incentive to deescalate situations when conflicts arise with unruly students.

Let me give you an example. It’s been shown that less incidents occur when officers are put in cars by themselves versus being partnered with another officer. Why? When two cops are partnered together, they are more likely to act brazen, take bigger risks.

The same holds true with drivers. They’ll take bigger risks on the road, display offensive driving patterns the bigger the Vehicle. In fact, an Extra 1,000 Pounds Increases Crash Fatalities by 47%.

So you see, in my opinion arming teachers will not improve anything. It will merely shift deaths from over-medicated two somethings to over-zealous teachers trying to put an unruly student “in his place”.

Still cracks me up all the " guns are evil" people have no problems calling strangers with guns to come protect them when shit happens.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Strictly on the topic of arming teachers, I would say you’d just be transferring the killings from spree shooters to over zealous teachers acting in what they perceived to be “self-defense.”

Hormonal Teens are unruly. Just ask George Zimmerman.

[/quote]

In the lead-up to the election I thought teachers were the greatest thing since sliced bread and grossly underpaid. Now suddenly, they are all too stupid to be trusted to protect themselves and the kids they teach. Funny.
[/quote]

Funny, I don’t recall making any statements on how teachers are compensated.

[/quote]

I wasn’t saying that specifically to you. Just a general thought on how the media portrayed teachers in one light to serve their purpose and now the opposite to once again suit their new purpose.

[quote]four60 wrote:
Still cracks me up all the " guns are evil" people have no problems calling strangers with guns to come protect them when shit happens.[/quote]

Well guns aren’t sacred either.

Remember, if humans were perfect we wouldn’t need guns.

Shit is pretty much about culture. You either ban guns or arm everyone (realistically achieved by allowing everyone the right to own a firearm and encouraging ownership). The former is exemplified by low gun violence in the Commonwealth and the latter evidenced by the states in the USA that have little to no gun ownership restrictions

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

However, if you believe that the only reason our kids are not being shot by their teachers is that the teachers don’t happen to have guns on hand, I really don’t know what to tell you.[/quote]

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

The equation changes in the presence of a gun. Teachers will have less incentive to deescalate situations when conflicts arise with unruly students.

Let me give you an example. It’s been shown that less incidents occur when officers are put in cars by themselves versus being partnered with another officer. Why? When two cops are partnered together, they are more likely to act brazen, take bigger risks.

The same holds true with drivers. They’ll take bigger risks on the road, display offensive driving patterns the bigger the Vehicle. In fact, an Extra 1,000 Pounds Increases Crash Fatalities by 47%.

So you see, in my opinion arming teachers will not improve anything. It will merely shift deaths from over-medicated two somethings to over-zealous teachers trying to put an unruly student “in his place”.

[/quote]

Like I said, I have mixed feelings about the whole armed teachers concept to say the least. In any workable framework in my mind it would need to entail some meaningful vetting and training process beyond basic firearms safety to be remotely viable.

That said, I still don’t follow your logic. The whole less “incentive to deescalate” line just doesn’t hold water for me. I just don’t see an otherwise rational, stable, professional person thinking of “fuck talkin to this kid. Imma shoot his ass instead” as a viable option simply because you add a gun to the mix.

Regarding single officers vs. partners: if that stat is accurate I think correlation vs. causality is a question. Do you imagine that dispatchers would try to send multiple officers to attend calls where incidents are more likely to take place? Seems plausible to me.

Similarly the driving analogy: is it possible that more aggressive, less considerate drivers may gravitate toward larger vehicles as opposed to conservative drivers get in bigger vehicles and suddenly decide it’s hit-to-pass out there?

Tragedies notwithstanding we, as a species, are generally very reticent to shoot one another. The likelihood that teachers are going to start shooting students to “put them in their place” for being unruly is pretty remote. Of course it is a consideration, it’s just far from the certainty you make it out to be, in my opinion.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You either ban guns or arm everyone [/quote]

Well arming everyone is stupid, considering that most people are fucking idiots and/or care for no one else other than themselves.
The only people that should have guns are those that are educated (in general, and about firearms) and have a healthy mental background, i.e. make people get/work for a damned gun license.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
As I’ve aged, I’ve kind of come to take some pride in being pretty successful in life despite having only a high average IQ.[/quote]

I can relate. I’ve come to take some pride in being pretty succesful in life while having an extraordinarily high IQ. (^^)v

[quote]batman730 wrote:

That said, I still don’t follow your logic. The whole less “incentive to deescalate” line just doesn’t hold water for me. I just don’t see an otherwise rational, stable, professional person thinking of “fuck talkin to this kid. Imma shoot his ass instead” as a viable option simply because you add a gun to the mix. [/quote]

There are how many teachers in the US? at least 100,000+? It’s hard for you to believe that all these teachers aren’t all rational actors and even the ones that are do not act 100% rational all the time? People act less rational when emotions are ramped up.

I’m not sure what is so far fetched.

Kid threatens

teacher gives half hearted effort to deescalate in hopes troubled kid (with previous incidents) continues to test

Kid continues

teacher pulls out gun

kid continues to test teacher

teacher shoots

[quote]batman730 wrote:

Regarding single officers vs. partners: if that stat is accurate I think correlation vs. causality is a question. Do you imagine that dispatchers would try to send multiple officers to attend calls where incidents are more likely to take place? Seems plausible to me. [/quote]

No.

That’s not what the study said and the numbers are too far apart for your theory to hold.

"The FBI collected information for a period from January 1960 to September 1962 and found that in American cities deploying both types of vehicles, 65% of the officers killed while on duty killed were in two-officer vehicles while only 35% were in one-officer vehicles.xiii This statistic seems to indicate that the presence of a second officer does not guarantee personal safety.

Studies have also found that officers who work alone do not have a higher risk of injury. A study done in San Diego compared the effectiveness of one- and two-officer vehicles.xiv Their study concluded that one-officer cars are more cost-effective and at least as safe as two-officer cars.

It is also often argued that an officer working alone is less likely to act without caution than is the same officer working with a partner.xv Eastman, for example, argues that the presence of a second officer may serve to discourage caution. Pride prevents the second officer from prudently assessing danger or taking suitable precautions, for fear that one’s partner may interpret the caution as cowardice.xvi

Researchers have also found that working with a second officer may lead to careless behaviour. Wilson, for one, argues that carelessness is the greatest killer of police officers.xvii"

http://www.fcpp.org/publication.php/178

[quote]batman730 wrote:

Similarly the driving analogy: is it possible that more aggressive, less considerate drivers may gravitate toward larger vehicles as opposed to conservative drivers get in bigger vehicles and suddenly decide it’s hit-to-pass out there?
[/quote]

Maybe to an extent, but still overall no.

Even when cars see bicyclists on the road, they’re more likely to cut it closer in passing them them when they’re wearing helmets. The increased perceived safety directly affects their actions.

It shows up the in the NFL as well. I heard an interview a while back where a player was saying that the introduction of modern helmets has completely changed how the game is played. Players would not willingly missile their bodies head first into other players in the absence of a helmet.

When there is a perceived higher level of safety, humans many times will take more risks, act less cautious. I believe the same would hold true with teachers in the presence of a gun, especially if ALL teachers were mandated to carry as proposed.

I never realized so many people actually got their IQ tested. I always assumed those things were more or less bullshit lol.