Saved a Life!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
82

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

…The amount of women out there who view abortion as a form of birth control is low…

[/quote]

Then why are 1.2 million babies dying every year?

I thought it was a “health decision?” Now you’re telling me it’s an economic decision.

Make up your mind for crying out loud.

OK, I never necessarily expected you graduated from the University of Pittttbulll but it looks like you may very well have.

I guess if large amounts of babies dying gruesome deaths every year is NOT the result of a “large amount of women having sex and then going to get abortions” then what IS the reason?

This can’t be! I read posts on a bodybuilding website that it’s a “health decision!”

Blatantly stupid, Swiss cheese reasoning warrants insults. Clean up your act, i.e., improve your reasoning for your position and you will see me treat you like a blood brother. I will knuckle bump and high five you left and right. You’ll be so proud.
[/quote]

In the long series of absolutely garbage nonsense responses this one takes the cake. It is a health decision. The health decision is largely made for economic reasons. Even you are smart enough to get that. Ever bother reading anything I post? Wait why would you, you have these deep seated FEELINGS to go off of!

Yet you act as if most women are going to the club, having unprotected sex, going to get an abortion, and then putting that on repeat multiple times a year.

It’s ok if you have nothing backing that, you have your feelings. And in Push’s world feelings are all that matter.

That’s ok though we want to end abortion so we will make it illegal. That works really well which is why we have no rapists, heroin users, or anything of the like. Because we all know making something illegal ends things.

Also in bizzaro Push world the government taking action results in less liberty than letting individuals make their own decisions. My head hurts just talking to you. [/quote]

You gonna stick with that “health decision” deal, I take it?[/quote]

Of course it’s a health decision. Why the fuck do you think pregnant women go to the doctor? To get feedback and guidance on…their health! If health bothers you so much try individual decision.

That’s ok though, ignore huge parts of the post and comment on one part. Typical push.

84

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

…The amount of women out there who view abortion as a form of birth control is low…

[/quote]

Then why are 1.2 million babies dying every year?

I thought it was a “health decision?” Now you’re telling me it’s an economic decision.

Make up your mind for crying out loud.

OK, I never necessarily expected you graduated from the University of Pittttbulll but it looks like you may very well have.

I guess if large amounts of babies dying gruesome deaths every year is NOT the result of a “large amount of women having sex and then going to get abortions” then what IS the reason?

This can’t be! I read posts on a bodybuilding website that it’s a “health decision!”

Blatantly stupid, Swiss cheese reasoning warrants insults. Clean up your act, i.e., improve your reasoning for your position and you will see me treat you like a blood brother. I will knuckle bump and high five you left and right. You’ll be so proud.
[/quote]

In the long series of absolutely garbage nonsense responses this one takes the cake. It is a health decision. The health decision is largely made for economic reasons. Even you are smart enough to get that. Ever bother reading anything I post? Wait why would you, you have these deep seated FEELINGS to go off of!

Yet you act as if most women are going to the club, having unprotected sex, going to get an abortion, and then putting that on repeat multiple times a year.

It’s ok if you have nothing backing that, you have your feelings. And in Push’s world feelings are all that matter.

That’s ok though we want to end abortion so we will make it illegal. That works really well which is why we have no rapists, heroin users, or anything of the like. Because we all know making something illegal ends things.

Also in bizzaro Push world the government taking action results in less liberty than letting individuals make their own decisions. My head hurts just talking to you. [/quote]

You gonna stick with that “health decision” deal, I take it?[/quote]

Of course it’s a health decision. Why the fuck do you think pregnant women go to the doctor? To get feedback and guidance on…their health!

[/quote]

Tell me why it’s “unhealthy” to be pregnant.

To answer your question, pregnant women go to doctors to help insure the health of their babies and themselves.

On the other hand they go to Vacuum Center USA to insure the demise of a healthy innocent human being.

Again, you keep insisting out of one side of your mouth it’s a decision about health and out of the other side you insist it’s about economics.

[quote]

That’s ok though, ignore huge parts of the post and comment on one part. Typical push. [/quote]

Here, I put up your entire post. Are you a happy camper now?[/quote]

It’s an individual decision that is largely made because of economic factors ACCORDING TO RESEARCH on the topic of which you have probably read nothing other than the number of abortions in a year. I know you’re not a fan of research as you handwave away most of that “sciency” stuff but it tends to be a lot more accurate than what someone in Montana with 35,000 internet posts asserts.

Please continue to ignore what happens when we make things illegal (and here I thought you were a markets guy?).

Please continue to ignore lessons from history such as Romania and making abortion illegal there increasing number of abortions.

Please continue to ignore abortion rates in countries with restrictive abortion laws vs. abortion rates in countries without restrictive abortion laws.

Again, that’s all a bunch of research and economics things that I realize make you a bit uncomfortable because they may go against your viewpoint, (hey it’s cool we can always say liberal media right?) but you’d be surprised at the amount of social science done on the subject.

85

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

If a fraction of the energy spent on arguing back and forth over what is and probably always will be a stalemate were transferred to the thing we can ALL agree on, we’d be much better off.
[/quote]

you could have said the same about slavery before the civil war, prohibition in the 1920’s, civil rights before the 1960’s

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Showing pictures of aborted fetuses to pro-choicers tends only to make them hate anti-abortionists more.[/quote]

i think the same about pro choicers every time i see tv ads with syrupy sad songs “arms of an angel” and pitifully neglected dogs, cats etc…

if the public only saw a fraction of the aborted babies being thrown into garbage cans i tend to believe it would have the same powerful emotional effect as these animal rescue commercials.

it’s a crime against humanity that liberal media won’t ever let that happen. i also resent tax funded planned parenthood. whats the difference between tax dollars going to pay for killing a baby while your legs are spread open in stirrups or tax funded food stamps to help that baby?

“my body, my choice” has got to be the most disconnected and ignorant of liberal one step thinking. the same one step thinking could have kept blacks in slavery had all decided this is a stalemate.

86

All the sex education, birth control (condoms, IUDs, whatever your choice) in the world will never stop abortion because these methods are designed to fail. As they fail, abortion providers are there to suck the mess up. There is a reason these people want the government to fund healthcare and provide payment to Permit Pedophiles clinics. Of course this is after the cervix of a woman is cracked open and the fetus is slaughtered into tiny pieces, and then vacuumed out. Or the fetus can be poisoned alive if the child is young enough.

The best method is abstinence and after that NFP is far better than any birth control on the market. Why do people believe they have an opportunity to fulfill their urges and partake in an activity that is known to create life? Yet they are continually surprised when they become pregnant after behaving immaturely. There is a huge disconnect there if people don’t understand that sex creates life.

From the moment of fertilization the embryo is a distinct, whole, complete and living human being, simply at a different stage. The exact same characteristics used to define the differences in the unborn are used to define the differences between every person on this earth right now.

How many species of any animal in the natural world have sex with no repercussions? Are people really sure they want to be on the same level of playing field with those animals?

Nothing in life allows adult people to behave like immature children and then after the inevitable mistake, a “do-over” is given. If I am wrong, please correct me.

87

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
All the sex education, birth control (condoms, IUDs, whatever your choice) in the world will never stop abortion because these methods are designed to fail.[/quote]

What? The manufacturer wants them to fail? I hope you’re kidding or misspeaking.

[quote]
The best method is abstinence and after that NFP is far better than any birth control on the market.[/quote]

Abstinence is not going to happen in the vast majority of cases. It is a waste of time to believe that unwanted pregnancy can be eradicated through abstinence–it can’t and it won’t, ever.

As far as NFP being a “far better method,” it’s not anything like feasible. A] It’s extremely easy to screw up and, more importantly, B] it’s a great way to spread HPV, herpes, HIV and all of their esteemed colleagues. We have a hook-up culture. You may not like it, but that never changed anything. Most sexually active Americans give exactly 0 fucks about what someone else’s religion has to say about sex. If kids would simply wear condoms to hook up and take birth control in relationships, almost all of your abortion woes would disappear. And I doubt you’d disagree that a partial-birth abortion is a far greater evil than anything the Trojan Man has up his sleeve.

88

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you were raped and impregnated what would you do? [/quote]

What did you do?[/quote]
I used healthcare paid for by tax payers, went on welfare, foodstamps and WIC. Of course you have no problem with me using those tax payer funded entitlements since you believed I was not entitled to get an abortion because that fetus was human and thus deserving (entitled?) to be treated with dignity, a dignity that obviously did not end at birth. You are such a communist and I thank you for that.

Oh, I will also be taking advantage of things like Headstart and free meals at school when the time comes.

89

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you were raped and impregnated what would you do? [/quote]

What did you do?[/quote]
I used healthcare paid for by tax payers, went on welfare, foodstamps and WIC. Of course you have no problem with me using those tax payer funded entitlements since you believed I was not entitled to get an abortion because that fetus was human and thus deserving (entitled?) to be treated with dignity, a dignity that obviously did not end at birth. You are such a communist and I thank you for that.

Oh, I will also be taking advantage of things like Headstart and free meals at school when the time comes. [/quote]

I’d rather my tax dollars pay for all those services for the child, in the hopes that human will wins out and they end up making a solid contribution to humanity, than have that child have absolutely zero chance of being anything.

At least with the government transfers there is a chance of greatness, however remote. With abortion, the is little chance of anything other than death.

90

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you were raped and impregnated what would you do? [/quote]

What did you do?[/quote]
I used healthcare paid for by tax payers, went on welfare, foodstamps and WIC. Of course you have no problem with me using those tax payer funded entitlements since you believed I was not entitled to get an abortion because that fetus was human and thus deserving (entitled?) to be treated with dignity, a dignity that obviously did not end at birth. You are such a communist and I thank you for that.

Oh, I will also be taking advantage of things like Headstart and free meals at school when the time comes. [/quote]

I’d rather my tax dollars pay for all those services for the child, in the hopes that human will wins out and they end up making a solid contribution to humanity, than have that child have absolutely zero chance of being anything.

At least with the government transfers there is a chance of greatness, however remote. With abortion, the is little chance of anything other than death. [/quote]
That is a nice sentiment but how many anti-abortionists are also against entitlements?

91

[quote]H factor wrote:
Why don’t we let people make their own health decisions and not have the government force them to do either? [/quote]

You see though, there is the rub. The murdered child will never get the chance to make any of those same choices now will it?

The freedom of choice argument sort of implodes on itself as it ignores the freedom of choice of the child. That child is entitled to the right to life and the right ot make her or his own health choices at one point in their life as well.

[quote]
Not to mention (for the zillionth time) most of me being pro-choice comes from the knowledge that overturning Roe v. Wade won’t help anything and if women are going to do that then let’s at least make it in a safe place and not in a back alley. [/quote]

This is also part of the problem. You are 100% correct in that making abortion illegal wouldn’t stop them from happening.

So unless we are going to go down the Huxley route, we need to focus on culture change more than law change.

I for one think that we should start with getting to a point where we celebrate, and reward the family much more than we do.

92

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

That is a nice sentiment but how many anti-abortionists are also against entitlements? [/quote]

Going to depend on the program, and the individual.

Seeing as a whole lot of por-life people are religious, and the vast majority of churches help needy people, and most religious people give to churches, I would say not all that many are against helping the poor members of our society.

93

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

That is a nice sentiment but how many anti-abortionists are also against entitlements? [/quote]

Going to depend on the program, and the individual.

Seeing as a whole lot of por-life people are religious, and the vast majority of churches help needy people, and most religious people give to churches, I would say not all that many are against helping the poor members of our society.

[/quote]
I don’t think churches could support poor children for 18+ years.

94

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Why don’t we let people make their own health decisions and not have the government force them to do either? [/quote]

You see though, there is the rub. The murdered child will never get the chance to make any of those same choices now will it?

The freedom of choice argument sort of implodes on itself as it ignores the freedom of choice of the child. That child is entitled to the right to life and the right ot make her or his own health choices at one point in their life as well.

[quote]
Not to mention (for the zillionth time) most of me being pro-choice comes from the knowledge that overturning Roe v. Wade won’t help anything and if women are going to do that then let’s at least make it in a safe place and not in a back alley. [/quote]

This is also part of the problem. You are 100% correct in that making abortion illegal wouldn’t stop them from happening.

So unless we are going to go down the Huxley route, we need to focus on culture change more than law change.

I for one think that we should start with getting to a point where we celebrate, and reward the family much more than we do. [/quote]

If you believe it is a child at birth than clearly you would feel it had rights.

The argument only implodes if you feel that way. Clearly this is not something people agree on and I don’t feel like arguing when is it a child at this moment. If everyone agreed on that then their would be absolutely no debate to be had.

As for the markets thing not only would making abortion illegal not stop it, it would endanger the life of the mother if done in an unsafe manner. Are pro-lifers concerned about the life of the mother?

95

Church attendance has also been dwindling hard core for a while now.

96

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

That is a nice sentiment but how many anti-abortionists are also against entitlements? [/quote]

Going to depend on the program, and the individual.

Seeing as a whole lot of por-life people are religious, and the vast majority of churches help needy people, and most religious people give to churches, I would say not all that many are against helping the poor members of our society.

[/quote]
I don’t think churches could support poor children for 18+ years. [/quote]

Totally irrelevant to anything discussed thus far.

97

[quote]H factor wrote:
If you believe it is a child at birth than clearly you would feel it had rights.

I don’t feel like arguing when is it a child at this moment.[/quote]

So when is the child a child then? If not in your opinion, but in the pro-murder camp’s opinion?

Is it a Apple at birth? Nope. Is it an Eagle at birth? Nope. Is it a Zebra at conception? Nope. A Tree? Nope, again, not a tree either.

So if it isn’t anything but human at birth, and isn’t anything but human life at conception, I dodn’t see how it can be seen as anything but human.

I mean are there doctors or scientists out there that think it is magic fairy dust that grows the baby in the womb? Or do they know it is life that does it?

[quote] Are pro-lifers concerned about the life of the mother?
[/quote]

Yes, todays mothers and tomorrows mothers and fathers too.

Seems pro-choicers only care about todays potential mothers.

98

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
All the sex education, birth control (condoms, IUDs, whatever your choice) in the world will never stop abortion because these methods are designed to fail. As they fail, abortion providers are there to suck the mess up. There is a reason these people want the government to fund healthcare and provide payment to Permit Pedophiles clinics. Of course this is after the cervix of a woman is cracked open and the fetus is slaughtered into tiny pieces, and then vacuumed out. Or the fetus can be poisoned alive if the child is young enough.

The best method is abstinence and after that NFP is far better than any birth control on the market. Why do people believe they have an opportunity to fulfill their urges and partake in an activity that is known to create life? Yet they are continually surprised when they become pregnant after behaving immaturely. There is a huge disconnect there if people don’t understand that sex creates life.

From the moment of fertilization the embryo is a distinct, whole, complete and living human being, simply at a different stage. The exact same characteristics used to define the differences in the unborn are used to define the differences between every person on this earth right now.

How many species of any animal in the natural world have sex with no repercussions? Are people really sure they want to be on the same level of playing field with those animals?

Nothing in life allows adult people to behave like immature children and then after the inevitable mistake, a “do-over” is given. If I am wrong, please correct me.[/quote]

Birth Control has never been as available and cheap as it is now, still 1.2 million abortions per year.
The logic seems sound but the reality just doesn’t bare it out.

99

[quote]H factor wrote:

You gonna stick with that “health decision” deal, I take it?

Of course it’s a health decision. Why the fuck do you think pregnant women go to the doctor? To get feedback and guidance on…their health! If health bothers you so much try individual decision.

That’s ok though, ignore huge parts of the post and comment on one part. Typical push. [/quote]

It’s a health decision? I guess, if someone came up and shot you in the head, they would have simply made a health decision. A decision on your health and the fact that you don’t have one to decide on anymore. I can see the logic. Terminating a life is a health decision. A decision to remove health.

100

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you were raped and impregnated what would you do? [/quote]

What did you do?[/quote]

I think it was a threat…