Roots of Human Morality

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive

Gnosticism goes on what you know while theism goes on what you believe.

if you are not claiming any knowledge you are an agnostic.

If you reject all god claims you are an atheist.

If you hold these 2 positions (as most atheists do) you are an agnostic atheist.

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice” ~ Rush

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

So the problem is, atheists who promote their beliefs don’t have a word to describe themselves other than atheist which creates confusion on it being a religion or not.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

Atheism does not fit the definition of what constitutes religion. Push is just being childish.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive

Gnosticism goes on what you know while theism goes on what you believe.

if you are not claiming any knowledge you are an agnostic.

If you reject all god claims you are an atheist.

If you hold these 2 positions (as most atheists do) you are an agnostic atheist.

[/quote]

And the only requirement for being a theist is that you believe that God exists. Does that make you religious?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive

Gnosticism goes on what you know while theism goes on what you believe.

if you are not claiming any knowledge you are an agnostic.

If you reject all god claims you are an atheist.

If you hold these 2 positions (as most atheists do) you are an agnostic atheist.

[/quote]

You can’t both say you know for sure that there is no god while saying that you don’t know for sure. Most people ARE NOT both. I, for instance, associate with atheist culture, but I don’t think that there’s any way to know for sure like some of them claim. Therefore, I am agnostic, not atheist, not even part atheist.

[quote]ephrem wrote:

So explain in your own words how de Waal’s assertions lead to you conclusion, “That’s not morality. That’s executing a program. And it says nothing about the execution or the result.”

Sorry for the dyslexic-jab.
[/quote]

Morality= both good and evil for the remainder.

Because reasoning is employed later. Reasoning is not leading to morality, but coming later to justify a response/thought that was selected for in a specific environment by dumb processes. There is little ‘will’ involved. Arguably none. Programming.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive

Gnosticism goes on what you know while theism goes on what you believe.

if you are not claiming any knowledge you are an agnostic.

If you reject all god claims you are an atheist.

If you hold these 2 positions (as most atheists do) you are an agnostic atheist.

[/quote]

And the only requirement for being a theist is that you believe that God exists. Does that make you religious?[/quote]

Religion and being religious requires some type of worship. I don’t worship anything.

There are atheists who are religious as there are atheistic religions though.

For instance there are raeliens who believe ET’s created life on earth and all the different gods in modern religions are actually ETs Raëlism - Wikipedia

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

So explain in your own words how de Waal’s assertions lead to you conclusion, “That’s not morality. That’s executing a program. And it says nothing about the execution or the result.”

Sorry for the dyslexic-jab.
[/quote]

Morality= both good and evil for the remainder.

Because reasoning is employed later. Reasoning is not leading to morality, but coming later to justify a response/thought that was selected for in a specific environment by dumb processes. There is little ‘will’ involved. Arguably none. Programming. [/quote]

I will have to speak for de Waal here but it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t believe in freewill either.

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Are you a rabid America hating secularist totally engrossed, and enthralled for that matter, in the religion of atheism and an avid evangelist on its behalf, ephrem? [/quote]

If atheism is a religion, then what is not a religion? And is it possible to believe in a god and not have a religion?[/quote]

It is technically not a religion but its followers are indeed religious in their fervor to promote their belief in unbelief. They have a core set of beliefs that are taken on faith. They are in fact religious.

As to the second question maybe you might want to address that one. You tell me.[/quote]

I am partially with you on this one. So, would you say that agnosticism is a religion?
[/quote]

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive

Gnosticism goes on what you know while theism goes on what you believe.

if you are not claiming any knowledge you are an agnostic.

If you reject all god claims you are an atheist.

If you hold these 2 positions (as most atheists do) you are an agnostic atheist.

[/quote]

You can’t both say you know for sure that there is no god while saying that you don’t know for sure. Most people ARE NOT both. I, for instance, associate with atheist culture, but I don’t think that there’s any way to know for sure like some of them claim. Therefore, I am agnostic, not atheist, not even part atheist. [/quote]

Here let me paste this for you, perhaps I’m not explaining it well. But you are an athiest

Q: What’s the difference between an atheist and an agnostic?

A: It has to do with the difference between what you believe and what you think you know. For any particular god that you can imagine, a “theist” is one who has a belief in that god. In contrast, an “atheist” is one who does not have a belief in the god. A “gnostic” is one who knows about the existence of god and an “agnostic” is one who thinks that god is unknowable.

Notice that the terms “atheist” and “agnostic”, by these definitions, are not mutually exclusive. You could be an agnostic atheist, meaning you don’t think that the existence of gods is knowable, but you don’t choose to believe in one without further proof. Many people assume that atheists believe that gods can be proved not to exist, but this isn’t strictly true and there is no proper word to describe this. You could call such a person an “untheist”, perhaps. Or, you could just call such a person a “gnostic atheist”, one who doesn’t believe in a god and thinks that his non-belief can be proved.

So there are four possible ways one could be.

  1. Agnostic-Theist: believes god exists, but the existence of a god is unknowable
  2. Gnostic-Theist: believes in a god for which he claims knowledge
  3. Agnostic-Atheist: does not believe god exists, but it can’t be proved
  4. Gnostic-Atheist: believes it can be proved that god does not exist

Case 3 is sometimes referred to as “weak atheism” and case 4 is sometimes referred to as “strong atheism”. Only strong atheism positively asserts that there are no gods.

Finally, it should be pointed out that when a person is asked about their beliefs and replies that they are agnostic, they are avoiding the question and answering a different one. Someone who can’t positively say he/she believes in a god is an atheist.