Russian Military Buildup Outside Ukraine

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
625

I really don’t understand these people. America and Europe share way way way more values with Ukraine than with middle eastern states. Middle eastern states largely ARE uncivilized when held to our value and belief standards.

In Germany 80-90% of black people are not even immigrants but asylum seekers (most not accepted by the state yet) or illegal immigrants. I don’t know how the situation in Ukrain is regarding this but if it’s similar, I would get why real citizens of the state get priority. If it’s just an outright color thing, it’s obviously wrong to lump all together.

626

If you are basically OK with people being killed, let alone your government using your tax money to kill, just as long as those people have different cultures, don’t look like you and have different beliefs then maybe you aren’t as civilised as you think.

Human life has the same worth (except it’s your family which obviously means more to us) regardless of cultural backgrounds

Did the US government not falsify facts and an attack on a US ship to justify going to Vietnam?
Does the US not bank roll Israel’s modern day genocide and ethnic cleansing?
Did JFK not shut down proposals to fake an attack to create and justify conflict with Cuba?
(I can go on with most Western countries instead of the US)

So what values does the Middle East not meet that allows us to dehumanise them?

The difference is less about moralistic values and more about cultural and different beliefs…

627

I mean we could go with Afghanistan and the Taliban as the shining example here…

  • 4th highest crime rate per capita in the world. Ranging from corruption, assassinations/contract killings, drug trafficking, kidnapping, and money laundering.
  • Shari’a law, I needn’t expand on this
  • They supplied 85% of the world’s opium in 2020
  • Immediately fell to Taliban control when the US pulled support, despite nearly 2 fucking decades of us training and arming them to handle the situation.
  • Not allowing women to be educated, or have any sense of sovereignty whatsoever
  • torturing and killing of ethnic/religious minorities, along with anyone perceived as a government sympathizer
  • Using civilians (often women and children) as human shields
  • mass murder and gang rape (the latter was done as punishment for a woman who did nothing more than work as a midwife)
  • sexual appropriation of livestock
  • rampant incest
  • propensity to extremism due to low education and isolated communities, along with a demanding (to say the least) religious doctrine

But maybe it’s just cultural differences :man_shrugging:

1 Like
628

I feel like the middle eastern wars would get more attention if

  1. Those countries were major nuclear powers
  2. Those countries were once superpowers that the US fought in a Cold War with for much of the last century
629

I literally never said or implied that I’m ok with innocent people being killed.

They guy in the post said it’s racist that middle eastern countries get called uncivilized and I just said if you apply our standard, that is a fact.

Also, the other guy said Ukraine gets empathy compared to these countries. Two reasons:

  1. Ukrain just hit invaded by a world power, that’s not the case in any middle eastern war, they don’t get invaded by world powers, they just fight.

  2. Most of the time either way the winner will oppress the other side and there will be human rights violations. So we only root for the lesser evil. The winner won’t be anything like us.

I don’t agree at all with that statement. There is no evidence at all that Israel is doing an ethnic cleansing. Quite the contrary actually.

I don’t think gang rape qualifies as cultural differences. That’s to soft of a stance. There’s more stuff that middle eastern people do as @Andrewgen_Receptors explained that aren’t up to my standards for society.

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630

Countries taking away what rightfully belongs to people as ordained by God, does not make allowing it a “gift”. They violate natural law and thus are inherently evil. Governments do not determine people’s rights. They either respect them or violate them.

No, believing people think to highly of themselves is not a marxist notion. Believing people will elevate at any level is, because it can only be done by force. People, by in large, do not change. Ego is the hardest thing to change about a person, muchless a whole population. That’s why religion, within reason, is good, if not necessary for population. Because under the tenets, respected and unmolested by men, require humility. Again, this is what the hippies believed. They believed that if everybody could just take a step forward, meaning reduce their ego’s just a little bit, then the world would be a better place. It’s basically the same thing you are saying. And I don’t disagree with the notion that reducing ego would elevate society a tremendous amount, but to get people to buy in in large scale is an unsolvable problem.
See, one of the effects of LSD is it, at least temporarily, obliterates the ego. It was simple for the hippies to buy in, because their regularly suppressed their ego’s with LSD. So it was very obvious to them that reducing one’s ego is a way to greater societal happiness. But you can’t just give everybody LSD. You cannot make them respect God and religion, and you crush their ego by force, because that is evil.
Yeah, people think way too highly of themselves, but there is nothing we can do about it.

Questioning the validity of war with Russia over Ukraine doesn’t make one an isolationist. Wanting to go in and take over the situation in Ukraine without really careful consideration is crazy. The US is not ready for war. We are unprotected on our southern boarder, we are dependent on energy from hostile regimes, and our military has been purged of ideologically impure soldiers because of virtue signaling. Our military leadership are silly, unserious people more interested in political clout than running a competent fighting force. We couldn’t even beat the Taliban, how do you think war with Russia would go?
I just don’t buy the propaganda being peddled, right now. Some how Ukraine is teaming with Russian soldiers, but Ukraine is winning? Or putting up resistance the Russians cannot deal with? They have hundreds, maybe thousands of Russian POW’s? Really? Show us.
Half the pictures being distributed about the war weren’t from the war. And yet they were distributed, without so much as a reference, as if they were from Ukraine, when many were not.
I haven’t trusted the MSM for a long time, I have no reason to start now. I am not convinced of the information peddled and I am alarmed that politicians are getting on cable news shows and screaming about no-fly zones and shit like that.
And I will give the biden admin credit here. They have not fallen for the bluster, yet. I don’t hold out much hope they won’t fuck this up royally, but I hope I am wrong.

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631

This would be a topic which would probably derail the thread but if Israel using force to continuously and gradually remove more and more land from Native Arabs and then killing them if they refuse to leave is not ethnic cleansing then what is?

Apologies did not mean you specifically, I meant in general. However I completely see how my statement came across as if I meant you. Apologies once again.

Gang rape is not the norm in Middle Eastern countries (It happens yes, just like in European countties) and under their law’s is punishable by horrific manners including death.

There is a lot in @Andrewgen_Receptor’s answer such as:

Which conflicts with the biggest issue with those countries which is:

Which prohibits the above mentioned things.

His response had a lot of valid things, which despite being valid I do not think warrants dehumanisation, such as:

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think the world should be quite about Ukraine and I know it’s not because we don’t make noise about everything that is wrong, that we should make noise about nothing. Hopefully Russia backs down or is made to back down

632

[quote=“pat, post:572, topic:276763”]

FTR, this is something a psychopath does by definition (they see other people as objects instead of something that has innate special value above a mere object). It’s also manifest in chimp societies that are brutal, murderous, and still have war.

633

I can attest that in Germany, Sweden, France, Denmark and other European countries the only gang rapes that happen are by middle eastern men. In Sweden they canceled concerts because the incidence was to high.

India has rampant gang rape too. Even if it is against sharia law, it is a big thing over there.

634

I think the outrage about Ukraine is bigger also because it is in Europe and that inherently means all western countries besides the US and Canada are in very near contact with this thing. Also, the US might get involved if Russia attacks a NATO country which is not the case for any country in the Middle East. Also, Ukraine is a democracy and was on a very good way while I don’t see a democracy anywhere in the Middle East (besides Israel). There are also extremely strong trade ties between Ukraine and the EU.

It’s IMO absolutely clear why there’s more outrage and help for Ukraine.

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635

Thinking that hubris (and yes, the west has a problem with this) being reduced/eliminated is equal to relegating people to objects is asinine. That is not at all what I said.

Many folks get uppity nowadays if you don’t conform to their worldview or ideas and perception of reality. (Hence Putin invading Ukraine because he basically believes it is his - that seems more sociopathic than what I am suggesting).

636

Sorry, I maybe took what you said farther than you intended. You are then still in favor of people thinking of themselves as special at least in terms of value of human life.

637

Ukraine is in NATO?

Democracy? More like rampant corruption.

It is a developing country like many others. Corruption, poverty, etc.

What strong trade is it providing? Who is it going to?

And what about all the Africans?

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638

There is also a pretty good population of Ukranians here, and a lot of family ties.

But its not unlike leftist purse swingers to start screaming about racism, if for no other reason than its an easy opportunity to virtue signal.

2 Likes
639

There are way more people of Middle Eastern descent than Ukrainian. There are probably more immigrants from just one country in the Middle East.

Most of the reports of the difference in coverage I have seen are from Middle Eastern people and Africans experiencing the racism.

640

Did I write that? Find the quote

641

Does that mean that people can not or should not be concerned about this?

We should leave how we prioritize our concerns to other people who know better?

642

Ok.

And

So there is one.

Ukraine leads the rest by a long shot.

643

This whole post feels like a desperate cry for attention from race baiters.
The demand for white supremacy far exceeds it’s supply.

3 Likes
644

It does not seem like your points are well researched.

Ukraine is far closer (in values and also economy, politics and on and on) to European nations and the US than any middle eastern state besides Israel