Roe v. Wade: 42 Years in the Past

Varqanir · January 23, 2015, 5:05pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I mean if Hitler were aborted how many Jewish family lines would still exist? [/quote]

I hope you understand that Hitler was not the only anti-Semite in Germany in the 1930s.

If Hitler had never been born, someone else would probably have seized power in Germany. Maybe a Communist, who definitely would have sided with Stalin. Can you imagine a Germany led by someone just as powerful, nationalistic and racist as Hitler, but backed by the Soviet Union?

The blitzkrieg would have been in a single direction: west. And it would have been unstoppable.

And no, the United States would not have jumped in to save the day. Remember, we were Stalin’s ally, too. And a Communist Germany would not be allied with fascist Japan, so Pearl Harbor would not have prompted our entry into a war in Europe… Doubtful it would have happened at all. A Russian-German juggernaut would have swallowed Europe by 1941, perhaps even England, but certainly Holland and France. Meaning that Japan would have attacked Indonesia and Indochina (formerly Dutch and French colonies, but now the property of the Supreme Soviet State of Europe) at their peril. More likely, they would have allied with the United States (their old ally from the First World War) to protect them from their sworn enemy, the Russians.

No Hitler means no mass escape of German Jews, meaning no Oppenheimer and Einstein, no Szilard and Bohr and Fermi and Rotblat and Teller. All of them would have stayed in their native lands, and Soviet Europe would have first the atomic bomb, then the hydrogen bomb.

Eventually our alliance with Japan would draw us into a conflict with Soviet Europe, which would employ their nuclear arsenal against us. Being late to the nuclear game, we would not prevail.

THIS is what you want?

And you call yourself an American?!

streamline · January 23, 2015, 5:23pm

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:
I believe no one was the right to tell others how to live. [/quote]

lmao… Because killing someone sure isn’t “telling them how to live” or anything.

That is the worst pro-choice argument on the planet, lmao, and all you guys trot it out as a blatant display that you don’t fucking think, like ever, just to troll us, don’t you?[/quote]

You do understand the term, Freedom. That would be my right to tell you I do not care what you think. You talk about killing but you fail to mention that an anti abortionist like Bush who has no problem killing thousands of people including his own. Over weapons of mass destruction that never existed! So killing is okay once they are out of the womb. Just a bunch of Hippocrates!

DoubleDuce · January 23, 2015, 5:27pm

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

I hope you understand that Hitler was not the only anti-Semite in Germany in the 1930s.

[/quote]

I’m currently reading a book about Bonhoeffer which details the development of Nazism from the perspective of the Lutheran Church. Many leaders in the church went above and beyond capitulation with the Nazis.

countingbeans · January 23, 2015, 6:14pm

[quote]streamline wrote:

You do understand the term, Freedom. [/quote]

Which is denied every aborted person.

Strong rebuttal. I’m just taken away by this brilliant refutation of the logic I presented to you.

I guess it seems you’ve considered the fact your original sentence is such an utter contradiction of itself you can’t even defend it, so you don’t bother to try then?

I would imagine I “failed to mention it” due to this being about abortion and not the Iraq war, of which, I’m the least likely to be supportive.

So, your inability to justify your self contradiction is absolved because you can point to other hypocrites? If that helps you sleep at night fine, but that doesn’t make your own views consistent or sound.

anon50325502 · January 23, 2015, 6:36pm

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I mean if Hitler were aborted how many Jewish family lines would still exist? [/quote]

I hope you understand that Hitler was not the only anti-Semite in Germany in the 1930s.

If Hitler had never been born, someone else would probably have seized power in Germany. Maybe a Communist, who definitely would have sided with Stalin. Can you imagine a Germany led by someone just as powerful, nationalistic and racist as Hitler, but backed by the Soviet Union?

The blitzkrieg would have been in a single direction: west. And it would have been unstoppable.

And no, the United States would not have jumped in to save the day. Remember, we were Stalin’s ally, too. And a Communist Germany would not be allied with fascist Japan, so Pearl Harbor would not have prompted our entry into a war in Europe… Doubtful it would have happened at all. A Russian-German juggernaut would have swallowed Europe by 1941, perhaps even England, but certainly Holland and France. Meaning that Japan would have attacked Indonesia and Indochina (formerly Dutch and French colonies, but now the property of the Supreme Soviet State of Europe) at their peril. More likely, they would have allied with the United States (their old ally from the First World War) to protect them from their sworn enemy, the Russians.

No Hitler means no mass escape of German Jews, meaning no Oppenheimer and Einstein, no Szilard and Bohr and Fermi and Rotblat and Teller. All of them would have stayed in their native lands, and Soviet Europe would have first the atomic bomb, then the hydrogen bomb.

Eventually our alliance with Japan would draw us into a conflict with Soviet Europe, which would employ their nuclear arsenal against us. Being late to the nuclear game, we would not prevail.

THIS is what you want?

And you call yourself an American?!
[/quote]

That damn butterfly affect gets me every time…

anon50325502 · January 23, 2015, 6:35pm

[quote]streamline wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:
I believe no one was the right to tell others how to live. [/quote]

lmao… Because killing someone sure isn’t “telling them how to live” or anything.

That is the worst pro-choice argument on the planet, lmao, and all you guys trot it out as a blatant display that you don’t fucking think, like ever, just to troll us, don’t you?[/quote]

You do understand the term, Freedom. That would be my right to tell you I do not care what you think. You talk about killing but you fail to mention that an anti abortionist like Bush who has no problem killing thousands of people including his own. Over weapons of mass destruction that never existed! So killing is okay once they are out of the womb. Just a bunch of Hippocrates![/quote]

What the does war have to do with abortion?

It sure would be nice if these discussion could stay on topic not get misdirected all over God’s green earth.

countingbeans · January 23, 2015, 6:39pm

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

It sure would be nice if these discussion could stay on topic not get misdirected all over God’s green earth. [/quote]

He can’t not change the subject. His position is indefensible.

Aragorn · January 23, 2015, 11:12pm

[quote]streamline wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:
I believe no one was the right to tell others how to live. [/quote]

lmao… Because killing someone sure isn’t “telling them how to live” or anything.

That is the worst pro-choice argument on the planet, lmao, and all you guys trot it out as a blatant display that you don’t fucking think, like ever, just to troll us, don’t you?[/quote]

You do understand the term, Freedom. That would be my right to tell you I do not care what you think. You talk about killing but you fail to mention that an anti abortionist like Bush who has no problem killing thousands of people including his own. Over weapons of mass destruction that never existed! So killing is okay once they are out of the womb. Just a bunch of Hippocrates![/quote]

Give me a fucking break man. Grow up and do some motherfucking reasoning. 1) The war in Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic you were criticized on. Your attempt to bring it in is a gigantic fucking red herring. 2) Even if it DID have anything to do with the topic at hand, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EQUIVALENCE between geo-politics, which is largely anarchic and amoral; war, which again may be argued for or against but is argued around a premise that these people hold our ill will in mind…or actively wish us harm; and abortion.

The other GLARING problem with your post, besides the fact that you’re worse than the dog in “UP” at staying on topic, is that the issue isn’t “killing”. It is “murder”. There is are big, fundamental differences between the two and it “murder” is intentionally used in this debate to denote the differences.

If I were pro-choice I would be embarrassed to have you argue my position.

Oh, and the word you are looking for is “hypocrites”, not Hippocrates. Hippocrates was a classical greek physician, considered the founder of western medicine, and the Hippocratic Oath is an oath that has nothing to do with “saying one thing and doing another thing”.

streamline · January 24, 2015, 3:36am

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:
I believe no one was the right to tell others how to live. [/quote]

lmao… Because killing someone sure isn’t “telling them how to live” or anything.

That is the worst pro-choice argument on the planet, lmao, and all you guys trot it out as a blatant display that you don’t fucking think, like ever, just to troll us, don’t you?[/quote]

You do understand the term, Freedom. That would be my right to tell you I do not care what you think. You talk about killing but you fail to mention that an anti abortionist like Bush who has no problem killing thousands of people including his own. Over weapons of mass destruction that never existed! So killing is okay once they are out of the womb. Just a bunch of Hippocrates![/quote]

Give me a fucking break man. Grow up and do some motherfucking reasoning. 1) The war in Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic you were criticized on. Your attempt to bring it in is a gigantic fucking red herring. 2) Even if it DID have anything to do with the topic at hand, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EQUIVALENCE between geo-politics, which is largely anarchic and amoral; war, which again may be argued for or against but is argued around a premise that these people hold our ill will in mind…or actively wish us harm; and abortion.

The other GLARING problem with your post, besides the fact that you’re worse than the dog in “UP” at staying on topic, is that the issue isn’t “killing”. It is “murder”. There is are big, fundamental differences between the two and it “murder” is intentionally used in this debate to denote the differences.

If I were pro-choice I would be embarrassed to have you argue my position.

Oh, and the word you are looking for is “hypocrites”, not Hippocrates. Hippocrates was a classical greek physician, considered the founder of western medicine, and the Hippocratic Oath is an oath that has nothing to do with “saying one thing and doing another thing”.[/quote]

First I am pro choice because I believe in every persons right to govern their own life choices. That ends it for me because I do not ever have to make that choice.

Sorry for the miss understanding but war to me means collateral damage. That is murder, if you think it is not ask those who have lost the ones they love. To me it is all the same. It does not change my mind on an individuals right to govern their own life. We should be free to decide.

It is after all they who must face the consequence of any choice they make. Since I do not plan on sharing any consequence with them. I do not see why it is any of my business. If they are religious then they will have to come to terms with that, not me. If people make choices that haunt them later in life it is not my concern.

The right to choose for yourself has a price. It is called responsibility and other people are not my responsibility. I live with my demons so can everyone else. I will always stand up for the right to choose. It is fundamental and can not be given or taken away it is a birth right. I do not believe in guns but I will defend everyones right to own one. I would never abort a child if it was my choice but I will defend anyones right to make that choice.

Freedom means one has no excuses, choose wisely.

streamline · January 24, 2015, 4:12am

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]streamline wrote:

It is after all they who must face the consequence of any choice they make.

[/quote]

No, not really. It’s the dying child that’s doing the consequence facing.
[/quote]

Again, not my problem. As harsh as it is, it is the cost of freedom. Some may not like that, but it is better than the government making all your life choices. Kind of sounds like communism.

Aragorn · January 24, 2015, 4:55am