@Singhbuilder, I’m running Test Prop at 20 mg per day and Anavar at 50 mg per day starting last Monday. I’m looking ahead to get on my cypionate at trt levels (150mg per week). I knew there was going to be an issue going from short ester to long. Do you front load to stabilize your levels making the transition?
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Pop 3-4 25mg benadryl about an hour before bed.
Idk if there is any downside to using daily benadryl but iv been doing it for a while now and it works like a charm
@zeek1414 While benadryl makes it easier to enter the lighter stages of sleep it keeps you from entering the deeper phases. That’s one of the reasons people feel groggy the next day. (that’s the simple answer without going full unreal24278 on the topic)
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LMFAO. I appreciate that. Sometimes I don’t even understand what that young man is saying.
And I agree it def just helps me relax and be able to fall asleep. But that seems to be my hardest part with tren is the winding down mentally part. Once I’m able to do that I get great sleep. I fall asleep around 10 and wake up at 530 feeling great!
Iv tried just about every sleep drug possible. All 3 popular Z-drugs, benzos, clonodine, and a handful of natural otc ones but benadryl just seems to be the least side effect free for me. Altho I’m wondering if once I stop tren if I will have developed a mental dependency of sorts to it. Idk I guess il find out in a few weeks!
Lol! I’m sure like everything else it’ll effect different people differently so it may not have a crazy detrimental effect on your sleep like it would others. Just ween off the benadryl slowly when you’re ready and you won’t have issues.
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Honestly man, far more will catch up to you from long term, high dose Tren use. Whilst sleep deprivation alone is somewhat of a cardiovascular risk factor, what Tren will do to you’re kidneys, heart etc over the long run pales in comparison to the deleterious effect of mild insomnia.
The reason everyone doesn’t switch out wet and/or other compounds with Tren is because
- wet compounds tend to be lighter on the lipids
- wet compounds tend to facilitate more overall anabolism, good if you wish to bulk
- Tren is (probably) highly neurotoxic, rampant with sides, induces changes in demeanor unlike any other compound for many, cardiotoxicity, nephrotoxicity, blood pressure, glucose tolerance/blood sugar issues, acute respiratory distress.
Tren may work well for you (acutely), but I’d be very wary about recommending it to others, there are plenty of guys who can’t even take 50mg Tren/wk as they’ll become a nervous, sweaty wreck
People don’t like sdrol due to the lethargy and immense toxicity associated with it, you said you know many who couldn’t get out of bed on sdrol, I think I’d prefer Dbol+energy+decent gains to sdrol+lethargy+fantastic gains
Benadryl in high dosages is a deleriant. I personally hate the stuff, instead of making me sleepy it gives me this massive feeling of being weighed down, and it’s profoundly uncomfortable… too uncomfortable too induce sleep
I’ve used midazolam once to help me sleep (given to me by someone else when I was very young)… I didn’t know what I was taking at the time, had I known very young unreal24278 would’ve said something like “cool… midazolam…”… it induced hallucinations (rare, but plausible side effect)
Have you tried melatonin of 5-htp? Assuming you aren’t on an SSRI
Don’t expect to dream much on a Benzo, they suppress REM sleep quite a bit… cannabis can induce a lethargic, sedated state depending on terpene profile and cannabinoid profile of said doob. But repeated use isn’t a great idea (then again… it’s a hell of a lot safer than benzodiazepines or zolpidem)
@unreal24278 I was wondering where you were. You seemed awfully quiet the past 24 hours lol.
I’ve been working to make more money to cater for expenses for my Europe trip, manual Labour primarily, that and spending time with friends (graduated woooot)
A smidge busy
Yes tried both from “reccomended” doses to mega doses with no benefits atleast not when dealing with tren. Not on an ssri or ever have been.
When not using tren sleep is not an issue. And it only becomes an issue on tren for me when I get upwards of 500mg/week
I dont take large enough doses of benadryl to cause hallucinations. Iv heard of that tho kids getting high off it which is retarded.
Marijuana induced sleep gives me massive hang overs. Especially sense il eat before fall g asleep so then I wake up feeling hung over and full of undigested food.
Now that’s more like it. Congrats by the way.
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Thank you 
That’s for the better, using a substance as a crutch to fall asleep is grounds for dependence in the long run (although this is a generalization as many do require various chemicals in order to life an adequate day to day lifestyle)
It is retarded, aside from the fact that consuming diphenhydramine in large quantities is legitimately quite dangerous… the hallucinations induced by deleriants are very lifelike, and the effect on neurology + hallucinations makes the user unable to differentiate between reality/hallucination, thus mimicking legitimate psychosis… I’ve never done this, however I to know of a few kids who have taken Benadryl for the purpose of inducing an altered state of mind
I wouldn’t ever frontload Test, the aromatisation would hit me hard I believe.
I would just start my TRT dose a week before I was due to come off the Prop.
SB
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All this talk about sleep- why has nobody brought up Benzos or GBH yet? They are available in my country over the counter and I’ve found them to be very good in knocking me out as well as Benzos being very relaxing and ‘chill’'. (obviously there is the addiction factor you have to look out for)
I’ve also been looking into GHB/GBL, I experimented with them as a teenager as it is quite a popular drug where I’m from. I’ve heard that it can increase HGH and that the sleep cycles you go into from them are beneficial to muscle building. Anyone have any insight? I usually pop 10mg diazepam or 12.5mg Zopiclone and I’m out like a light, although I try to use it as a last resort. Benadryl and other drowsy antihistamines don’t much work for me and make me feel groggy the next day. Maybe swapping to a moderate dose of GHB instead of Benzos may be better for gains? The info online seems very contradictory, some saying it increases HGH and some saying it doesn’t.
I dont even know where to begin on explaining why this is a bad idea.
Not a bad idea, periodically using a psychoactive substance implicated within date rape (not really, more media hysteria) and MANYMANYMANYMANANY violence fueled deaths in Aus to sleep is a great idea
Tbh in relation to using Benzos to sleep, it’s about as addictive as using booze to fall asleep. I know these meds ruin lives due to addiction, one of my acquaintances uses benzodiazepines FREQUENTLY… but the truth is… benzodiazepines in terms of the dependence factor are about on par with booze. 4-5 beers prior to sleep daily is about the same in terms of addictive potential (both are horrific ideas, just further purporting that booze, an otc substance is on par with, if not worse than alcohol abuse.
GHB is/was prescribed to aid insomnia (one use), increases the efficiency of “deep” sleep, thus one can theoretically feel fully rested in a short period of time (simple explanation as to not go full unreal24278). It’s also about on par with alcohol in terms of addictive potential. All have a risk of neurotoxicity (hence long term cognitive issues associated with chronic, frequent alcohol, benzo or GHB use (little data on GHB abuse).
However whilst I don’t believe the majority of psychoactive substances should be criminalized or even scheduled (as a regulated market similarly to alcohol or tobacco is the way I think society should approach most psychoactive drugs due to regulation inducing product quality, more access to healthcare for addicts absent of stigmatization, better research on various substances to fully garner the full scale of risk etc… the list goes on and on (and prohibition doesn’t appear to stop anyone from what I’ve witnessed)… just look at the kids and music festivals in NSW. BUUUTTTT…
You use as a “last resort”… fine, on occasion whatever… but you state you “USUALLY”… “pop” these pills. These aren’t substances to be taken callously, occasional use, be it therapeutic or recreational is about the only way one can use benzodiazepines, Z drugs or GHB without major risk for dependence, both physiological and psychological.
My stance towards drug use is fairly progressive, as I’ve seen both sides of the spectrum (those who have experimented with just about everything under the sun and turned out fine, never had a drug issue and those who become addicted upon first try… I believe education, genetics and mental state play a large factor). I apologize if it appears I’m coming off as insensitive towards those who have previously struggled with the throes of addiction, I fully understand what havok drugs can wreck on ones life, however the notion of banning/tightening legislature is NOT the answer for curbing addiction rates, look at the Netherlands… a more progressive stance appears to = extremely low rates of addiction to hard drugs.
The notion of frequently popping hypnotics/sedatives to sleep absent of doctors approval/prescription (a GOOD doctor, not one that will prescribe anything provided the check Is fat enough) is irresponsible within my opinion… granted recreational drug use in general is irresponsible… but that stops almost no one. Frequent drug use as specified above is a step above irresponsible, it’s literally like playing russian roulette
DO NOT use benzodiazepines, z drugs or GHB with other depressant. Have one friend who drank a ton on Xanax… lucky he didn’t die, but he did periodically black out for about 24 hours… be careful with ghb, rec dose / lethal dose, esp if not pharmaceutical grade can be a fiiiiine like, especially if unregulated due to substances being over/underdosed. The synergistic effects of the depressants can induce profound respiratory depression as the drugs potentiate one another… that’s a simple way of saying it. In general don’t combine depressant substances aside from perhaps weed + whatever (cannabis and alcohol however can seriously make you feel as if the earth is throwing you off it’s gravitational orbit)
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Benzos can be bad, but not nearly as scary as you are making it out to be, and yes they have a high potential for addiction. However, you sound a bit like the people who list off all the side effects of steroids and talk about how bad it is, without realising there are ways to use these drugs safely and within reason. I’d even go as far as saying that semi regular use (2-3/week) of Benzos are far safer and healthier than doing an anabolic steroid cycle, although this could obvs be debated.
GHB is a sedative and ‘GABA-genic’, just like alcohol, just like Benzos. Z-drugs are a subclass within Benzos that have the amnesiac/sedative/hypnotic effects, but not the anxiolytic effect, so is regarded as slightly less addictive than regular Benzos like alprazolam or diazepam- hence why I will opt to take Zopiclone over Diazepam when I can.
What I mean by usually is: ‘when I get insomnia (or I’ve messed up my sleep routine to the point of sleeping at 5am), I will usually…’ to give you some idea of my usage, i buy a 10x10mg strip of diazepam (or Zopiclone) every 2-3months. I also said usually because on the rare occasion I get a bout of insomnia for a second night in a row, I will opt for a combination of valerian root and melatonin instead- even though ive found it doesn’t really work at all.
Benzos CAN be regarded as relatively safe (while not mixing with other CNS depressants, safer than alcohol for sure. It would be difficult to ‘OD’ on Benzos alone(high LD50). They were manufactured as an alternative to the much more dangerous barbiturates.
The main risk with Benzos is addiction, withdrawal from said addiction, and mixing with other cns depressants.
Anyone who is on steroids and is sensible/knowledgeable enough to do stuff like PCT, take side-effect reducing ancillaries I would regard as sensible enough to take Benzos or Z-drugs safely- yes, even without a doctor’s note.
GHB-perhaos not so much, it can be very dangerous (hence why I asked, since it is extremely popular within the bodybuilding community for it’s supposed GH boosting effects).
I’m well aware of the pharmacokinetics of benzodiazepines, z drugs and GHB… but no, they’re not safe, primarily due to the potential for neurotoxicity/dependence… if you can use without getting addicted, then yes, occasional benzodiazepine use is far, FAR safer than anabolics. They don’t have the potential to fuck up you’re heart, kidneys etc like AAS do, but the dependence potential and consequences stemming from addiction FAR outweigh the risks present from anabolics
No, they’re not safe for recreational use 3x/wk, don’t kid yourself. I’ve seen what frequent use of benzodiazepines can do to people, particularly kids. One kid needs to use Diazepam daily, every night… breaks out in cold sweats without, can’t sleep, feels awful (benzo / alcohol withdrawal can induce life threatening seizures btw). You can argue with me about this, however there’s no point as we clearly have differing opinions on this matter
They’re not as scary as people make them out to be, they’re about on par with alcohol in terms of dependence potential and neurotoxicity… and that’s not much better, if one is using booze for recreation 2-3 x weekly consistently (say not on holiday or something), that’s a drug problem…
If you’re using occasionally though then whatever… 10 every 3 months isn’t the end of the world. However I can’t reccomend it either, just as I wouldn’t reccomend anyone drink to intoxication 10 times every 3 months (barring the numerous elements of systemic toxicity), just appears too frequent for my taste, though perhaps I’m being too conservative here
Should reiterate if you were ordering 10 tabs every year or something… then yes… far far far far safer than AAS
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when I had trouble sleeping using Diphenhydramine my coach suggested switching to GABA instead and I had better quality of sleep with the switch. don’t think anyone has suggested that yet but maybe it pales in comparison to the suggestions above.
There is a long-term downside to using Benadryl. Drugs of that class are linkes to dementia, Parkinson’s, and other neurological disorders.