Rudy’s defensive strategy:
[quote]unbending wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
You think Ron Paul won’t make a good leader…that is fine…but you must have been asleep these last 6.5 years to think that 4 more years of the same rhetoric and demagoging are what this country need.
I urge you to wake up!
Hey man! Don’t rag on Bush.
He’s a real man. Not like the sissy leaders before him. He does whatever he wants with no regard for anyone else. He’s a real cowboy.
And if he wants to plunge the country into Economic depression and strip down the rights of the citizens one by one until everyone is deemed a criminal of some sort, that’s his prerogative. He’s a real good President.
Vote in one that is better. Ron Paul is a sissy cause he actually cares. Who wants that?[/quote]
unbending,
I don’t think you’ve written a single post of any value to anyone
Seriously, you have to be the most caustic poster here.
Not only that, but, your “facts” are false.
For example, “ecomomic depression.”
Where exactly? Not in the U.S. The economy is booming.
In summary, you might want to consider spending your time doing something productive.
I suggest reading.
You’re welcome.
JeffR
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
First you say this:
We are not supporting him because we think he is popular or that he has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.
And then you say this:
Does he have a chance of winning…no greater or lesser than any other candidate at this time.
Which is it? You seem confused, even for a Paul supporter.
[/quote]
That is both consistent and true–they are not mutually exclusive. He has as much chance of winning as anyone else in the Republican Party…and we don’t care about his perceived popularity in the mainstream media. Our desire for a Paul presidency isn’t driven by the perceptions of pop-culture.
If he was more “popular” I wouldn’t care and I’d still want him to win.
Thinking that 20-somethings aren’t “mature” enough to contribute to political dialog is both naive and elitist. I am surrounded by 20-somethings on a daily basis who would blow you out of the water with political diatribe (I base this on the fact that you haven’t made one argument against his perceived electability). FACT: I am not 20-something and haven’t been for the greater part of a decade.
Hey, if you don’t understand what we are saying we can’t fault you for that…maybe we aren’t being clear enough or maybe you just DON’T GET IT. My point is that his “perceived electability” doesn’t matter. We are only interested in the issues…which you have not contributed to in one of your posts.
Your interest in his “electability” is superficial because neither you, myself, nor any other person can predict the future based on flawed statistics. And I am definitely not interested in the predictions of commercially paid talking-heads.
Action, principle, dedication, honor…that is all that matters to me.
You’ll have to forgive me, after reading your posts, I cannot buy your “politically mature” superiority BS…
We may be voting for the losing candidate but we will vote and do so knowing that we aren’t wasting our vote or our voice.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
unbending wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
You think Ron Paul won’t make a good leader…that is fine…but you must have been asleep these last 6.5 years to think that 4 more years of the same rhetoric and demagoging are what this country need.
I urge you to wake up!
Hey man! Don’t rag on Bush.
He’s a real man. Not like the sissy leaders before him. He does whatever he wants with no regard for anyone else. He’s a real cowboy.
And if he wants to plunge the country into Economic depression and strip down the rights of the citizens one by one until everyone is deemed a criminal of some sort, that’s his prerogative. He’s a real good President.
Vote in one that is better. Ron Paul is a sissy cause he actually cares. Who wants that?
unbending,
I don’t think you’ve written a single post of any value to anyone
Seriously, you have to be the most caustic poster here.
Not only that, but, your “facts” are false.
For example, “ecomomic depression.”
Where exactly? Not in the U.S. The economy is booming.
In summary, you might want to consider spending your time doing something productive.
I suggest reading.
You’re welcome.
JeffR
[/quote]
You call that undead creature kept alive by (underreported) inflation, deficit spending, a dollar that drops like a stone and an ongoing war a “boom”?
But hey, please get rich by printing and borrowing money and by wasting it on the biggest federal budget EVER.
Are you sure you are a Republican?
If this thread is going to be hijacked by idiots then I intend to start another one for news related to Ron Paul’s campaign. News only.
Mick28 is an idiot who very strongly believes that he is right. There’s nothing that can be done about such people until they are disproved by reality, at which point they disappear into the holes from which they came.
It’s not the fact that he is expressing his views, which happen to be unsupportive of Ron Paul. It’s the manner in which he’s doing it - spamming up the thread, making multiple consecutive posts, only to state the exact same point over and over again. And he brags about his intention to keep it up for the next 6 months. That’s trolling, folks.
There IS a line between legitimate criticism and flaming, and he crossed it long ago. That’s why I started ignoring his posts completely
I would never ignore any honest, legitimate criticism of Ron Paul. However, I refuse to give attention to trolls. I stopped responding to Mick, and I would strongly advise everyone else to do the same. If he keeps spamming the thread, we can report him to the mods and get him warned or kicked off. However, that won’t work while people are taking his bait.
Please, don’t try to reason with Ferrous Cranus. Ignore him, let him post his rant once per page, and if it gets to be more frequent than that, we can report him to the mods and get him kicked out.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
You are now stating that each and every candidate in the republican party only has “a snow balls chance in hell.”
You see, you’re not making sense.
[/quote]
Mathematically, every candidate in the Republican party has the exact same chance of winning the primary, assuming the elections are fair–we cannot use unscientific polling data to make predictions–or at least, intelligent gamblers wouldn’t.
Sorry, I misunderstood you. Words are an imperfect means of communication.
Wrong. I chalk it up to having no other choice and principle.
He already has been elected to congress. In fact, he has more experience in government than our current figure head.
But what is it based on…you have NEVER specifically stated that? It is only your perception. I have a different perception–obviously.
Anything presented in an unscientific manner; any popular opinion polls presented by the news media–they never make their data collection methods available. They never publish any specific questions they ask in their polling. If I, as a scientist, presented data to my colleagues in such a fashion I’d be laughed at. These polls are completely unscientific and purely for entertainment value only.
Losing is a part of life…not everyone can win…especially in these quadrennial national popularity contests.
No, I never called you politically immature…I said I wasn’t buying your “politically mature superiority BS”–as in, you are obviously only 22 years old with the dialog skills to match. You can read that as “immature” if you like.
maybe…maybe not.
No, it isn’t just about winning…that is true.
You still haven’t offered a message.
We are all products of our environment. I observe the universe for a living. Every living, breathing, thinking, emotional creature is biased. That is a fact of nature. To be unbiased is to have no capabilities of observation. Observation makes one biased.
Why do you hate Ron Paul so much? it must be hard for you to sleep at night thinking of all the clever, little quips to make your opinion seem more valid than it actually is.
Why don’t you start a thread entitled “RON PAUL HAS NO CHANCE IN HELL”? That could be something fun to do with your spare time and you might actually get more support from the RP haters…but most importantly your opinions will be validated and you could sleep better at night.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
[/quote]
Hey Nominal, you seem to be in the know about other politics forums etc…you have any good suggestions where I might find the debate to be a little more sophisticated and civil?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
Hey Nominal, you seem to be in the know about other politics forums etc…you have any good suggestions where I might find the debate to be a little more sophisticated and civil? [/quote]
Absolutely (and for anyone else, as well). Check your inbox.
Ron Paul Moves Into the Top Tier, Suggesting All His Support is Real
http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-071207.html
Gambling911.com Special Contributor Jennifer Reynolds has a lot to say about 2008 Presidential candidate Ron Paul and the continued “disrespect” he is receiving in the media, a “disrespect” not shown by online oddsmakers who give Ron Paul a respectable 15 to 1 odds of winning the 2008 US Presidential Race.
Ron Paul continues to be among the most sought after subjects on the Gambling911.com website.
His political web-based strategy has caught the attention of other politicians across the US from Hillary Clinton - who incorporated a brilliant online video taken from the Sopranos finale - right down to local political races including those in Gambling911.com’s own stomping grounds of Miami Beach where preservationist mayoral candidate Matti Bower is planning a major YouTube-focused campaign while Commissioner Michael Gongora (running for re-election) already is.
“Paul at his age is the last person you would think to be Internet savvy,” says Gambling911.com’s political analyst, Carrie Stroup. "For all we know, he may not even be able to log onto a computer. But he’s got great people behind him that are pushing the online initiative and it is working in a major way.
The appeal is to a younger, more Internet experienced audience whereas the mainstream media tends to gather opinions from a much more mature segment of society who may not be quite as familiar with the Internet."
And this could explain the sometimes blatant disregard of Paul in the mainstream media as Ms. Reynolds discusses below.
In the second quarter, Ron Paul is reporting that he has 2.4 million cash on hand. That is more money than “front-runner” John McCain.
Now, the mainstream media has never really offered up their methodology for deciding who gets to be called “top tier” but if Ron Paul now has more cash on hand than John McCain (a former top tier candidate) more Meetup groups than all the other candidates, is the number one searched term on Technorati, and number one in YouTube subscriptions, then he must have moved into the top tier by now.
For months now, most mainstream media reports of Ron Paul and his massive Internet popularity have claimed that his supporters are really spammers �?? just a few nuts pushing for Ron Paul with the computer savvy to �??look�?? like thousands of individuals. The underlying implication is “what else could it be?”
When Ron Paul won or came in second in the first three Republican national debates the mainstream media claimed that his support had been faked somehow and the numbers must be skewed. When Ron Paul got twice as many supporters to attend his rally as the forum to which he was the only candidate not invited, they called it a fluke or lied about the numbers.
When they have nothing else bad to say, they pull out the trump card and claim that Ron Paul is only polling at 1%. However, these official polls cited by the mainstream media only question several hundreds of respondents. In online polls with a much higher response rate Ron Paul is winning by a landslide. See CNN’s debate poll of 25,000 responses after the third debate and MSNBC’s poll with over 72,000 responses after the first debate.
On ABC recently, George Stephanopoulos was so disrespectful in his interview that he actually laughed at Dr. Paul when he suggested that he was in it to win it. Georgie boy was willing to bet everything he has in his pocket against Paul’s chance of winning the presidency. (Watch the video and then Google the blogs of the interview.
A lot of people were not too happy with GS’s show of disrespect.) Mr. Stephanopoulos, in order for it to be a real bet we need to know how much money you had in your pocket. Please let us know. Ron Paul is still listed with 15 to 1 odds of winning the 2008 US Presidential Race as of press time July 12, 2007.
The American people are fed up with being fooled, fed up with being manipulated, fed up with being stripped of their liberties. The media has been telling us what to think for so long, and cannot fathom that We the People are now thinking for ourselves.
We are learning what is really going on as opposed to the nonsense they try to tell us. We are learning that the Federal Reserve is costing us a fortune, and we are learning what the Federal Reserve is. We are learning the difference between monetary and price inflation. (The former is caused by the government when they borrow dollars and ask the Fed to print more money; the latter is caused by the former.)
We are learning that a non-interventionist foreign policy will keep us safer than attacking every country willy-nilly. Who is our teacher? Ron Paul. Who is the only person telling the truth? Ron Paul. Do you know what else we are learning? We are learning just how biased the mainstream media is to a small government message.
They try to fool us with a false dichotomy of conservative vs. liberal, but really both sides are for big government. The real division in this country is between statists and non-statists. The statist believes the Federal Government should take all your money and then tell you how to live. The non-statist wants to keep their own money, be left alone, and make their own decisions on how to live.
That is what confused Stephen Colbert so much and why Ron Paul does not seem to fit into any one category. Ron Paul is a non-statist, pro-constitutionalist.
People are tired of seeing the wealth disparity between those who have the power and those who don’t. The only way to stop the abuse of power is to take the power away. People are starting to doubt that all we need is a generous person in power.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We must take the power away from politicians in order to stay free. Ron Paul has proven he will work to reduce the size, scope, expense, and predation of government.
He consistently votes against bills that give the government more power. He has voted against any bill that would give the government control of the Internet. For decades he has consistently voted against any bill that violates the constitution.
He has never voted for a Congressional pay raise, he will not accept his Congressional pension, and he refused to let his kids take out school loans because he thought it was immoral. Why immoral? Because the government has no money and the only way it can give money to people is to take it from others. That is called stealing. We were taught that in 2nd grade. Ron Paul is teaching what it means to be moral.
If all the support for Ron Paul is real, and all those thousands of people in the Meetup groups are not bots, then the message is clear: the people are getting fed up and want their liberties back. The mainstream media loses credibility and readership (and viewership) as over and over they have exhibited shameful acts of blatant bias throughout this campaign. The good news is that the people are not being swayed by the biased reporting and are starting to voice their displeasure.
A fundamental shift is taking place in this country. People are learning how they have been manipulated and used. Thanks to the Internet, real news is leaking out. Thanks to sites like this we can stay truly informed and learn the things the bigwigs want to keep silent. We the People are tired of losing liberties. People are noticing what has been done to them and they don’t like it.
They are looking for someone to make a real shift in this country. They are looking for someone they can trust. Ron Paul is that person. He has remained consistent in his voting record and the way he lives his own life. How can you tell how a person will behave in the future: look at how they have behaved in the past.
Become one of the informed. Google Ron Paul. Learn about him. Go to www.LewRockwell.com and look in the lower left corner for writings from the Ron Paul file. Learn about his policies. I dare you.
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” John Quincy Adams
Jennifer Reynolds is a Special Contributor to Gambling911.com
Originally published July 12, 2007 12:43 am ET
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
(text)[/quote]
Lift, you should write to Ron Paul and share your pedestrian advocacy of communism, faith no matter how discredited that is so near and dear to your heart.
“Communism was dependent on firm, consistent, and evil beliefs.”
“Communism, like all socialism, failed intellectually and failed practically.”
-Ron Paul
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
(text)
Lift, you should write to Ron Paul and share your pedestrian advocacy of communism, faith no matter how discredited that is so near and dear to your heart.
“Communism was dependent on firm, consistent, and evil beliefs.”
“Communism, like all socialism, failed intellectually and failed practically.”
-Ron Paul
[/quote]
Let’s be clear…we are talking about a federal government here. I have always agreed with the sentiment that communism cannot work as a State sponsored economic policy.
I disagree that is doesn’t work in general as history is filled with examples of communal enterprises that have worked and do currently work. Maybe the real philosophy (as pointed out by orion) is “Communalism” and not communism–the principles are the same but differ in their “administrative” framework.
Its all about the grassroots.
LibertarianLists.com Survey Finds Ron Paul is Leading Candidate Among Libertarian Voters
A recent Cato Institute analysis indicated that libertarians constitute a significant portion of the swing vote - even larger than the fabled ‘soccer moms’ and ‘NASCAR dads’ and about the same size as Christian Conservatives. A new survey by LibertarianLists.com has taken a look at the libertarian vote with respect to the 2008 presidential elections. Of these voters, Ron Paul is clearly the leading candidate and here’s the data.
Washington, DC (PRWEB) July 14, 2007 – A recent Cato Institute analysis indicated that libertarians constitute a significant portion of the swing vote – even larger than the fabled ‘soccer moms’ and ‘NASCAR dads’ and about the same size as Christian Conservatives. A new survey by LibertarianLists.com has taken a look at the libertarian vote with respect to the 2008 presidential elections.
Of the 1,995 survey respondents, 69.62% percent indicated a preference for Republican Party candidate Ron Paul. Congressman Paul (R-TX) has 92.68% name recognition with the survey participants. 71.33% feel very positively about the candidate and 15.19% feel somewhat positively about him. 2.96% are neutral. 2.01% feel somewhat negatively about Paul and only 1.20% feel very negatively about the candidate.
Paul has the support of 53.98% of the Republicans who participated in the survey, along with 72.24% of Libertarian Party members and 70.59% of independents. He received 27.08% support from the Democrats and Greens responding to the survey.
“Ron Paul is the hottest thing on the Internet for a very good reason: He is connecting with the general public and the typical American voter,” said LibertarianLists founder Stephen Gordon. “If you give the Republican and Democrat machines the chance to win, one of them certainly will. However, if you give common-sense Americans a chance to rise above the political machines, Dr. Paul will clearly dominate.”
The baseline survey results are located at http://www.libertarianlists.com/surveyresult1
Some preliminary cross-tabulation analyses are provided at:
http://www.freeliberal.com/blog/archives/002859.php
http://gordonunleashed.com/blog/2007/07/12/ron-paul-the-big-winner-in-the-libertarian-survey/
The survey was conducted online with e-mail addresses used as the primary controlling mechanism. The survey was conducted between July 2 and July 10, 2008. There were 1,995 survey participants from across the United States. The margin of error is +/-2.19% at a 95% confidence level. The data are taken from online respondents only and have not been weighted.
I wrote a post on another forum to convince some skeptical liberals that Ron Paul has a shot of winning. It’s worth reposting for his neocon bashers on this board.
Ron Paul’s Status in the Polls
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/014005.html
Quote:
Writes Justin Ptak:
"At this point in the cycle, national polls are entirely a reflection of name identification, not voters’ views of the candidates.
"In early 1975, Carter was polling at 1% (he went on to win the Presidency).
"In early 1987, Dukakis was polling at 1% (he went on to win the Democratic nomination).
"In early 1991, Clinton was at 2% (he went on to win the Presidency).
"In the spring of 1999, John McCain was polling at 3% (he went on to win the NH primary).
“In early 2003, Joe Lieberman was leading the field for the Democratic presidential nomination (he failed to win any primary).”
Article with numerous points: Ron Paul and Opinion Polling
There are numerous reasons to believe that this can and will succeed. I have already pointed out several of them.
Forget the polls for a second and use your brain. Take the facts and draw some realistic conclusions:
-McCain was considered a front-runner by the MSM earlier this year. Now he’s dead in the water. Any informed person could have predicted this (I did). Why? 1) McCain is known as a neocon ultra-hawk. That wouldn’t fly in the general election. 2) He took the wrong stand on immigration, the second-most important issue this election.
-Rudy and Romney are big city RINO’s (Republicans in name only). The conservative base does not like them. The neocon base will want to nominate Fred Thompson. The paleocon base will nominate Ron Paul. Rudy/Romney will be dead in the water. It doesn’t matter how much money they raise.
-New Hampshire is more friendly to libertarian candidates than any other state, with the possible exception of Texas. New Hampshire has one of the earliest primaries. NH nominated Pat Buchanan in 1996. He was a paleoconservative non-interventionist Republican who ran on a platform of securing the border. Need I go on?
-Iowa has the first primary in the country in January. But, before that takes place, it be will be preceeded by two major events next month: The next Republican debate and the Straw Poll. If Ron Paul nails both, a win in the first primary is practically secured. Iowa also nominated Buchanan in 1996.
-The Republican party has been steadily overtaken by neocons for several decades. Yet this election, the neocon faction of the party will be at it’s ALL-TIME WEAKEST. Thousands on the right are disenchanted with Bush and his neocon cadre.
There has never been and likely never WILL be a better time for the party to nominate someone like Ron Paul. Expect thousands of independents and libertarians to re-register as Republicans in order to vote for Paul. This is not a prediction, it is already happening.
-Voter turnout in the primaries is far less than in the general election. That means, Ron Paul’s so-called “minority supporters” CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE. And you better believe they are going to try. This is topic#1 on thousands of grassroots bulletin boards across the country. If Ron Paul can win the nomination, he will take the Presidency (barring electoral fraud). He will completely demolish any Democratic opponent.
-Do not underestimate the electability of a quirky, straight-talking physician from Texas. He wouldn’t be the first odd character to occupy the White House…need I go on?
-Last but not least:
Howard Dean started out as an unknown and came very close to winning the Democratic nomination in 04. And how did he do it? Largely through the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_...tial_candidacy
Fortunately, Dr. Paul is the not the screamer type.
You can go to FreeRepublic.com and see these events unfolding exactly as I have predicted them. I’ve been watching this very close, and every prediction I’ve made so far has come to pass. My intent is not to boast, but to inform.
Overflow Crowds Hear Ron Paul Speak at Google Headquarters
[quote]
Ron Paul’s day at Google was a great success, with 250 employees filling the room to hear him and another 100 in an overflow room to watch him on closed-circuit TV.
His reception from Google employees was enthusiastic. Many wore Ron Paul t-shirts, like Vijay Boyapati, an Indian immigrant who gained citizenship last year. Boyapati flew from Google’s Seattle office just to hear him in person.
…[/quote]