In this case it was clear she was being stopped because it is a traffic stop. The cop pulled her over.
Have I broken a law?
He told her she did.
Can you please cite the offense?
He told her and wrote a ticket.
The cop can ASK to do much more and whether or not she complies is up to her. He could ask to search her car, ask her to step out of the vehicle, or to search her. She does not legally have to comply with those requests. BUT, once an officer says you are under arrest, whether he is wrong or not you have to comply. At that point you can tell the officer that you do not consent to any searches. The saying goes, “you can avoid the time, but not the ride.”
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ok, Zeb, I am in agreement with a couple of things you said, I talked to an attorney and he confirmed yes an officer can order you to get out of your car and yes you should comply.
When she refused, was that enough to arrest her? And on what grounds?[/quote]
Failure to comply with a lawful order of a Police Officer. This is a misdemeanor in most states.
As I said above “failure to comply” is enough for the arrest to take place. The question is, did he see something in the car? Did she say something that we could not hear? Did she possibly give him the finger and we could not see it (a cheap arrest in my opinion but nonetheless illegal). But, when she refused to exit the car she broke the law [again]
Yes, I agree that was easy to see. It’s what she did BEFORE he asked her to exit the car that arouses my curiosity.
Ahha…there you go. If a Police Officer see’s, smells, or has reasonable suspicion that there is pot in the car or (obviously) in the persons system then absolutely he can order the individual out of the vehicle (in most states). If he, or in this case she resists we now have “failure to comply with the lawful order of a police officer”. Then she fights him while screaming profanity’s we have “resisting arrest” and possibly “disorderly conduct”. As you can see the charges add up quickly.
You have committed a common error.
Most people think that a police officer must first tell someone why they are being arrested and this is simply not the case. I think most believe this because of all the police shows “hold it you’re under arrest for…” But in reality the officer never has to tell the person on the scene why they are being arrested. So, the cop was in the right.
It could have possibly been handled differently. But then again the Police Officer has apparently done his job and did so by the book.
As for the police not being forthcoming as I said in a previous post they are most likely now in defensive mode due to the impending lawsuit which if not handled properly from the start by the municipality could cost them millions.
There are bad cops to be sure. But, from what I have seen in my lifetime they are very few and far between.
[/quote]
Encinia: OK, ma’am. (Pause.) You OK?
Bland: I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. When’re you going to let me go?
Encinia: I don’t know, you seem very really irritated.
Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it’s crap what I’m getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesnâ??t stop you from giving me a ticket, so [inaudible] ticket.
Encinia: Are you done?
Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.
Encinia: OK.
Bland: So now I’m done, yeah.
Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don’t mind?
Bland: I’m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?
Encinia: Well you can step on out now.
The situation obviously escalates from here- Cop asks her a question “if you don’t mind” she refuses, and suddenly is under arrest. If the claim is that not putting out the cigarette was disorderly, I think that is an incredibly weak argument.
This smells like a hunch or for you legal nerds, I do not think that her cigarette smoking in her car at the conclusion of the stop yielded anything close to what is constitutionally required for him to “detain” her or arrest her. He wasn’t even claiming a protective search of the car, he expressed that he would prefer she put out the cig “if she didn’t mind”- This guy does not deserve to serve and protect us
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Ok, Zeb, I am in agreement with a couple of things you said, I talked to an attorney and he confirmed yes an officer can order you to get out of your car and yes you should comply.
When she refused, was that enough to arrest her? And on what grounds?[/quote]
Failure to comply with a lawful order of a Police Officer. This is a misdemeanor in most states.
As I said above “failure to comply” is enough for the arrest to take place. The question is, did he see something in the car? Did she say something that we could not hear? Did she possibly give him the finger and we could not see it (a cheap arrest in my opinion but nonetheless illegal). But, when she refused to exit the car she broke the law [again]
Yes, I agree that was easy to see. It’s what she did BEFORE he asked her to exit the car that arouses my curiosity.
Ahha…there you go. If a Police Officer see’s, smells, or has reasonable suspicion that there is pot in the car or (obviously) in the persons system then absolutely he can order the individual out of the vehicle (in most states). If he, or in this case she resists we now have “failure to comply with the lawful order of a police officer”. Then she fights him while screaming profanity’s we have “resisting arrest” and possibly “disorderly conduct”. As you can see the charges add up quickly.
You have committed a common error.
Most people think that a police officer must first tell someone why they are being arrested and this is simply not the case. I think most believe this because of all the police shows “hold it you’re under arrest for…” But in reality the officer never has to tell the person on the scene why they are being arrested. So, the cop was in the right.
It could have possibly been handled differently. But then again the Police Officer has apparently done his job and did so by the book.
As for the police not being forthcoming as I said in a previous post they are most likely now in defensive mode due to the impending lawsuit which if not handled properly from the start by the municipality could cost them millions.
There are bad cops to be sure. But, from what I have seen in my lifetime they are very few and far between.
[/quote]
Encinia: OK, ma’am. (Pause.) You OK?
Bland: I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. When’re you going to let me go?
Encinia: I don’t know, you seem very really irritated.
Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it’s crap what I’m getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesnâ??t stop you from giving me a ticket, so [inaudible] ticket.
Encinia: Are you done?
Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.
Encinia: OK.
Bland: So now I’m done, yeah.
Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don’t mind?
Bland: I’m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?
Encinia: Well you can step on out now.
The situation obviously escalates from here- Cop asks her a question “if you don’t mind” she refuses, and suddenly is under arrest. If the claim is that not putting out the cigarette was disorderly, I think that is an incredibly weak argument.
This smells like a hunch or for you legal nerds, I do not think that her cigarette smoking in her car at the conclusion of the stop yielded anything close to what is constitutionally required for him to “detain” her or arrest her. He wasn’t even claiming a protective search of the car, he expressed that he would prefer she put out the cig “if she didn’t mind”- This guy does not deserve to serve and protect us[/quote]
If she was smoking pot right before being pulled over it would leave a scent. Every smoker knows that. So, when someone has been smoking weed and they all of a sudden have to talk to the cops, lighting up a cigarette is pretty much the only hope of covering up the smell, and it doesn’t necessarily work 100%. So if the officer got a little a whiff of some weed, and asked Bland to put her tobacco cigarette out, her refusal to do so could be seen as more suspicious and evasive then just merely disrespectful.
words or actions can be used to escalate or deescalate an encounter between two people
the person in the perceived position of power can use this to their end goal
the news media said she had job offers
oh shit now she has an arrest record an been in jail for 3 days how does that affect her state of mind that she probably wont get the job
people in power probably know this
@facepalm-I didn’t know that, and it could be the case. While I still disagree with the way the stop was conducted, he may have suspected weed in which case he would obviously be justified (in having her step out)
I agree with everybody here. The best way to deal with cops is politely. But in this case, this cop acted inappropriately. He escalated the situation. However she acted, though probably inappropriate, was not deserving of the reaction she got from the cop. When he asked her what was wrong and she told him, all he had to say was ‘I am sorry you feel that way, I am just doing my job’ and walk away. I have seen people freak out on cops way worse and those cops handle the situation much more professionally. After all, it is their job to be professional. The people they are pulling over for petty shit are not working.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
In fat, since the video age if anything police officers have gotten even better for obvious reasons.
[/quote]
Have proof of this? I mean maybe they are not shooting Irish Catholics while protecting Orange Order while they harass and disturb the peace in Hell’s Kitchen. But, I’d love to see some proof of this…
[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think I read somewhere on the internet or in a book somewhere that a police officer needs probable cause to search and arrest someone. Probably not relevant though. [/quote]
HFS, definitely not with these booger hooks in their fart factories.
[quote]pat wrote:
I agree with everybody here. The best way to deal with cops is politely. But in this case, this cop acted inappropriately. He escalated the situation. However she acted, though probably inappropriate, was not deserving of the reaction she got from the cop. When he asked her what was wrong and she told him, all he had to say was ‘I am sorry you feel that way, I am just doing my job’ and walk away. I have seen people freak out on cops way worse and those cops handle the situation much more professionally. After all, it is their job to be professional. The people they are pulling over for petty shit are not working.[/quote]
I have been pulled over multiple times. I am always polite. I politely tell them that my lawyer just told me not to answer any questions and ask if I am being detained or if I am free to go.
Out of the many times I have been pulled over, I have been laid down on the ground five times, arrested five times (one of the times I didn’t know my rights and AHP thought they should rip up my luggage and school supplies searching for contraband), and had one experience where I had a gun pointed at me with a not-polite police officer yelling at me in front of people in my community…so, polite doesn’t mean shit if you are standing up for your rights…sometimes.
Their utter callousness and complete lack of medical assistance is still what gets me the most. I’d expect trained first responders to at least be applying some pressure if not occlusive dressings and such. Them, fucking nothing. Shoot him, cuff him, let him bleed out, dig through his pockets to try to find something to justify shooting him.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
In fat, since the video age if anything police officers have gotten even better for obvious reasons.
[/quote]
Have proof of this? I mean maybe they are not shooting Irish Catholics while protecting Orange Order while they harass and disturb the peace in Hell’s Kitchen. But, I’d love to see some proof of this…[/quote]
We don’t have any proof that they were “bad” before everyone carried around a cell phone. It seems to me common sense that they are just a tad more paranoid regarding the handling of any case knowing that the person walking past might be filming them.
I could certainly be wrong but it does make sense no?
Out of the many times I have been pulled over, I have been laid down on the ground five times, arrested five times (one of the times I didn’t know my rights and AHP thought they should rip up my luggage and school supplies searching for contraband), and had one experience where I had a gun pointed at me with a not-polite police officer yelling at me in front of people in my community…so, polite doesn’t mean shit if you are standing up for your rights…sometimes. [/quote]
I’m curious as to why you were arrested five times. That seems like a lot to me.
Makes me wonder who would be stupid (or drugged up) enough to place their hands in their pockets and keep walking when a Police Officer is screaming at them to “get your hands up now” several times.
No compliance whatsoever.
I also wonder who they were after and why?
Did someone of his exact description (or he himself) attack someone? Did he just kill someone? Was there a murder committed by this guy who wouldn’t stop and raise his hands? Was he just a very stupid innocent person who didn’t feel like raising his hands because he thought he knew his rights?
Plenty of questions about that video.
But, yeah it’s good Internet fodder for those who want to dump on the cops.
In this case “if” someone is a violent felony suspect and they refuse to comply after several orders the Police Officer is well within his rights to shoot to kill.
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law.
Never ask questions beyond what you are seeing on a video. Watch said video make a snap judgment and then defend it for multiple pages
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law. [/quote]
It was reported the subject was flashing a gun in or around the convenience store.
FWIW, the subject had known gang affiliations and a felony warrant for failing to comply with conditions imposed on him for a robbery in 2012 he pleaded guilty to. Prior to the shooting he stated the following on Facebook:
“I feel my time is coming soon, my nightmears are telling me. im gonna have warrants out for my arrest soon … ill die before I go do a lot of time in a cell.”; and
“I finely realize I hit rock bottom. im homeless I havnt slept in two days … as I walk thrw this vally of shadow of death I am fearing evil. its about my time soon.”
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law. [/quote]
It was reported the subject was flashing a gun in or around the convenience store.
FWIW, the subject had known gang affiliations and a felony warrant for failing to comply with conditions imposed on him for a robbery in 2012 he pleaded guilty to. Prior to the shooting he stated the following on Facebook:
“I feel my time is coming soon, my nightmears are telling me. im gonna have warrants out for my arrest soon … ill die before I go do a lot of time in a cell.”; and
“I finely realize I hit rock bottom. im homeless I havnt slept in two days … as I walk thrw this vally of shadow of death I am fearing evil. its about my time soon.”[/quote]
He was homeless and posting on facebook? what a strange time we live in.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law. [/quote]
It was reported the subject was flashing a gun in or around the convenience store.
FWIW, the subject had known gang affiliations and a felony warrant for failing to comply with conditions imposed on him for a robbery in 2012 he pleaded guilty to. Prior to the shooting he stated the following on Facebook:
“I feel my time is coming soon, my nightmears are telling me. im gonna have warrants out for my arrest soon … ill die before I go do a lot of time in a cell.”; and
“I finely realize I hit rock bottom. im homeless I havnt slept in two days … as I walk thrw this vally of shadow of death I am fearing evil. its about my time soon.”[/quote]
He was homeless and posting on facebook? what a strange time we live in.[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law. [/quote]
It was reported the subject was flashing a gun in or around the convenience store.
FWIW, the subject had known gang affiliations and a felony warrant for failing to comply with conditions imposed on him for a robbery in 2012 he pleaded guilty to. Prior to the shooting he stated the following on Facebook:
“I feel my time is coming soon, my nightmears are telling me. im gonna have warrants out for my arrest soon … ill die before I go do a lot of time in a cell.”; and
“I finely realize I hit rock bottom. im homeless I havnt slept in two days … as I walk thrw this vally of shadow of death I am fearing evil. its about my time soon.”[/quote]
He was homeless and posting on facebook? what a strange time we live in.[/quote]
That’s what immediately jumped out at me as well … We have panhandlers around the city I live near who beg for money using cardboard signs standing at the bottom of off-ramps. I’ve observed, on 4 separate occasions, 4 different panhandlers texting on iphones … at least 2 of those I confirmed visually as Iphone 6s…(they’re most likely drug addicts judging by their physical appearance but I always find it strange and contradictory to beg for money while having a $600 device in your pocket).
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again…we know nothing about the shooting other than that video. But I am very curious to know more before making a judgment. Oops, I just violated the first rule of Internet law. [/quote]
It was reported the subject was flashing a gun in or around the convenience store.
FWIW, the subject had known gang affiliations and a felony warrant for failing to comply with conditions imposed on him for a robbery in 2012 he pleaded guilty to. Prior to the shooting he stated the following on Facebook:
“I feel my time is coming soon, my nightmears are telling me. im gonna have warrants out for my arrest soon … ill die before I go do a lot of time in a cell.”; and
“I finely realize I hit rock bottom. im homeless I havnt slept in two days … as I walk thrw this vally of shadow of death I am fearing evil. its about my time soon.”[/quote]
He was homeless and posting on facebook? what a strange time we live in.[/quote]
