These were all wars against ideologies, not a stated enemy. I hope you see this too
Agreed, but “We the People” also need to support said destroying of our enemy - and many did not. Political factors aside, if you find a war waged by your government morally repugnant - would you enlist to fight it? Would anyone?
This is why I say that the people need to support the war if the goal is truly to destroy the enemy; and in this case, the enemy was a fluid people that weren’t our enemies when we started, but would become our enemies by extension of our actions.
Glassing over Iraq or Afghanistan would most certainly have won the war in totality, but the people would not have supported it - even those who supported the war would mostly be against it (myself included).
Plenty of people found all these engagements morally repugnant. I don’t think that’s an issue at all. Most people would support clear goals and victory over nebulous occupation and rules of engagement that require your life being threatened before you can engage.
You would not need to nuke the country to achieve victory in Afghanistan. There were so many case where we knew where the enemy were and never went after them. There were many cases where the US were watching the Taliban move and transport weapons and did nothing. There were many, many opportunities to strike the enemy with limited, to no collateral damage, especially in the early days were on the run and rather than capture them, we let them disappear into Pakistan. Remember Tora Bora? The whole world knew where Bin Laden and a large enclave or top Al qeada assholes were and we let them get away. There were so many instances like this, it was unbelievable.
I think your under the impression there is some sort of moral way to fight a war, making nebulous goals and reasoning a more righteous and discerning way of fighting. I think perhaps you are under the impression, the goal of defeating your enemy necessitates war crimes. Neither is true. War is ugly. If you have to fight a war, the most moral thing to do is to end it as quickly as possible. There is virtually no scenario where a war dragging on is better than a war quickly ended.
That’s a fallacy in the minds of people in warring nations but that’s not what war is about. You think a majority of Russians believe in their righteous cause right now? We shouldn’t have even bothered in Iraq or Afghanistan if we weren’t willing to do what was necessary. Maybe if the general public understood what war really is and stopped romanticizing it, we can avoid all these “unwinnable wars.” Let’s reserve “killing people and breaking stuff” for when we are willing to actually do it.
But, the war is not meant to be won, now is it? That’s a whole different topic.
I agree with your entire post. The war was unwinnable under the context that it was started with, and perhaps the war shouldn’t have started at all. At least if we never went to war, we might have been able to avoid the implications of the Patriot Act.
My YouTube is flooded with these videos since the war started. Never watched a single WION video before that. She’s taking direct shots at everyone but Modi, lol. China, EU, US, Russia. Not surprising. She’s a good anchor though.
Natostan wars are meant to take money out of taxpayers pockets and put it into the hands of the elites. NATO exists to safeguard western capitalism. To call it a “defensive alliance” isn’t wrong, just as long as we reflect a bit over what it’s safeguarding.
Jamesons Travels, the old Marine on youtube says that a lot.
Just for the sake of clarity:
This is total war. When they pull up to towns and just start shelling train stations, apartment buildings, hospitals, and other civilian occupied buildings specifically, its total war.
What is being done by the Russian army is as ugly and disgusting as it gets.
Well no shit, he invaded a sovereign nation. And they are also winning this war. And I don’t want to live that shit also, but that looks fairly inevitable at this point. Not today, but soon without drastic change.
No, Sherman let off the Southerners easily. Another important point - he was military successful. Russians are not, so they’re razing everything to the ground.
So they’re not as bad. Got it. They’re still fighting an army of men, instead of women and children. Got it. Thanks for the history lesson and reassurance that America need not involve itself in the affairs of Russia and Ukraine.
US estimates of Russian dead are 6-8000. Ukrainian estimates at 13,500+. When you put that together with 3-4 times that many wounded, many captured, and the huge mass of vehicles and equipment destroyed, it’s not a stretch that tens of thousands of Russian troops have been eliminated as effective fighting troops.
Yes, we lost Afghanistan. And that was with much lighter casualties than the Russians in Ukraine. And the local populace was less openly hostile and the American people were more initially supportive. If anything, that makes me more sure that Russia isn’t going to win this in any meaningful way.
On a completely separate note, I think the refugee discussion should really take into consideration the demographics of the refugees. The Syrian and Afghani and other middle Eastern refugees are almost always disproportionately military aged men. The Ukrainian refugees are everything but military aged men. That should and does make a difference in how they should be treated. I have much more sympathy for women and children fleeing a war than a bunch of young men without the self respect to stand and fight for their homes and families. If a man leaves with his wife and children that is one thing. But the middle eastern refugees are mostly men who have left behind their mothers, sisters, wives, and children. They don’t deserve refuge.
And yes, that is a cultural difference. And coward culture is incompatible with our culture.
Side note, so as a life long yankee who just moved south i cant believe how many southerners are still butthurt about Shermans march and burning of Atlanta and Columbia. Its really odd. Its soft, subtle but its there. So naturally i enjoy bringing it up now with coworkers. Just fascinating really.
Probably the whole war. The South is conquered territory. For the last 150+ years this has not been a voluntary union, and any moral high ground the U.S. could have claimed is gone. It’s why I have to both roll my eyes and laugh when I hear someone talk shit about Russia’s actions one minute while having loved the actions of the 1860’s U.S. five seconds prior. So ridiculous.
So you’ve progressed from, “No one is saying that,” to “Everyone who is saying that is lying.”
What evidence are you looking for? Which sources would you believe? Perviy Kanal? I fully acknowledge that lots of people have reason to lie and it’s difficult to know the truth in a war zone. But regardless of the exact numbers, there is overwhelming evidence that the Russians are having a horrible time of it and it’s not getting better.
