Russia Won't Go Away

As anyone and everyone would fully expect, @zeb1 has misstated a number of things. Here goes:

Incorrect. This kind of right after the event memo is fully admissible in court on its own merits - meaning, even if the person who experienced the event is unavailable to tell his story, the memo can serve as the exact equivalent of that person showing up and telling the story. And, if that person can show up to tell the story, such a memo buttresses their claims as to its truth (as in, it was close enough in time to help against claims that that person is misremembering). So, it’s anything but “diddly squat”. The memo(s), if they exist, are quite meaningful.

If Zeb knew what the Hell he was talking about - and he doesn’t, of course - he’d know that this isn’t the statutory definition of obstruction of justice in total. Far from it, there’s more than one statute, and the primary one has a bunch of subsections and (more importantly) catchalls that go beyond the narrow language Zeb (mis)represented. In fact, 1503a has such a general provision that criminalizes obstruction/impendiment of “the due administration of justice”:

These kinds of catchalls are designed precisely to make sure shady conduct is captured generally.

(Curiously, Zeb doesn’t provide a cite where he got his definition. I wonder why?)

As for the politics of how to handle the memo, the source hasn’t provided a copy of it, but if it does exist, my guess is that not providing a copy of it was intentional in order to trigger some elected official into officially requesting/subpoenaing it and all other related materials.

It’s hard to imagine Trump being brought up in charges in a court of law, but the court of public opinion is going to inveigh a terrible judgment if this memo exists.

But wherever this goes, operate on legitimate, truthful information - not on Zeb’s (predictable) misinformation.

Found Zeb’s “source” for the “statutory” definition of obstruction of justice - a copy and paste from Lawdictionary.com:

By your own misreading of my stance, if everyone lies then the people who say Assange works for Russia are lying.

Which is not proof that he is walking in lock step with Putin or that Putin has anything to do with Assange and Wikileaks. You do understand that what you have elaborated on is not proof. It is merely circumstantial evidence. And that means as you might not know based upon your other statements that we need either a string of circumstantial evidence, such as the one you presented, or better yet we need “conclusive evidence”. Conclusive evidence for example would be a signed letter from Putin to Assange saying something on the order of “Great working with you Juls baby…keep up the great work with Wikileaks. I will continue to help you all I can.”

There you go…

…now you have proof. But for some reason the left doesn’t care about proof when it comes to making Trump look bad…or for any other reason lately. If they don’t like a person he must be bad and that’s that…Not quite Guy…now run along

Did you require this same standard of “conclusive evidence” for any accusations against Obama?

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Are you kidding, Zeb?

Russia is run by an authoritarian regime that fully controls all media. That media is meant to further the Goals of said regime. You don’t get a television show because you can bring in advertising revenue.

If Assange did not further the Goals of Putin in some way (and we have seen the ways that he has); no show…no Vodka…and no young Russian girls.

Unbelievable.

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As usual you are wrong. I never said that it was not admissible did I? DID I? I said that it needed corroboration. And it does for a guilty verdict as you know councilor. No one gets impeached on a 3 month old note written by a fired employee. IF that note actually exists…and this is not just another anonymous source that the left has created.

Yes, and not one of them points to “I hope this whole Flynn thing can go away” being obstruction of justice. Ha…you know you need more than that …you know it! You are now 0 for 2.

IF IT DOES EXIST…Ha exactly! 0 for 3

Did you miss the part where I mentioned Impeachment? Yeah…you must have.

I think that makes you 0 for 4 Councilor.

Please name one specific accusation and I will respond to it. There are so very many…choose one…go ahead

Are you Mufasa?

There are a number of reasons that Assange might do such a show. And as I have said it is circumstantial at best. When do we hang someone on circumstantial evidence?

Answer: Never, unless it has anything whatsoever to do with Donald Trump then it is open season. We then accept anonymous sources…and accept bad evidence as proof. The country gets it.

Ha you guys are a riot.

Mufasa want to make a bet that this goes no where? As they say, put up or shut up.

You guys are fun…but I do have to get to work now. But I will back to play later.

No, it doesn’t need corroboration.

I’m not talking about impeachment (yet) - your point was that the memo is meaningless - DIDDLEY SQUAT, you will recall - and that is completely false. More importantly, the memo was written well before he was fired, so there’s no claim he did it in the heat of the moment to get back at Trump for being fired.

Oh Hell yes it can - no one is dumb enough to think that a line like “I hope it goes away” can’t be construed as a request or attempt to suggest dropping it. Trying to cloak intimidation/influence in language like this (“gosh, it’d sure be great if this thing that’s troubling me disappears”) doesn’t work - ask the mafia and those who prosecute them.[quote=“zeb1, post:768, topic:226860”]
Did you miss the part where I mentioned Impeachment? Yeah…you must have.
[/quote]

Yep. But most importantly, what I’m covering is your deliberate misrepresentations, which have become your signature. Notice how you slink away and avoid the fact that you misstated what obstruction of justice is all about? I ask you - wouldn’t it just be wiser not to fib?

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I haven’t made one…not ONE comment about whether or not Trump as going to be impeached, leave office, etc…so save your bets for someone else.

I have said that what ever does or does not happen to Trump will be of his own doing…not some “Left Wing Conspiracy”.

I admit I’m confused by this response, was it intended for me Raj?

No…

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Non-sequitur

Do you guys have any real evidence wikileaks is run by the Russians or not?

My point is that zeb was plenty happy to jump on conspiracy theories regarding Obama (and Hillary, for that matter) with far less than a hand-written note from Obama/HRC to (X) personally thanking him/her, but his standard for “real evidence” in this case is:

…while pretending that Assange hosting a show on a Russian state-sponsored network is “circumstantial” evidence. As Mufasa said…

Dismissing that - while swallowing whole the sort of YouTube-conspiracy-theorist evidence you posted during election season about Hillary - is patently absurd. Especially when a man as smart as Putin, if he is working (directly or indirectly) with Assange, is not nearly stupid enough to create the sort of paper trail necessary to satisfy zeb’s bar for “conclusive” evidence.

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Honestly TB you’ve been around long enough to know better than to call Zeb out. When I posted here regularly I often would google search his old posts to point out the hypocrisy. It goes back as far as Bush-Kerry. Zeb will apologize, deflect, and say what about Dems anytime a criticism is pointed out about a Republican. He didn’t complain when Bush did certain things, but followed it up with venom when Obama did something the same or extremely similar. Did he ever say anything like “it’s just a game both sides play it” with Obama? Of course not it was the end of the world every day. Now that he has an R to defend he won’t stop doing it.

You could take an hour and google site search (of course you’d have to search all his accounts) and point out hundreds of examples of his inconsistencies. He has ZERO principles, ZERO desire to see anything differently and will never change either of those no matter what evidence is thrown at him. If you would like to take the time to compile all the evidence of his lack of consistency it would be easy for you to do but like trying to discuss Trump with him it is a fruitless effort. He lacks the intellectual honesty to even try to attempt to be swayed.

Not saying it isn’t funny to come back from time to time and read people continue to school him, but that has been taking place for YEARS on this site. Trying to change people like Zeb or Raj is fruitless and part of the reason posting on PWI lost interest to me. But ten years from now you can come back and see Zeb losing his mind if we have a democrat in office and deflecting if we have a republican in office. And the cool thing is he will do that even if they have the exact same positions. His level of partisanship is so strong.

But hey ALL just a game, both sides do it. Go back and see how often he said that in the 8 years of Obama. Has he complained frequently about golf or taxpayer cost for things regarding Trump? Of course not. He’s not a democrat. Just keep in mind you’re arguing with someone who had a second account for years which often AGREED with his main account.

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@zeb1 At what point do you feel that Trump is no longer worthy of your ardent support and defense? What exactly does he have to do, be involved in, or inadvertently cause for you to say, “To hell with this guy!”

This is not an attempt to mock or troll you, I am simply curious.

Setting aside I was extremely liberal when I began posting on this site, I don’t recall ever interacting with you.

Who the hell are you?

Secondly, what major changes in opinion have you seen from the people you agree with?

It is my understanding that an FBI agent’s “302” (written and filed report) carries a great deal of weight in court, and is easily enough to ‘break the tie’ in a he said-he said court situation.

Speaking of corroboration: According to the report, Trump asked Pence and Sessions (who protested, then acquiesced) to step out of the room while he made his pitch to Comey. If Pence and Sessions testify to the effect that this transpired, that will serve as powerful corroborating evidence that Comey’s depiction is truthful.

Asked and answered (by Pompeo no less).

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And I responded by saying you have no good reason to have faith in US intelligence