Saved a Life!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
63

Anti-liberty stances push has:

State saying gay people cannot marry.

State making health decisions for women.

Why you think these make me a statist for being on the other side makes no sense. You’re completely backwards in your thinking on what is liberty here vs. what is not.

I don’t know why you keep throwing out the term statist either. You’re clearly a statist push being for these things as well as a big military.

READ THIS CAREFULLY:

â??Like so many others, Libertarians wrestle with the moral issues associated with abortion. While our party includes a significant number of people who describe themselves as pro-choice, nearly as many members describe themselves as pro-life. In my own view, however, there is no conflict: the best way to respect life is to prevent government from interfering with individual rights.

Regardless of oneâ??s view on this matter, however, we should all be able to agree that a pregnant woman is an individual with rights. And that includes the right to make often-difficult decisions concerning her own body."

Or just ignore it and call me a statist which I am. I’m not for no government anymore than you are. I’m for a decreased role in the private lives of citizens and in the fiscal lives of citizens.

64

[quote]H factor wrote:

pregnant woman is an individual with rights. And that includes the right to make often-difficult decisions concerning her own body."

[/quote]

Hey the aborted female baby used to be a female with rights too, why isn’t she given the chance to make the often-difficult decisions concerning her own body?

67

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

Showing pictures of aborted fetuses to pro-choicers tends only to make them hate anti-abortionists more.[/quote]

But showing pictures of aborted fetuses to those somewhat on the fence on the issue has certainly convinced many that the human being a few days after it’s born is a human being a few days before it’s born.[/quote]

Agreed. But there are enough people staunchly pro-choice that I think far more time and energy deserves to be put into the culture change end of it.

69

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

Showing pictures of aborted fetuses to pro-choicers tends only to make them hate anti-abortionists more.[/quote]

But showing pictures of aborted fetuses to those somewhat on the fence on the issue has certainly convinced many that the human being a few days after it’s born is a human being a few days before it’s born.[/quote]

Agreed. But there are enough people staunchly pro-choice that I think far more time and energy deserves to be put into the culture change end of it.[/quote]

But some agree (not you, of course) that showing pictures of aborted fetuses IS time and energy expended to change the culture.[/quote]

When I say, “change the culture,” I mean something different.

We live in a time when unwanted pregnancy should not exist outside of cases of rape and freak accidents like birth control failure. I’ve been gettin down with ladies since I was 15 or 16, often, in college at least, under the influence of copious amounts of intoxicant substances, and I’ve managed not to knock anybody up. And I was very broke for most of that time.

That is, it isn’t really all that hard to not make babies. The best way to save future unborn children is to make sure they never even come into being.

70

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I’ve been gettin down with ladies since I was 15 or 16, often, in college at least, under the influence of copious amounts of intoxicant substances, and I’ve managed not to knock anybody up. [/quote]

That you know of.

71

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

pregnant woman is an individual with rights. And that includes the right to make often-difficult decisions concerning her own body."

[/quote]

Hey the aborted female baby used to be a female with rights too, why isn’t she given the chance to make the often-difficult decisions concerning her own body?

[/quote]

For one I didn’t write the article, merely showing Push how off he is on libertarian views.

Quite simply if that is the view someone wants to have I fully support it. I also support a woman’s right to do what she wants to with her own body. Why don’t we let people make their own health decisions and not have the government force them to do either?

Not to mention (for the zillionth time) most of me being pro-choice comes from the knowledge that overturning Roe v. Wade won’t help anything and if women are going to do that then let’s at least make it in a safe place and not in a back alley.

73

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H Statist wrote:

…And that includes the right to make often-difficult decisions concerning her own body."

[/quote]

How “difficult” it is is a non sequitur.

I often have to make difficult decisions that affect my tax return. It’s still irrelevant as to whether I have to file one or not.

Besides, for many women who strictly view abortion as birth control because of “mistakes” or “forgetfulness” it’s not a “difficult decision” at all. She zips right down to the community fetal vacuum cleaner and whoosh! there goes that temporary “problem.”

Has nothing to do with “health” ~95% of the time. What a tired sack of shit chant that’s getting to be.[/quote]

And you’re basing this on what exactly? Just your say so? The amount of women out there who view abortion as a form of birth control is low. For one thing most abortions are taking place from low income ladies. The idea that a large amount of women are having sex and then going to get abortions to take care of the problem is stupid and based on nothing other than your passion.

Since you read the excerpt from the article why did you ignore this? “The lowest rate of abortion in the world is in pro-choice Holland, widely considered to be a hotbed of promiscuous sexual activity.”

“These trends should not surprise anyone. Women choose abortion for one overwhelming reason: economic insecurity. The large majority of women who chose abortion in 2008, 57%, reported a disruptive event in their lives in the previous 12 months: most often, the loss of a job or home.”

Hey why let facts get in the way of a typical Push personal insult fest though?

76

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

…When I say, “change the culture,” I mean something different…

[/quote]

I realize that. But you can’t have an “It’s my way or the highway” attitude about it.

For some, an internet discussion on a muscle/fitness website that entails logic and reasoning will be enough to “change the culture.”

For others, like a knocked-up young single woman who is thinking of beebopping down to the Planned Parenthood Vacuum Emporium to have the “parasite” removed as is her USSC granted “right” to make a “health decision,” seeing those photos/ultrasounds/videos might be just the ticket to “changing the culture.” [/quote]

I don’t dispute that. And I certainly wouldn’t claim that they don’t have a right.

Still, I’d personally like to see a lot more energy go into the other stuff. Condoms are the anti-abortionist’s best friend in this fucked up world. (And it is fucked up, no argument there.)

77

Small aside: last year I was visiting my girlfriend at her university and stumbled upon a huge commotion. It turned out that some anti-abortionists were there with signs displaying graphic pictures of the nature we’re discussing. I watched as a woman walked over to them, pushed them away, and then kicked the signs over and stomped on them.

Turns out, she was a professor. Of history. I couldn’t fucking believe that somebody who we all know is perfectly capable of waxing eloquent on the right to free speech, so long as it pertains to Pussy Riot and flag burning, was so intent on inhibiting that selfsame right vis-a-vis the pro-lifers that she was willing to get arrested in the process (which she did).

I also tend to agree that, if you’re going to argue in favor of abortion, you should know what an abortion is–and that includes what it looks like. I feel the same way about war, and fully support the printing of graphic images so long as they are newsworthy. In other words, I’m not saying I’m against the pictures, just that I want to see more people taking different angles. Because I really do believe that we shouldn’t even have to worry about abortion at all other than as as a much much smaller problem involving freak accidents and rapes.

78

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

…The amount of women out there who view abortion as a form of birth control is low…

[/quote]

Then why are 1.2 million babies dying every year?

I thought it was a “health decision?” Now you’re telling me it’s an economic decision.

Make up your mind for crying out loud.

OK, I never necessarily expected you graduated from the University of Pittttbulll but it looks like you may very well have.

I guess if large amounts of babies dying gruesome deaths every year is NOT the result of a “large amount of women having sex and then going to get abortions” then what IS the reason?

This can’t be! I read posts on a bodybuilding website that it’s a “health decision!”

Blatantly stupid, Swiss cheese reasoning warrants insults. Clean up your act, i.e., improve your reasoning for your position and you will see me treat you like a blood brother. I will knuckle bump and high five you left and right. You’ll be so proud.
[/quote]

In the long series of absolutely garbage nonsense responses this one takes the cake. It is a health decision. The health decision is largely made for economic reasons. Even you are smart enough to get that. Ever bother reading anything I post? Wait why would you, you have these deep seated FEELINGS to go off of!

Yet you act as if most women are going to the club, having unprotected sex, going to get an abortion, and then putting that on repeat multiple times a year.

It’s ok if you have nothing backing that, you have your feelings. And in Push’s world feelings are all that matter.

That’s ok though we want to end abortion so we will make it illegal. That works really well which is why we have no rapists, heroin users, or anything of the like. Because we all know making something illegal ends things.

Also in bizzaro Push world the government taking action results in less liberty than letting individuals make their own decisions. My head hurts just talking to you.

79

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

…When I say, “change the culture,” I mean something different…

[/quote]

I realize that. But you can’t have an “It’s my way or the highway” attitude about it.

For some, an internet discussion on a muscle/fitness website that entails logic and reasoning will be enough to “change the culture.”

For others, like a knocked-up young single woman who is thinking of beebopping down to the Planned Parenthood Vacuum Emporium to have the “parasite” removed as is her USSC granted “right” to make a “health decision,” seeing those photos/ultrasounds/videos might be just the ticket to “changing the culture.” [/quote]

I don’t dispute that. And I certainly wouldn’t claim that they don’t have a right.

Still, I’d personally like to see a lot more energy go into the other stuff. Condoms are the anti-abortionist’s best friend in this fucked up world. (And it is fucked up, no argument there.)[/quote]

Condoms, sex education, access to birth control, etc. This should be pro-choice AND pro-life’s first defense. Decrease unwanted pregnancies and you decrease abortions.

Also the very bane of many so called conservatives (statists push would say) who don’t view this as anyone’s place but families to teach. Because they are so obviously doing an awesome job!