School Shooting in Connecticut

Off Topic
601

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Because some people are saying that teachers should be armed, not armed if they want to be armed and are capable of using a gun properly. [/quote]

Who is saying this? I haven’t seen anyone suggest unwilling or incapable people carry. [/quote]
People have said it in interviews on the news. However, I simply opened my post with that statement to present my position on the topic. Was I stating the obvious? I believe I said as much in the following sentence.

Funny how I post that teachers should have the option to carry and those who agree are attacking me. Reading is not so fundamental. [/quote]

Funny how somebody writes something rhetorically crippled and then gets all huffy when people misread his intent. [/quote]
The only thing that’s crippled is your reading skill. Is that huffy enough for you? Don’t answer as it was rhetorical.

602

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I think the barber should have his barber’s license revoked.
I mean have you seen the shooter’s hair?[/quote]

He looks like an evil Gilligan.

If he was on the island, things would have turned out diffent.

603

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Because some people are saying that teachers should be armed, not armed if they want to be armed and are capable of using a gun properly. [/quote]

Who is saying this? I haven’t seen anyone suggest unwilling or incapable people carry. [/quote]
People have said it in interviews on the news. However, I simply opened my post with that statement to present my position on the topic. Was I stating the obvious? I believe I said as much in the following sentence.

Funny how I post that teachers should have the option to carry and those who agree are attacking me. Reading is not so fundamental. [/quote]

I wasn’t attacking you. I just didn’t see anyone take that position on this board and you didn’t qualify the source. If there are people taking that position I absolutely disagree that unwilling or incapable people should carry.
[/quote]
The other thing is that when people, me included, suggest teachers should be allowed to carry, it gets interpreted as we mean they have to carry. I was simply pointing out my position, clarifying it, so that when I say they should be allowed to carry they note the IF they want to part and the lack of HAVE TO.

604

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Right, normal.

God help the parent of the autistic child who walks into his barbershop unknowingly.
[/quote]

He never mentioned autism once. He’s very affected by what happened and he’s trying to be tough about it. Don’t pretend like you know anything about this person or what he’s going through or what a typical response would be.[/quote]

Adam was in the autistic range. I actually was wondering with the huge rise in autism if this has anything to do with these really bright kids committing atrocities.

605

Getting the topic back on track, let’s say we arm teachers and make schools a hard target. At what point do we as a society stop and say that we’re willing to risk another Newtown to avoid the additional cost and inconvenience of living in a society where it takes 45 minutes to get into a ball game?

606

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Because some people are saying that teachers should be armed, not armed if they want to be armed and are capable of using a gun properly. [/quote]

Who is saying this? I haven’t seen anyone suggest unwilling or incapable people carry. [/quote]
People have said it in interviews on the news. However, I simply opened my post with that statement to present my position on the topic. Was I stating the obvious? I believe I said as much in the following sentence.

Funny how I post that teachers should have the option to carry and those who agree are attacking me. Reading is not so fundamental. [/quote]

Funny how somebody writes something rhetorically crippled and then gets all huffy when people misread his intent. [/quote]
The only thing that’s crippled is your reading skill. Is that huffy enough for you? Don’t answer as it was rhetorical.
[/quote]

Huffy? You sound downright angry.

607

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

Adam was in the autistic range. I actually was wondering with the huge rise in autism if this has anything to do with these really bright kids committing atrocities.[/quote]

I think this is a fascinating questions. The Batman shooter’s dad is a genius who works for FICO. James Holmes himself was working on his doctorate dissertation (this is from memory, I may be wrong). Adam Lanza’s dad is no dumb cookie, the guy was taking in nearly $500k/year and his mom was a trader.

So we have two terribly bright individuals with 2 sets of extremely bright parents committing these acts.

608

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Getting the topic back on track, let’s say we arm teachers and make schools a hard target. At what point do we as a society stop and say that we’re willing to risk another Newtown to avoid the additional cost and inconvenience of living in a society where it takes 45 minutes to get into a ball game?[/quote]

Well, here’s the harder question: If we make schools and airlines and sports arenas into “hard targets”, what are we going to leave as the “soft targets”?

609

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Getting the topic back on track, let’s say we arm teachers and make schools a hard target. At what point do we as a society stop and say that we’re willing to risk another Newtown to avoid the additional cost and inconvenience of living in a society where it takes 45 minutes to get into a ball game?[/quote]

Well, here’s the harder question: If we make schools and airlines and sports arenas into “hard targets”, what are we going to leave as the “soft targets”?[/quote]

Playgrounds, and malls, and theaters, and amusement parks, and the State Fair, and …

610

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
The other thing is that when people, me included, suggest teachers should be allowed to carry, it gets interpreted as we mean they have to carry. I was simply pointing out my position, clarifying it, so that when I say they should be allowed to carry they note the IF they want to part and the lack of HAVE TO. [/quote]

Okay so you were agreeing all along… It could be poor reading comprehension on our parts, but I do think you angled your posts in such a way as to appear on the opposite side of the argument than the one you were actually on. You were sort of explaining from the other side how those people could view the side you were actually on.

611

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Huffy? You sound downright angry.

[/quote]
I shouldn’t be? I live in CT. My sister and her 3 children live in a town very close to Newtown. I’m armed, and an MP in the CTNG, and none of that helped any of those kids nor would it have helped my kid or niece and nephews if it had happened at their schools. And you choose to argue over some meaningless detail in a post.

612

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

Adam was in the autistic range. I actually was wondering with the huge rise in autism if this has anything to do with these really bright kids committing atrocities.[/quote]

I think this is a fascinating questions. The Batman shooter’s dad is a genius who works for FICO. James Holmes himself was working on his doctorate dissertation (this is from memory, I may be wrong). Adam Lanza’s dad is no dumb cookie, the guy was taking in nearly $500k/year and his mom was a trader.

So we have two terribly bright individuals with 2 sets of extremely bright parents committing these acts.[/quote]

I have heard that “high functioning brains” are more susceptible to mental instability. I would hate for people to blame autism though… Surely there were other psychiatric forces at play in this kid’s mind. I have never thought of autism as something that made people dangerous.

613

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Getting the topic back on track, let’s say we arm teachers and make schools a hard target. At what point do we as a society stop and say that we’re willing to risk another Newtown to avoid the additional cost and inconvenience of living in a society where it takes 45 minutes to get into a ball game?[/quote]

Well, here’s the harder question: If we make schools and airlines and sports arenas into “hard targets”, what are we going to leave as the “soft targets”?[/quote]

Playgrounds, and malls, and theaters, and amusement parks, and the State Fair, and …

[/quote]

The difference is these places are full of citizens that, in a lot of states, have the option of carrying a concealed weapon. In that case, their safety is in their own hands, even if they refuse to take on that responsibility.

614

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
What specific legislative measures would have prevented this tragedy from occuring?

[/quote]

Armed teachers.

Here are my observations:

  1. This is a tradgedy, but keep it in perspective. Your kid is much more likely to die from a falling big screen TV than being shot. I don’t see the media demanding big screen TV control. Gee, I wonder why?

  2. The USA has a crazy loner problem, not a gun problem.
    If someone wants to kill people, they will find a way. I can go make an amonium nitrate bomb today and blow up a school, if I was so inclined. So can you. The root causes I see on this are the isolation of people due to a break down of the family unit AND, more importantly, since the Earl Warren Court, it’s basically impossible to lock up crazy people.

Yes, I know there is a sordid history in this country with sanitariums, but if done right, they are a great, safe, place. This is also the problem with homeless
people, too, BTW.

  1. The attached picture is from Israel. It’s a school trip. The guys and lady with rifles are teachers.

You see, we have a much more common problem in Israel with sadly very sane people plotting to kill masses of Jewish children because their prophet told them we should be killed wherever we are found.

They use whatever is at hand — my wife was killed with a bomb; my daughters at about age 6 narrowly avoided being run over by a gentleman who just
decided one day to drive along the sidewalk because it was filled with little Jewish girls. (He was gunned down by an off-duty IDF soldier with his sidearm.)

The world is a scary place. The USA has lived in a bubble for the better part of a century, but that bubble is popping. You need to get over the irrational fear of firearms because you are going to need them in the hands of sane, good, people.

[/quote]

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

Damn Good Post[/quote]
Thank you, but I am going to be more explicit.

This shooting was done by an untrained 90 lb loser crazy fuck.

Don’t think for a second that Al Quada, Hamas, and the like haven’t studied this attack.

They are not stupid people.

The next 9/11 is going to be a 9-10 well-trained guys who come in to a school or several schools one day (or any of the other stupid “gun free” zones) and slaughter everyone.

All cops can do is file reports.

It is way past time to train civilians in schools, shopping malls, and the like to be the first line of defense, because that is where the spear is going to strike.

I am a victim of terrorism, and I ask. No, I implore you, to fucking wake up.[/quote]

Quite possibly of two of the dumbest post i’ve seen on here.

A few days after one young adult goes crazy and shoots up a classroom, you want to give teachers guns? Really? This is something you used your brain to think up? We have teachers fuckin students, in many areas specially urban teachers fighting students. Gangs everywhere and you want to put a ton of guns
in school systems. Genius

To all the supporters of this in case you didn’t know THIS AIN’T MUTHAFUCKIN ISREAL.

And if you think it’s safer over there move, don’t turn America into a warzone.[/quote]
The fantasy is everyone walking around thinking the Police are Magical Beings who will beam in to save the day when Danger arise.

When someone decides to go ape shit crazy and kill innocents they pic the group with the weakest possible chance to respond.

Google up all the mass shootings, All gun free Zones.

As crazy as we claim these dumb ass Pussy fame in death seekers to be they know enough not to shoot up police stations, because they know that shit
would not end well.

Honest citizens will obey the stupid laws and the criminals will continue to take advantage.

So everyone can sit back pray and beg for a Law that will protect us all and the cycle will continue.
[/quote]

This happens more at police stations and gun stores then at schools(it’s just so regular that you don’t hear about them). Even happened a few times at gun ranges. So if your second statement is wrong then your first is too?

The difference is yes maybe only one or two people die, however it happens far more frequently so while this mass killed 20. There would possibly be 100s across the country. Because an environment of peace is turned into an environment of fear and violence. Would you prefer it turn into something that happens so regularly that when a kid gets shot it doesn’t even make the news?

I actually had friends attempt to rob a gun store at 17. They were not labeled insane. I guarantee you in the school I grew up in more then one kid a year would make an attempt to steal a teachers gun if they had them, and I grew up in a relatively tame suburb.
[/quote]

Im not sure if your first comment was a statement or some internet fact you picked up. But let’s say your facts are true and Many Gun shows/store and Precients get shot up. The reason it’s not news is because if that does ever happen the shooter gets shut down before any damage could happen. If you think for a Minute Fox, CNN and MNBC wouldn’t jump on a story to prove that even the “gun lovers” are not safe. Then you have to much faith in the Cable News Networks.

I would rather our learning institutions become safe havens for young minds and old scholars with Maybe reserve military units patrolling and less a party scene and a open range for the next nut job looking for a easy target
[/quote]

Military(Non Vets) and teachers are two different things. My statement was clearly for teachers having guns. Teachers have to motivate students daily for several hours, they interact with hostile and non hostile parents. They have far too many situations where they can lose it for a second, and far too many variables with 30 kids in a classroom to have a gun on them. They can be great for 10 years, then lose it. Do you really want them brandishing guns on a kid who cursed them out?

Regarding attempts on police stations and gun shops, it’s not difficult to look up. As I stated in those cases it may only be one person that dies, your mistaken if you think that’s news. One person getting shot in LA is not going to make your cable news that you think would jump on everything. There was more than 10,000 murders last year you really think they reported all of them?

615

[quote]csulli wrote:

I have heard that “high functioning brains” are more susceptible to mental instability. I would hate for people to blame autism though… Surely there were other psychiatric forces at play in this kid’s mind. I have never thought of autism as something that made people dangerous.[/quote]

I have some familiarity with autism as my ex-wife was a social worker who worked extensively with that population. Violence among those with autism and autism spectrum disorders is fairly high, certainly higher than among the general population, however, this violence isn’t predatory. It’s thought that there are psychological co-morbidities that contribute psychotic breaks in which the individual with ASD targets others.

^ Her words, not mine.

616

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

Adam was in the autistic range. I actually was wondering with the huge rise in autism if this has anything to do with these really bright kids committing atrocities.[/quote]

I think this is a fascinating questions. The Batman shooter’s dad is a genius who works for FICO. James Holmes himself was working on his doctorate dissertation (this is from memory, I may be wrong). Adam Lanza’s dad is no dumb cookie, the guy was taking in nearly $500k/year and his mom was a trader.

So we have two terribly bright individuals with 2 sets of extremely bright parents committing these acts.[/quote]

I have heard that “high functioning brains” are more susceptible to mental instability. I would hate for people to blame autism though… Surely there were other psychiatric forces at play in this kid’s mind. I have never thought of autism as something that made people dangerous.[/quote]

This is somewhat what I was getting at as to why psychiatric and/or neuropsychological testing shouldn’t ever be used to make decisions around this stuff. Most people just aren’t qualified to assess things correctly (and those who are qualified still sometimes make mistakes).

Intelligence/“high functioning brains” is pretty well correlated with ADHD in children and adults. If I remember the statistics, most adults with ADHD have well above average IQs. By the time it reaches adulthood, it tends to become intermingled with both depression and anxiety. I think this has a lot to do with how poorly the ADHD brain functions in a society run by non-ADHD brains.

With anxiety can come depersonalization and derealization, which effectively means “you don’t feel real, the people around you don’t feel real, it’s just like a movie or a dream”. Healthy people can distinguish between, say, violence in video games and movies, and violence in real life. However, with derealization it all feels fake. There’s no such thing as “real life” any more. Your dreams and thoughts can sometimes feel more real than “real life” does.

Push that idea a little further, and people start having thoughts like “the consequences don’t matter because it’s not like it’s real anyway”. For some, this manifests in tame ways, for others it doesn’t.

I’m not saying that’s what was going on with this kid, but I wanted to share at least one possible way this could happen. I just think a lot of people don’t really understand the way mental disorders screw with you.

617

Ever wonder why so many children have autism nowadays? The average age women give birth has increased dramatically. Women who have children later in their fertile years have significantly more autistic children.

I believe there are ties to older men having children at a later age as well, but the link is minimal in comparison

618

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Ever wonder why so many children have autism nowadays? The average age women give birth has increased dramatically. Women who have children later in their fertile years have significantly more autistic children.

I believe there are ties to older men having children at a later age as well, but the link is minimal in comparison [/quote]

Your repeated anti-feminism agenda just makes me laugh.

619

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Ever wonder why so many children have autism nowadays? The average age women give birth has increased dramatically. Women who have children later in their fertile years have significantly more autistic children.

I believe there are ties to older men having children at a later age as well, but the link is minimal in comparison [/quote]

Your repeated anti-feminism agenda just makes me laugh.[/quote]

I have a theory feminism causes cancer. Its true. Ever wonder why older women who have kids late in life sometimes then get cancer? It can’t just be a coincidence.

620

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Ever wonder why so many children have autism nowadays? The average age women give birth has increased dramatically. Women who have children later in their fertile years have significantly more autistic children.[/quote]

I do wonder that. The rates have increased pretty substantially. Fortunately or unfortunately the age of the mother is a tiny piece of a much larger puzzle though. I believe not even 5% of total autism cases can be attributed to this. The unfortunate part of that being we still have no idea what the fuck is causing such a rapid increase.