Russians, or the Kremlin? I know a few thousand protesters does not make a country, but these people know what the result of their actions will be. Hundreds of arrests of common citizens voicing their disapproval of the invasion. Makes it feel like we’re not so different from each other, despite living in completely different conditions. I’d guess that there are a lot of good Russian people, being led by some bad Russian people. Maybe I’m being overly generous, but I’d like to think not.
1 Like
If by two you mean a large scale aggressive invasion on one side and existence on the other.
I mean America threatening aggression against Russia for what Russia does to a third place. America is not “existence.”
1 Like
I don’t disagree that there is some level of westernization of Russians. But I think we grossly underestimate the general nostalgic desire Russians have for the USSR and overestimate their general value of materialism (that’s required for the sanctions to work). Stalin’s approval among Russians has been increasing for decades.
1 Like
If you are isolationist to the point there is no moral line anyone can cross as long as it isn’t directly to your country, then we just have very different morals. At a point Our very existence as a free and powerful nation is a threat in itself. If they were to invade Mexico or Canada, would you take the same stance?
2 Likes
I used to have isolationist views, but I now believe that our continued presence as a benevolent, if sometimes corrupt, greedy and incompetent, superpower is still a net gain for the world.
Imagine what global trade would look like, sans the United States Navy.
3 Likes
What moral line did Russia cross?
No(unless there’s some far north island in Canada that used to be Russian or something that Russia wanted back-I’d say let the parties involved deal with that).
1 Like
When the cold fails to gain compliance, turn to war. 
I’m no expert on Russia by any means, and don’t intend to come at you as adversarial. No doubt their attitudes and motivations are different than ours, but I like to think their tolerance for atrocities towards other humans is comparably low.
The power (or lack thereof) of the citizenry to impact change, psychology among the population, and legitimacy of polling data coming from a communist regime are all factors with long and unproductive discussion we could have. I bet we’d see eye to eye on a lot, but I’m not educated enough to even begin down any of those roads.
I suspect the sanctions aren’t being levied with the Russian citizenry in mind. Maybe if enough of the powerful folks in the Kremlin start seeing their own financials crater they’ll off Putin themselves and recall their soldiers. Who knows, greed is a powerful thing, but I don’t think seeing their own population suffer will move the needle for them until they themselves start to suffer.
I’m still pretty isolationist. But I certainly have a line, and I have no qualms about substantial intervention when the line is crossed.
I don’t think that’s even questionable. Like it or not, the world is better with the US present and strong. I’m half tempted in this situation to let myself want the US to go “Fuck it, Europe can either step up to the plate or fall, the US isn’t going to do a damn thing.” Just for a glimpse of the world without the US standing up to the playground bully. It wouldn’t be pretty. European military power is pathetic.
Russia knows the importance and power of American international meddling first-hand. Without our material support prior to Pearl Harbor there wouldn’t be a Russian invasion of Ukraine today. All of that land would have become lebensraum for ubermensch, not the first of two fronts in the European theater.
Invaded an independent sovereign nation and are murdering hundreds of innocent people.
This is pretty shallow thinking. Everywhere used to be part of some other country. I think you need to think through the ramification of this thinking. Nazis had a right to all Germanic territory? the UK has a right to American soil? If the Ukrainian people wanted to be part of Russia they would be, and there’d be no war. If you get into the history of territorial claims for your morality on invading, there is an infinite regress for who has rights to what that literally would go back to pre-history.
But your overall take is pretty hypocritical. The Russians invading another nation isn’t crossing a moral line, but the US making threats of protection is? If it’s wrong for us to even offer protection, surely the Russians invading on the pretext of protecting the Ukrainian people is. If you want to hold that standard, then the Russians are absolutely morally at fault.
Did I say that? Stupid and immoral are different.
Edit:
I also haven’t talked about any country having a right to any territory.
Would they?
1 Like
Okay, I think I know how to solve the Russian situation…
Let Hillary and Putin both run for president! Hillary will succumb to Novichok Poisoning, and Putin will commit suicide via 2 bullets to the back of the head.
Problem solved
2 Likes
Ukraine could use some Pedro protection on the world stage.
Wilson, FDR, and Biden. What a group.
I’m not as pragmatist as you I guess. I’ll do some stupid things if they are the right things to do.
You said that it wasn’t crossing a moral line.
If you view starting a nuclear war over territories that want to be Russia anyway as “moral,” we’ll have to disagree.
I love war. It’s the only time the Left and Right can agree that MSM is legit. 
Yes.
1 Like
Genuine question. Where do you get the idea that Ukrainians want to be Russian?
It is not immoral for a country to invade another country that used to be theirs…