Hey guys, I recently am 6 weeks into the Prisoner 22 test taper. My cycle was 100mg Test E + 400mg Tren E for 10 weeks. I had to go 2 weeks without Tren and Test at 9 weeks, so I guess you could say it was somewhat of a 12 week cycle. Oddly enough, my libido, bloat, and overall mood was the best it’s ever been during those 2 weeks… not the point, but just thought I’d put it out there as it might be relevant to my question.
I decided since Test E is self tapering, I’m going to try and let the ester self taper, instead of going 80 60 40 20. I figured that would just make shut down longer anyway. However, I really feel like putting on more size. I gained almost no fat during this bulk, so I’d like to do another bulk with the sarm LGD-4033.
Now I know LGD is test suppressive, and it seems like it would prolong shutdown, but it does not suppress LH and FSH. Therefore I’m wondering if my LH and FSH could recover while on a sarm? Maybe I could even recover faster, since my body sees test is low, and there’s nothing suppressing LH and FSH in my body? I don’t know, The HPTA system confuses the fuck out of me. Not saying I’m going to do this, but if my theory is correct, I think I am. Opinions guys?
Yes. Exactly. In my mind I think that the enanthate will self taper, so why run the taper and stay shut down longer? I don’t know if this has been tried before, guess I will be the first to try it? I have already purchased the LGD, it’s just sitting there waiting to be used. If I could use it now I would like to, instead of waiting for test to recover.
Didn’t even get a serm this cycle so I’m kinda fucked there haha. I had my last shot last week and yesterday + today I’ve felt really good. I actually went to the gym today and my lifts were up again… really odd. I think I’ll recover fine that way honestly, just debating whether I should start the sarm or not. Conflicted because I don’t know if my LH and FSH will recover while on the sarm.
Eh fuck it starting sarms next week pray my dick doesnt fall off
Edit: Also, the reason I’m not bothering with the taper is because 2-3 weeks of missing my shot I could tell I was recovering. So I know I’d be fine. I just don’t know if I’ll be fine with sarms. I can get pct if I must anyway, fuck it.
SARMs don’t shut down the HPTA. LH and FSH stay strong, lowered slightly if anything, while on SARMs. The part that fucks me is I don’t know if LH and FSH can recover while on SARMs. They wont lower it much, but I don’t know if it will come back up. SARMs have been used during PCT before to keep gains. Although Ligandrol isn’t the best SARM for this, it could still work with a SERM.
No actually. When you google “LGD Bloods” triple sarm stack doesn’t show up. I don’t even know what that is truthfully.
I don’t know if this link will get removed or not, but here’s an image of bloodwork ON LGD.
This doesn’t seem shut down to me. I understand these bloods are fantastic, especially compared to other bloods on LGD, but there has never been bloodwork showing 100% shut down with LGD.
I completely agree. And I do see it. Hence why I made the thread asking if you guys thought it would be possible. Not if it would be a good idea, it’s a terrible idea, but if it could be possible. Just thought I have some experience with this stuff and can get PCT if it’s truly needed. Or even go back on test for a bit and redo the taper. Just an experiment.
You gotta be kidding man. There’s a clear difference between “shut down” and suppress. Hell yeah it suppresses the HPTA, but shut down is 0 production going on.
I think you misunderstood my point. I was not commenting on the accuracy of your statement, as I am relatively ignorant on the subject. I was merely enjoying the irony of someone starting a thread and explicitly stating in the first post that “(X) confuses the fuck out of me” and a few days later in that very same thread making definitive statements about how (X) works. Terrific.
@byte, i am almost certain that bloodwork is fake, unless you personally know the person that posted it.
there is a clinical study conducted on LGD, and a 1 mg dose significantly suppressed testosterone and FSH in 3 weeks. most companies recommend dosing at 3-10 mg/day, as well, so it’s pretty logical to assume anything higher will result in more suppression.
same thing with ostarine. some people claim it’s minimally suppressive, but the dose used in the study was 3 mg, whereas most people recommend 25 mg.
also, i was never much of fan of P22’s test taper, either…
even 100 mg of exogeneous testosterone injected is going to suppress your own HPTA recovery… P22 went on the assumption that it would help you recover for some reason, but what it did would limit how MUCH you could recover.
most young guys prolly produce more testosterone then that a week, but not that much more. 200 mg of testosterone a week typically pushes most guys up to the high range of testosterone levels, and obviously the farther away you get from the norm, the fewer people fall into that category.
if you take a look at this study, you’ll see what various doses (25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg) of testosterone will do, compared to baseline after 16 weeks:
(side note: in the above study, they also injected a GNRH antagonist, so they could measure the effects of the individual dose of testosterone. so one could assume that 25 mg would not result in that low of a level, as your own body would produce enough to make up the rest…)
IMO, the test taper is only worthwhile in a few instances (drug tested athletes, athletes that cannot use SERMs for some reason) and is only worth doing if you take HCG along with the taper…
Long-term SARM user here… they don’t do shit to your HPTA! WTF are you steroioid noobs talking about, look at that one motherf*******'s bloods!
No but for real… I have run a lot of SARM cycles, mostly ostarine, and it is pretty asinine to even entertain the thought that it (and by extension purportedly stronger SARMS like LGD) has any place in PCT and does not have the same supressive action that traditional AAS have. It might have slightly less of an impact on LH and FSH, but it still negatively affects both of those and lowers free test, and this according to bloods I have had done personally, not some shit on google. And sorry if this is overly harsh, but if you want to recover properly, just keep running a serm, taper it and then head back for more gains
It’s not that I’m completely uneducated on the subject, I get how it works, but I’m no expert. If I was, I wouldn’t have made this thread, I get your point though
Agreed, however, FUCK IT!
I’m going to wait another week to start anyway. It’s been 2 weeks since my last test shot.
There is a good chance it was fake. I don’t know why they’d fake it, it was on reddit. But those bloods look amazing. I’ve noticed people with naturally high test get less suppression on sarms. It’s the people with low test that are usually in trouble.
I didn’t know clomid did that. Nice read man. Do you have any article going into extreme detail on how the hpta functions?
Got mixed feelings about it so far. Hopefully ends up okay.
SERM sides suck. Hate the feeling of being on a SERM. That’s why I gave the taper a shot. Also the advertised “Keep 90% of gains!” was eye catching.
This is how the taper is advertised to work. Clear your blood out for 6 weeks with small amount of test. Then slowly lower the dosage every week. Your HPTA will sense low test levels and start production on its own.
I think that’s false. In my opinion, this might be how the taper works.
100mg Testosterone Enanthate has shown to shut down test production by only 50%. Of course we are already shut down, so injecting 100mg of test wont magically start up our production again. However, I think what’s really going on, is since we’re putting an amount of hormone that is only semi-suppressive into our blood stream, our HPTA has a chance to slowly start up again, while we still have a good amount of testosterone in us to minimize the sides of coming off like we’d get with a traditional PCT (lost gains, acne, moody, etc). Basically we are only suppressing our HPTA with the 6 shots of test, not shutting it down. Then it slowly starts to produce test again. Hope I explained that right.
I agree that most of the time you won’t need any real PCT or anything with SARMS, waste of money, just pull through the week or two of recovering and lift hard. You’ll end up fine. However a lot of peoples bloods are different than that guys. As I said earlier I’ve seen the higher your test naturally is, the less suppression you get.
Just realized something. The taper suppresses, you eventually recover.
I’ve been off for 2 weeks, production must have started a little by now. SARMS suppress, you eventually recover…
Maybe I’ll start a bit sooner than next week. Got thinking to do.
