School Board Shooting

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[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]HERC410 wrote:

[quote]Amiright wrote:
Thats totally fucked up… luckily that guy sucks at shooting… as messed up as it is… how the hell do you miss from 10 feet?!? Thankfully those people are ok… [/quote]

if i’d missed all those shots from 10 feet i’d have killed myself too…out of embarrassment.[/quote]

It’s real easy to miss from 10 feet when you’re not proficient with the firearm, use shitty control, or are in an elevated adrenaline state. Talk to enough LEO’s who have had to discharge a weapon and inevitably you’ll find that even professionals trained to be proficient with firearms miss at close range in some circumstances.[/quote]

Remember the DEA guy who shot himself in a leg during a classroom lecture? Now let’s have a gunfight. No one is John Wayne or Clint Eastwood then. Maybe some Delta or SEAL team operators, but they shoot 2000+ rounds a week. And most likely were excellent before that.

I took a combat shooting course and we were made to qualify at 3x speed. And that was probably 3x slower than an average gunfight. Training prepares you but only so much.

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[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]HERC410 wrote:

[quote]Amiright wrote:
Thats totally fucked up… luckily that guy sucks at shooting… as messed up as it is… how the hell do you miss from 10 feet?!? Thankfully those people are ok… [/quote]

if i’d missed all those shots from 10 feet i’d have killed myself too…out of embarrassment.[/quote]

It’s real easy to miss from 10 feet when you’re not proficient with the firearm, use shitty control, or are in an elevated adrenaline state. Talk to enough LEO’s who have had to discharge a weapon and inevitably you’ll find that even professionals trained to be proficient with firearms miss at close range in some circumstances.[/quote]

Remember the DEA guy who shot himself in a leg during a classroom lecture? Now let’s have a gunfight. No one is John Wayne or Clint Eastwood then. Maybe some Delta or SEAL team operators, but they shoot 2000+ rounds a week. And most likely were excellent before that.

I took a combat shooting course and we were made to qualify at 3x speed. And that was probably 3x slower than an average gunfight. Training prepares you but only so much.[/quote]

Right, so it’s not much of a stretch to understand how this chooch missed from a few yards at most.

I don’t think most people who have never shot a handgun realize the geometry of the shot, either. A pistol in hand with the barrel pointed just a hair in one direction has a trajectory of several feet away from ‘target’ even at a few yards. It’s simple trigonometry.

Add to that that when he’s squeezing the trigger (single hand shot at arms extended distance) he’s moving the gun as off target as well.

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Exactly right Steely. I saw some clowns at the range shooting rapid fire as they put it, at 25 yards they killed a lot of worms ten yards on front of the target.

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Also, a sight radius of 2" to 5" is very unforgiving as you said, a slight deviation will cause you to miss at a few yards. Now add in stress, speed, and we’ll see if you can break that trigger clean without disturbing your sight picture. Unless you’re practicing under stress you’re going to miss.

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[quote]ExtremistPullup wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

You are making a lot of assumptions. Just because someone has been in altercations doesn’t make them a hot head, nor does a lack of sack make them level headed. My point was that if my father-in-law were to pull a gun on someone who could handle themselves he would probably get it shoved down his throat. If he is pulling it on someone who is not a serious threat, why does he need a gun?

In Michigan you can’t take a concealed weapon into a bar or sporting event or a whole host of other venues. So you can take it to Detroit to see a Wings game but you have to leave it in your car. This kind of defeats the purpose if you ask me.

I’m not against CCW’s I just think the majority aren’t fit to have them. I’m also not anti gun either, as I have quite a few of my own.
[/quote]

You are making a lot of assumptions about other people based on your father in law, Just because someone has a gun doesn’t mean thir going to pull it every time they feel threatened. If it comes out, its going to be used and the threat will stop. If someone is not a threat you don’t inject that into a confrontation. The gun is something to fall back on as a last resort.

You believe the majority aren’t fit to have them but, CCW are the one’s less likely to commit a crime. Saying a Majority of people who qualifty for a CCW shouldn’t have them anyway is very anti CCW

If the only thing he does is go to bars and pro sports, he might just want to leave it at home.

here is an example in the news
Houston store owner kills 3 would-be robbers

[/quote]

No, I am making assumptions on the majority of people being idiots. And saying that idiots shouldn’t have CCW’s even though they qualify isn’t anti CCW, it is anti armed idiot. I don’t know about Oklahoma, but there is a lot of road rage here.It has been shown that being armed CAN (not will) make one more confident about their abilities should things escalate, thus making them less likely to back down.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-carrying/index.html

I wasn’t saying anything about my FIL going to bars or sporting events, I was making the point that you can take a gun to the city, but when you are likely to need it on the street on the way to an event you won’t have it.

BTW I fully believe that the store owner in the above example should have a CCW. There is really no question that those in at risk professions should be allowed to carry.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TD54 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ty Carlson wrote:
Luckily, this guy turned out to be one of the worst shots of all-time…especially when he shoots next to his feet twice. Reminds me of when Harry tries to shoot the people at the end of Dumb and Dumber.

“Harry! You’re alive! And you’re a terrible shot!”[/quote]

Just a question…but to those calling him a bad shot, you all have fired a weapon in a tense situation?

Guess what, your hands are shaking, your perception is off and only trained individuals will overcome that in most circumstances.

For instance, if a man has a heart attack in a restaurant, watch how many people just stand around or start fidgeting but doing nothing productive. A trained medical provider will usually have to YELL for someone to go call 911 before anyone moves.

Yeah he missed…thank goodness…but my guess is, most people would or they would hit targets randomly by accident.

That is why it is a little off to ASSUME that any of you will do better if you have never dealt with that before at all.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying but this situation was premeditated, obviously. Because of that, he had more time to mentally prepare for this “tense” situation. It would make more sense for a guy to miss multiple shots from 10 feet when he is completely caught off guard like a cop who suddenly needs to fire their weapon after 15 years of not ever firing it. I get what you’re saying though. The guy was probably shitting himself because he knew he was dying momentarily. Either that or going back to prison which he said wasn’t an option.
[/quote]

Just a tip…it doesn’t matter how much you “mentally prepare” for an altercation like that. Until you get your hands dirty in the middle of shit, you will not know how you will react. That goes for anyone from the MT who arrives on the job day one and has to treat a massive injury or dealing with some guy pulling a gun on you.

Most people are not anywhere near as badass as they wish they were when faced with something like that. This is why I respect the counsel-man to some degree for keeping a level head. I am willing to bet most people’s reaction would be to piss themselves, cry, or freeze in one place. Most would NOT immediately try to calmly talk the shooter down.[/quote]

All i am saying is that there is a difference between being prepared for an event like that, as the shooter was, and being surprised by it, as the school board was. And I agree the way that councilman handled himself was impressive. He was able to rationally think and talk to the shooter in a calm manner. That was also impressive hearing him tell the shooter to let everyone else go because they didnt have anythign to do with it.

What do you think about how the other councilman reacted? The guy that was giving him the whole “let me go i have a wife and kids” speech