[quote]therajraj wrote:
So tell me theists, where does morality come from?[/quote]
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. [/quote]
Cool.
Now demonstrate
god exists
That he/she/it handed down morals to us[/quote]
Do you really want to go there with number one? Do you have that much time? I don’t believe I have leveled my cosmology spiel on you, but if you are willing to do some work, we can discuss.
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter, you can’t get to a monotheistic creator from any cosmological argument and you sure as hell can’t prove god handed down morals to us.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Sure, we are a drop in the bucket in terms of the universe. That doesn’t mean shit.[/quote]
It’s a little troubling at least to me that religions are claiming we are the centre of the universe when it is highly unlikely. It doesn’t disprove god, but it definitely weakens most of the specific god claims
“The Gospels were written within a very very shorter time after the happening of the events - 40 years or so after Jesus’ death (compare that to the 400 years after Alexander’s death when Alex’s history was written down !)”
“It is of utmost importance, in fact, to recognize that such accounts of the life of an important person written only 40-70 years after his life and contained in thousands of existing manuscripts (there are over 5,000 existing New Testament manuscripts alone) is unheard of for other famous individuals in history. And it is likely that the accounts of the New Testament were written in some cases only 20-30 years after Jesus? death. This means there were people still alive who could refute or exonerate the accounts. This is why Paul mentions that there were over 500 people who saw Jesus alive, or why the Gospels mention Simon of Cyrene who was forced to carry Jesus? cross, or other individuals who could be asked about these facts.”
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So tell me theists, where does morality come from?[/quote]
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. [/quote]
Cool.
Now demonstrate
god exists
That he/she/it handed down morals to us[/quote]
Do you really want to go there with number one? Do you have that much time? I don’t believe I have leveled my cosmology spiel on you, but if you are willing to do some work, we can discuss.
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter, you can’t get to a monotheistic creator from any cosmological argument and you sure as hell can’t prove god handed down morals to us.[/quote]
[quote]therajraj wrote:
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
When you look at the dating of the hadiths versus the dating of the Gospels, it is evident Muslims should not be so dismissive of Christian revelation:
Matthew was written most likely by the Apostle Matthew within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection.
Mark was likely written by a disciple of the Apostle Peter within 30-40 years of Jesus? death and resurrection and within Peter?s lifetime.
Luke was written within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection. Luke was not an eyewitness, but travelled all over the Roman world interviewing eyewitnesses (Luke 1:1-4).
John was written by an eyewitness (John 21:24), probably the Apostle John. Scholarly dating generally ranges from 40-80 years after Jesus? death and resurrection.
I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Sure, we are a drop in the bucket in terms of the universe. That doesn’t mean shit.[/quote]
It’s a little troubling at least to me that religions are claiming we are the centre of the universe when it is highly unlikely. It doesn’t disprove god, but it definitely weakens most of the specific god claims[/quote]
I don’t know what religion claims that the earth is the center of the universe. That was dispelled centuries ago. I think it’s pretty clear that we are not, as far as we know, the center of the universe. Maybe some jungle religions that don’t have any access to faith. It wouldn’t have been unusual for man to think that the earth is the center and everything revolved around it in a much smaller sense. The point of reference leads to that. Further, there are likely quadrillions of planets in the universe. Chances are, several thousand of them are capable of sustaining life.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
[quote]therajraj wrote:
When you look at the dating of the hadiths versus the dating of the Gospels, it is evident Muslims should not be so dismissive of Christian revelation:
Matthew was written most likely by the Apostle Matthew within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection.
Mark was likely written by a disciple of the Apostle Peter within 30-40 years of Jesus? death and resurrection and within Peter?s lifetime.
Luke was written within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection. Luke was not an eyewitness, but travelled all over the Roman world interviewing eyewitnesses (Luke 1:1-4).
John was written by an eyewitness (John 21:24), probably the Apostle John. Scholarly dating generally ranges from 40-80 years after Jesus? death and resurrection.
It’s from that book[/quote]
Islam wouldn’t exist had it no been for Christianity. You’re welcome.
And what all that has to do with anything I am not sure. What’s your point?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
False on both counts. There is extra biblical evidence for Jesus existence and the bible was not written 40 years after the crucifixion. Further, despite the Romans meticulous record keeping, most of the records are lost forever. Maybe you should use some more reliable sites then ones who make such stupid and ridiculous false claims.
Further, very few things from 2000 years ago have multiple sources of verification. And further, further, archaeologists are finding biblical evidences all the time in the said Holy Land. You can expect that number to go up since Iraq is a friendly nation and much of biblical history takes place around the Euphrates.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
When you look at the dating of the hadiths versus the dating of the Gospels, it is evident Muslims should not be so dismissive of Christian revelation:
Matthew was written most likely by the Apostle Matthew within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection.
Mark was likely written by a disciple of the Apostle Peter within 30-40 years of Jesus? death and resurrection and within Peter?s lifetime.
Luke was written within 40-70 years of Jesus? death and resurrection. Luke was not an eyewitness, but travelled all over the Roman world interviewing eyewitnesses (Luke 1:1-4).
John was written by an eyewitness (John 21:24), probably the Apostle John. Scholarly dating generally ranges from 40-80 years after Jesus? death and resurrection.
It’s from that book[/quote]
Islam wouldn’t exist had it no been for Christianity. You’re welcome.
And what all that has to do with anything I am not sure. What’s your point?
[/quote]
[quote]therajraj wrote:
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
The first Gospel was written roughly 40 years after the alleged crucifixion of christ[/quote]
My point, which you refuted. No?[/quote]
I refuted the point that the bible was not written 40 years after the death of Christ. The bible was composed of between 66 and 73 books (depending on who you talk to) and it was composed by over 40 authors over a 1500 year period. The gospel of Mark was thought to be written in 70 AD about 37 years after the death of Christ. I still don’t under stand you point. I supposed the apostles should have recorded the Crucifixion on their iPhones?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
" Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus’ death."
The first Gospel was written roughly 40 years after the alleged crucifixion of christ[/quote]
My point, which you refuted. No?[/quote]
I refuted the point that the bible was not written 40 years after the death of Christ. The bible was composed of between 66 and 73 books (depending on who you talk to) and it was composed by over 40 authors over a 1500 year period. The gospel of Mark was thought to be written in 70 AD about 37 years after the death of Christ. I still don’t under stand you point. I supposed the apostles should have recorded the Crucifixion on their iPhones?[/quote]
I was referring to the part where Jesus comes in - The gospels.
The point? For a question as important as the meaning of life, I need more than just the writing and accounts of a goat herder from the bronze age.