The idea of teachers with guns is a non-starter for all the reasons listed in this thread and more. It works in Israel because there is mandatory conscription for Israeli citizens aged 18 and over. There is exactly %0 chance that the vast majority of teachers either want to be armed or have the training to warrant being armed.
So, that leaves us with armed guards which isn’t an awful solution, but what about our movie theaters, or play grounds, or bus terminals, or sports stadiums, or shopping malls, or any of the other places masses of people congregate.
How much are we willing to spend for a (false) sense of security? How much are we willing to inconvenience ourselves? Would you go to a baseball game if you had to be there an hour before the first pitch so you could go through a process like the airports have? Would you go to a mall if you had to wait 30 minutes, consent to be frisked, and had all your belongings X-rayed?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
The idea of teachers with guns is a non-starter for all the reasons listed in this thread and more. It works in Israel because there is mandatory conscription for Israeli citizens aged 18 and over. There is exactly %0 chance that the vast majority of teachers either want to be armed or have the training to warrant being armed.
So, that leaves us with armed guards which isn’t an awful solution, but what about our movie theaters, or play grounds, or bus terminals, or sports stadiums, or shopping malls, or any of the other places masses of people congregate.
How much are we willing to spend for a (false) sense of security? How much are we willing to inconvenience ourselves? Would you go to a baseball game if you had to be there an hour before the first pitch so you could go through a process like the airports have? Would you go to a mall if you had to wait 30 minutes, consent to be frisked, and had all your belongings X-rayed?[/quote]
Machine guns in the cielings next to the water sprinklers…if a shooter comes in then hallways are cleared as fast as possible before a button is pressed unleashing hell.
Malls could be filled with wild attack dogs to be used like the cieling guns.
The ceiling will be glass so potential shooters can see the thousands of raging dogs ready to be dropped on him or her
As much as teachers hated their jobs and life in general i doubt any of them would use it anyway.
Well maybe theyd use it to draw attention to the room so the killer could come and end their misery.
Of all the teachers i had from middle school through high school…i cant really think of a single one i would want with a gun.
Looking back…we had teachers who
Were only there to fuckand suck
Drug addicts and alcoholics
Immature and thought they WERE students still…
people who couldnt sleep enough at home
overly shy
Racist
Self hating racists
old as all fuck
Not all there and thought they were oprah.
[/quote]
Lol, what city are you from? Because my teachers were great and loved their jobs.
As much as teachers hated their jobs and life in general i doubt any of them would use it anyway.
Well maybe theyd use it to draw attention to the room so the killer could come and end their misery.
Of all the teachers i had from middle school through high school…i cant really think of a single one i would want with a gun.
Looking back…we had teachers who
Were only there to fuckand suck
Drug addicts and alcoholics
Immature and thought they WERE students still…
people who couldnt sleep enough at home
overly shy
Racist
Self hating racists
old as all fuck
Not all there and thought they were oprah.
[/quote]
Lol, what city are you from? Because my teachers were great and loved their jobs.[/quote]
[quote]gregron wrote:
Haven’t read any of this thread but I’m sure it has devolved into a pointless debate about gun control…
My heart is broken for those poor families in Connecticut. Such a horrible thing to happen.[/quote]
You might be surprised.
And I would argue that such a debate is anything but pointless.[/quote]
This is very true. Though I don’t agree with many of the opinions in this thread, it’s been pretty civil with some very well expressed points. Read through it and you may learn something that could re-affirm or even change your thoughts on the subject!
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
The idea of teachers with guns is a non-starter for all the reasons listed in this thread and more. It works in Israel because there is mandatory conscription for Israeli citizens aged 18 and over. There is exactly %0 chance that the vast majority of teachers either want to be armed or have the training to warrant being armed.
So, that leaves us with armed guards which isn’t an awful solution, but what about our movie theaters, or play grounds, or bus terminals, or sports stadiums, or shopping malls, or any of the other places masses of people congregate.
How much are we willing to spend for a (false) sense of security? How much are we willing to inconvenience ourselves? Would you go to a baseball game if you had to be there an hour before the first pitch so you could go through a process like the airports have? Would you go to a mall if you had to wait 30 minutes, consent to be frisked, and had all your belongings X-rayed?[/quote]
Machine guns in the cielings next to the water sprinklers…if a shooter comes in then hallways are cleared as fast as possible before a button is pressed unleashing hell.
Malls could be filled with wild attack dogs to be used like the cieling guns.
The ceiling will be glass so potential shooters can see the thousands of raging dogs ready to be dropped on him or her
[/quote]
But…wait what?!?
What if somebody were to just break into the security office and press the “ceiling gun” button and murder hundreds or thousands of people?
[quote]debraD wrote:
So if we are arming teachers–what happens when the first teacher goes nuts? Serious question. [/quote]
Same thing if a teacher goes nuts now — well, except that, if it were legal for trained teachers to pack, there would be other armed teachers to stop said nut.
Seriously, do you think that a teacher who is nuts would be currently deterred to bringing a weapon to school because it’s a “gun free zone.”?
I guess since criminals and nuts always obey laws, we should outlaw murder and burglary.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
The idea of teachers with guns is a non-starter for all the reasons listed in this thread and more. It works in Israel because there is mandatory conscription for Israeli citizens aged 18 and over. There is exactly %0 chance that the vast majority of teachers either want to be armed or have the training to warrant being armed.[/quote]
You don’t need “all” or even a majority. Just some.
I hunted terrorists for a living. Just like nuts, they looks for “soft” targets – because they are cowards in their hearts.
Again, the CO movie shooter picked the movie theater that was “gun free zone.” That’s intentional.
All you have to do is make the schools “less soft” of targets. The possibility of CCW is a huge deterrant. Get it where 5-10% of the teachers carry — most of the front desk folks and admin – that’d be huge.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Back on topic… and WTF? No wonder!
While there is some revealing information in here I feel that this is part of the problem. These killers are turned into infamous pop culture icons.
“You’re sitting in the chair where he used to sit and get a haircut,” he tells a visitor on Tuesday.
He’s got a new distinction now: He was Adam Lanza’s barber.
“… I used to cut the killer’s hair …”
Our culture has a sick fascination with people that do horrific things, we can’t get enough, and others see the attention people like Lanza get and that does absolutely nothing to deter them from going forward. In his suicide note Robert Hawkins (Von Maur shooting) stated “I’m gonna be fuckin’ famous.” Both the viewers and the media bear responsibility here, moreso the viewers.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Back on topic… and WTF? No wonder!
I think the barber is nuts.
From the article: He wishes he’d have killed Adam.
“I wish I would’ve killed him then,” he says…
“It would’ve saved all those kids and parents the trouble. I should’ve slipped and stabbed him by accident. It would’ve been a lot better for those people.”
Teachers and other staff should not be forced to carry. That should be obvious. If you make weapons training and having a carry permit mandatory for teachers then you will have a major shortage of teachers. Having said that, although most of my teachers growing up were not people I would trust with a gun in a crisis, I did have some who were more than familiar with them. Some were hunters and/or had military experience.
One teacher was still in the reserves or NG, I don’t remember which. This was in HS as, for whatever reason, men are more likely to teach HS than elementary and men are more likely to have familiarity with guns. In college I had profs who I would trust with guns. One was a Vietnam vet (well, maybe I should rethink him…) for example.
I taught for a short period. I am also in the military and have experience with guns and also possess a permit. So although I don’t think forcing teachers is a logical choice, I think that if someone already has a permit to carry, which means they have some training and have passed a background check (and teachers have to pass that regardless) at least in CT, then they should be allowed to carry in school. The state has approved them to carry and the school has obviously approved them to be near kids. The federal and state govts have approved me to carry and have trained me. The only thing I would think should be added is some additional training when it comes to using a gun in a school environment.
It’s that or pay for cops to be there. It might not be a long term solution but it’s the reality at the moment. It will happen again because of the whole copycat syndrome and because there are more individuals like that Lanza kid out there. Right now they have a cop at my kid’s school as a result of what happened (I live in CT). I don’t know for how long they will continue to have one there but I have to admit that I feel a little bit better seeing him there when I drop my kid off and pick her up. I’m sure all the parents do.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Back on topic… and WTF? No wonder!
I think the barber is nuts.
From the article: He wishes he’d have killed Adam.
“I wish I would’ve killed him then,” he says…
“It would’ve saved all those kids and parents the trouble. I should’ve slipped and stabbed him by accident. It would’ve been a lot better for those people.”
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Back on topic… and WTF? No wonder!
I think the barber is nuts.
From the article: He wishes he’d have killed Adam.
“I wish I would’ve killed him then,” he says…
“It would’ve saved all those kids and parents the trouble. I should’ve slipped and stabbed him by accident. It would’ve been a lot better for those people.”
[/quote]
The barber is almost certainly as normal as can be. He sounds to me like a talkative, emotional man who is speaking in the wake of a tragedy that affects him very personally. That’s pretty much exactly the kind of stuff I would have expected him to say.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Teachers and other staff should not be forced to carry. [/quote]
Good grief.
Point out one place this has been suggested.
[/quote]
Wow. Just pick out one sentence as if context means nothing. That happens when you stop after the first sentence (they have meds to help with attention span). BTW, when someone suggests that teachers SHOULD carry, are they not teetering on saying they should be forced? Because some people are saying that teachers should be armed, not armed if they want to be armed and are capable of using a gun properly.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Teachers and other staff should not be forced to carry. [/quote]
Good grief.
Point out one place this has been suggested.
[/quote]
Wow. Just pick out one sentence as if context means nothing. That happens when you stop after the first sentence (they have meds to help with attention span). BTW, when someone suggests that teachers SHOULD carry, are they not teetering on saying they should be forced? Because some people are saying that teachers should be armed, not armed if they want to be armed and are capable of using a gun properly. [/quote]
Please tell me the point of starting a paragraph with a sentence that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Because nobody was talking about FORCING teachers to do anything.
When the first sentence of a paragraph is bullshit, I know I don’t have to read any further.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Back on topic… and WTF? No wonder!
I think the barber is nuts.
From the article: He wishes he’d have killed Adam.
“I wish I would’ve killed him then,” he says…
“It would’ve saved all those kids and parents the trouble. I should’ve slipped and stabbed him by accident. It would’ve been a lot better for those people.”
[/quote]
The barber is almost certainly as normal as can be. He sounds to me like a talkative, emotional man who is speaking in the wake of a tragedy that affects him very personally. That’s pretty much exactly the kind of stuff I would have expected him to say.[/quote]
Totally agree. Sounds like somebody I’d enjoy having cut my hair.