School Shooting in Connecticut

Off Topic
641

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I’ve seen studies that suggested a group of students with IQs between the range of 140-150 performed better in nearly every aspect. Athletically, emotionally, socially, and of course academically. I was in a college prep school with these geniuses too and they were very down to earth, sensible, and amicable.

I’m just not buying into that one.

The deal with a criminally violent smart person is that they are capable of doing so much more harm. If you’ve ever known anyone that’s worked in a prison or do it yourself, you quickly realize that most criminals are… well… dumb.

The most violent IQ range is actually 75-90. That is if it’s not from some sort of disability and they just got there because that happened to be where they fell on the bell curve. [/quote]

I was speaking from personal experience.

And in my personal experience yes, they are “very down to earth, sensible, and amicable”, specially in their own “pond”.
And you can absolutely intellectualize emotions and appear emotionally grounded and sound.

That does not mean one is capable of a profound bond of love, or even that one will be able to bond with one’s children.

I was not speaking about violence at all.

I was speaking about a profound capacity for love: emotional intimacy ( Between one’s four walls: with one’s partner and children ).

On the note of violence: wasn’t Hitler very intelligent or is that fiction?

[/quote]
No offence but it sounds like you are just making stuff up.

642

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I’ve seen studies that suggested a group of students with IQs between the range of 140-150 performed better in nearly every aspect. Athletically, emotionally, socially, and of course academically. I was in a college prep school with these geniuses too and they were very down to earth, sensible, and amicable.

I’m just not buying into that one.

The deal with a criminally violent smart person is that they are capable of doing so much more harm. If you’ve ever known anyone that’s worked in a prison or do it yourself, you quickly realize that most criminals are… well… dumb.

The most violent IQ range is actually 75-90. That is if it’s not from some sort of disability and they just got there because that happened to be where they fell on the bell curve. [/quote]

I was speaking from personal experience.

And in my personal experience yes, they are “very down to earth, sensible, and amicable”, specially in their own “pond”.
And you can absolutely intellectualize emotions and appear emotionally grounded and sound.

That does not mean one is capable of a profound bond of love, or even that one will be able to bond with one’s children.

I was not speaking about violence at all.

I was speaking about a profound capacity for love: emotional intimacy ( Between one’s four walls: with one’s partner and children ).

On the note of violence: wasn’t Hitler very intelligent or is that fiction?

[/quote]
No offence but it sounds like you are just making stuff up.[/quote]

Obviously you’ve never hung out with engineers.

643

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I’ve seen studies that suggested a group of students with IQs between the range of 140-150 performed better in nearly every aspect. Athletically, emotionally, socially, and of course academically. I was in a college prep school with these geniuses too and they were very down to earth, sensible, and amicable.

I’m just not buying into that one.

The deal with a criminally violent smart person is that they are capable of doing so much more harm. If you’ve ever known anyone that’s worked in a prison or do it yourself, you quickly realize that most criminals are… well… dumb.

The most violent IQ range is actually 75-90. That is if it’s not from some sort of disability and they just got there because that happened to be where they fell on the bell curve. [/quote]

I was speaking from personal experience.

And in my personal experience yes, they are “very down to earth, sensible, and amicable”, specially in their own “pond”.
And you can absolutely intellectualize emotions and appear emotionally grounded and sound.

That does not mean one is capable of a profound bond of love, or even that one will be able to bond with one’s children.

I was not speaking about violence at all.

I was speaking about a profound capacity for love: emotional intimacy ( Between one’s four walls: with one’s partner and children ).

On the note of violence: wasn’t Hitler very intelligent or is that fiction?

[/quote]
No offence but it sounds like you are just making stuff up.[/quote]

Obviously you’ve never hung out with engineers.[/quote]

Actually I am sitting next to 2 of them.

644

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I’ve seen studies that suggested a group of students with IQs between the range of 140-150 performed better in nearly every aspect. Athletically, emotionally, socially, and of course academically. I was in a college prep school with these geniuses too and they were very down to earth, sensible, and amicable.

I’m just not buying into that one.

The deal with a criminally violent smart person is that they are capable of doing so much more harm. If you’ve ever known anyone that’s worked in a prison or do it yourself, you quickly realize that most criminals are… well… dumb.

The most violent IQ range is actually 75-90. That is if it’s not from some sort of disability and they just got there because that happened to be where they fell on the bell curve. [/quote]

I was speaking from personal experience.

And in my personal experience yes, they are “very down to earth, sensible, and amicable”, specially in their own “pond”.
And you can absolutely intellectualize emotions and appear emotionally grounded and sound.

That does not mean one is capable of a profound bond of love, or even that one will be able to bond with one’s children.

I was not speaking about violence at all.

I was speaking about a profound capacity for love: emotional intimacy ( Between one’s four walls: with one’s partner and children ).

On the note of violence: wasn’t Hitler very intelligent or is that fiction?

[/quote]
No offence but it sounds like you are just making stuff up.[/quote]

Obviously you’ve never hung out with engineers.[/quote]

Have you hung out with highly intelligent Literature students/professors or poly sci ones?

645

As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way.

646

[quote]debraD wrote:

Actually I am sitting next to 2 of them.
[/quote]

How’d you like to sit next to a bit-duller-than-average trader?

647

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?

648

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Why don’t we just imprison and/or execute the intellectuals to make society a safer place?

649

My mom sent this to me in a chain email earlier. It didn’t say who wrote it, but it’s a tear jerker…

Sandy Hook Elementary School

Twas’ 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
When 20 beautiful children stormed through Heaven’s gate.
Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
They were filled with such joy; they didn’t know what to say.
They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
“Where are we?” asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse.
“This is heaven” declared a small boy. “We’re spending Christmas at God’s house”.
When what to their wondering eyes did appear,
But Jesus, their Savior, the children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
Then He opened His arms and He called them by name.
And in that moment was joy, that only Heaven can bring
Those children all flew into the arms of their King.
And as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
One small girl turned and looked at Jesus’ face.
And as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, “I’ll take care of Mom and Dad.”
Then He looked down on Earth, at the world far below
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe.
Then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!
May this country be delivered from the hands of fools
"I’m taking back my nation. I’m taking back my schools! "
Then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"Come now my children let me show you around. "
Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran.
All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
“In the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT.”

650

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

In one respect or another yes.

651

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

Well, if they don’t consider themselves or the victims to actually be “real” – in the “it’s all just a dream” sense caused by dissociation – then they could be both intellectually developed and emotionally developed, but be unable to connect their external experience with a genuine emotional response.

Probably the closest analogy would be that of people playing first-person shooters. If they were shooting someone in real life, the emotional response would be entirely different than it is in the game, because the game isn’t “real”. Now, imagine if a person in real life saw the world you and I see, but didn’t perceive it to be “real”.

This is what happens with dissociative disorders, and with derealization/depersonalization; both of the last two are symptoms of anxiety.

652

[quote]therajraj wrote:

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

By dehumanizing their intended victims to the point where it’s acceptable to sane people. So called spree shooters don’t belong in the same bracket. The emotional winter that follows the slaughter of kids in a safe environment IS a show of empathy in that the shooter knows how people will react.

It’s about being a martyr to their own cause and finding a ship they can take down with them.

653

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

Actually I am sitting next to 2 of them.
[/quote]

How’d you like to sit next to a bit-duller-than-average trader?
[/quote]

Couldn’t be any worse than the engineers! =D

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

Are you implying that violence has something to do with stupidity? Or that stupid violent people don’t know what they’re doing?

Some people are violent due to frustration. Others are due to emotional pain. Some others are sociopathic. I think this shooter was out to punish others. The shooter at my high school failed physics and wasn’t going to make it to medical school. Not exactly a rocket scientist.

I don’t know how much you can put into the intelligence of this guy anyhow. All I’ve heard is he took a few college courses and had a 3.25 GPA as a teenager. That’s not exactly genius level.

654

Are you guys…And gals really trying to define Evil?

Sometimes people do fucked up shit for no other reason than they knew they could.

A person who has not been trained from birth to understand or deal with feelings will make up rules for themselves

655

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

Actually I am sitting next to 2 of them.
[/quote]

How’d you like to sit next to a bit-duller-than-average trader?
[/quote]

Couldn’t be any worse than the engineers! =D

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

Are you implying that violence has something to do with stupidity? Or that stupid violent people don’t know what they’re doing?

Some people are violent due to frustration. Others are due to emotional pain. Some others are sociopathic. I think this shooter was out to punish others. The shooter at my high school failed physics and wasn’t going to make it to medical school. Not exactly a rocket scientist.

I don’t know how much you can put into the intelligence of this guy anyhow. All I’ve heard is he took a few college courses and had a 3.25 GPA as a teenager. That’s not exactly genius level. [/quote]

I’m going to put my armchair psychology to work and say he was probably of average intelligent with parents and a family who expected more of him than he was able to produce. He had social issues and these were never properly addressed. The combination of over-achieving parents and inability to relate to his peers made for one angry individual.

656

[quote]four60 wrote:
Are you guys…And gals really trying to define Evil?

Sometimes people do fucked up shit for no other reason than they knew they could.

A person who has not been trained from birth to understand or deal with feelings will make up rules for themselves[/quote]

I don’t know. That sounds like a good definition of evil to me. Evil is the ability for a person to do fucked up shit without remorse because they can.

657

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
As far as the Hitler deal, I just wonder how come everytime a person brings up generalities, everyone wants to bring up the exception.

And I already said that a violent smart person is far more dangerous because of their wit. Because of the destruction a smart violent person causes with they do their voilent thing, it will be publicized much more and you will hear more about it than the slightly stupid criminal who raped a woman and stole her purse on the alley way. [/quote]

Wouldn’t you say the violent smart person would have to be emotionally underdeveloped?

How can someone with high intelligence carry out an atrocious act and not consider the emotional trauma they are causing to victim and their families?
[/quote]

Well, if they don’t consider themselves or the victims to actually be “real” – in the “it’s all just a dream” sense caused by dissociation – then they could be both intellectually developed and emotionally developed, but be unable to connect their external experience with a genuine emotional response.

Probably the closest analogy would be that of people playing first-person shooters. If they were shooting someone in real life, the emotional response would be entirely different than it is in the game, because the game isn’t “real”. Now, imagine if a person in real life saw the world you and I see, but didn’t perceive it to be “real”.

This is what happens with dissociative disorders, and with derealization/depersonalization; both of the last two are symptoms of anxiety.[/quote]

I had very high DP and DR before as a by product of heightened anxiety, It is true that it cuts your emotional response from the brain and makes you feel basically that you were wiped of feeling different things but that is simply because of a protective mechanism of the brain… For me it blocked me from feeling things like dopamine and generally just leaves you very detached…

However it DOES NOT cause someone to act out atrocious crimes and things such as that… It is just your brain shutting you down to keep you safe… It happens for alot of people in periods of greiving over lost loved ones, break ups, victims of trauma, war etc… For me it was simply just a side effect of a heightened anxious state…

It is also a side effect of schizophrenia though… DP and DR do not cause people to do things out of their character… It is usually derived from extreme delusion and psychosis that such things happen… I.E. complete unconsciousness… When you don’t understand how things you do and act effect the world on a deeper level you are more prone to heinous acts as seen through out human history…

You have people acting out pain as a collective nation and you get things that are absolutely insane such as the holocoust for example… How did NONE of these SS soldiers see what they were doing to these people… Would they do the same if there wasn’t an entire collective insane organization causing massive pain and suffering on a catastrophic level??

Insanity comes from being completely detached from what is truly real and true… DP and DR may have wiped me of extremely surface level emotions for a bit of time but that is all… It does not cause one to lose their soul. In fact if anything when you are stripped of all that which you usually seek identity from such as thought and emotion then you are forced to surrender to a much deeper place… Living through the breathe… Food for thought.

658

Bullshit & John Stossel have some relevant videos on the subject.

659

Some good, mostly civil, conversations in this thread.

I haven’t seen this posted, so below is a list of the 6 and 7 year old victims. With so much media focus on the shooter, it’s a shame that the name of that despicable piece of shit is seared into everyone’s mind, yet most people can’t name a single boy or girl that was killed.

Please, pick a name out of this list, remember it. And forget that abomination that committed this act. I’m choosing to remember Dylan Hockley; he’s only a few days older than my son.

Charlotte Bacon
Daniel Barden
Olivia Engel
Josephine Gay
Ana M. Marquez-Greene
Dylan Hockley
Madeleine F. Hsu
Catherine V. Hubbard
Chase Kowalski
Jesse Lewis
James Mattioli
Grace McDonnell
Emilie Parker
Jack Pinto
Noah Pozner
Caroline Previdi
Jessica Rekos
Avielle Richman
Benjamin Wheeler
Allison N. Wyatt

660

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Most of these shooters die but unless we get into the minds of these people there’s no real way to prevent this. He could easily have killed on armed security guard, or bought a gun illegally.[/quote]

Easily preventable by not selling semiautomatic rifles to civilians. And the only rifles should be sold to hunters which are not automatic either. Why does any civilian need to have a bushmaster assault-rifle? It’s meant for killing people not hunting.

If you are paranoid and need a gun for safety a handgun might do as well.
If you think ‘oh we needz ak47 cuz criminals have them’ well those criminals arent gonna attack with automatic rifles unless you are doing some really shady business.

All these schoolshootings are done by depressed twisted white male ‘non-criminals’ who dont plan to survive, and your gun stores sell the best tools for killing people. Wadap.

USA is pretty much the only ‘developed’ country in the world that has metaldetectors in schools. :<[/quote]

hooves clattering ^

See what I mean, folks? Never let a serious crisis go to waste. SOMETHING, ANYTHING MUST BE DONE! Right, wrong or indifferent, DO SOMETHING!

If the nutjob had driven a dump truck on to the school grounds and killed 26 people would the clamor of “Ban Dump Trucks” have resounded across the land? Umm…I doubt it.

[/quote]

Probably not, but investigating how someone willing to do such an act was able to obtain a licence and then a dump truck would probably in order. For the record, I think the majority of people on the road should never have received a license in the first place but that’s neither here nor there.
[/quote]
I think it is the crux of the issue

I do not feel that I’m surrounded by a bunch of idiots who can’t even figure out how to repetitively operate heavy machinery such as a car for example. Do you guys actually feel that you are surrounded by people that dumb?

This is a major trick right here. You can trust yourself with a car, or gun, etc. But the average guy cannot be trusted - instead they ought to be SEVERELY limited for the greater good of you, themselves, “us”, whatever. They can’t handle it - to dumb, to irresponsible, immature, careless, misinformed, etc. Bullshit - its a trap

Do you know what happens when everyone starts thinking like that?

I’ve done plenty of dumbshit in cars, but if I’m being tested I’m automatically going to calm and focus - so ability is not even the problem for the vast majority of my fellow humans which you just love degrading. You really don’t even see that you degrade yourself simultaneously - do ya?

I understand that was most likely just a tiny piece of side sarcasm - but mine was not. I do believe it to be the crux of the issue.