Aw yeah, getting the old crew back together now! @littlesleeper and @simo74, thanks so much for your support and following along for another thread!
Thank you very much my friend, been a hell of a journey these past few years! How are you and the fam doing?
Absolutely, hell of a great name IMO!
You have made some big life leaps these past few years, and it has always been fun to tag along and root for you.
Things are well with us. Our little guy is keeping us busy and sleep deprived! We are all moved into our house that we built, just some finishing touches (basement painting, garage storage/organizing, landscaping and some rearranging in the basement).
I started a new job for a new company back in April which is in a supervisory position, and I love it. VERY busy and chaotic, but the days just fly by.
Training has been averaging twice a week for a long while now, but strength and size seem to be holding on pretty well overall. Basement gym is set up now which is nice to have again. Overall, no complaints on my end!
When you run fats so low, how do you ensure that you are getting them all/day?
For instance, hereās a mistake I used to make (easy to not do the same mistake):
When I slow-cooked meats, even lean meats, I wouldnāt bother myself to portion the ābrothā with the weighed amounts of meat thus losing out on fat. Easy fix, portion it out.
Less easy: stir-frying mince meat for instance. Some fat always stays in the pan even if one takes enough care to fry say 6oz at a time rather than larger batches.
Reading this, I see the solutions. But, since Iāve made this mistake in the past Iāll post it in case some young rook sees it and can pre-emptively avoid repeating my mistakes.
When I pan fry any ground beef, I drain it in a colander and run water over it, which stops the cooking and washes all the extra fat off. Then Iāll cook the veggies and re-add the cooked beef at the end.
I drain it, cool it and then spread it on my toast. 
Great question! Iāve got my plan posted on the fridge and follow all recipes exactly. Out of my 4 meals per day, two of them require the use of cooking oil, which is primarily used for veggies.
I asked Cliff this same question when we started, how to factor in those fats. My primary animal proteins are egg whites in the morning, and dinner is either boneless, skinless chicken thighs, or sirloin, which comes pre-cooked from a sous-vide (Costco!) and is phenomenal. When I cook chicken thighs I always do it in bulk. Lay them out on a glass pan with about half inch of water, season them, cover the glass pan with tin foil to keep them juicy and then throw them in the oven.
For the veggies, I sautĆ© them in the pan using cold pressed olive oil. Cliff recommended we factor in half of the total calories from the oil that will actually get into the food, so thatās how weāre doing it. I also factor in 2g of fat from the fish oils I take daily.
Current meal plan on a normal training day I structured for myself using Cliffās assigned macros:
Coffee note - I usually have 2 cups, one first thing and another late morning, the 4oz of unsweetened almond milk I measure in the morning and use that for coffee throughout the day.
Hey Rob, howās it going?
@caesium32, thanks for asking!
All going well. Itās been an insanely busy couple of weeks in the real estate world for us so not much time to post, finally when the evening rolls around Iām ready to just relax and zone out for a bit. In my āfree timeā during the day when Iām not actively working or training, reading back and forth between a few books is my go-to. Entrepreneurial mindset, success in business, sales, etc., all that good stuff. Most recently I finished āThree Feet From Gold,ā absolutely fantastic read if youāve already read āThink and Grow Rich.ā
Training and nutrition this week has been good, weighing in tomorrow morning. Not weighing myself every day is a huge shift in protocol and mindset, eventually we may get there but for now itās just once a week when I check in every Monday morning. I am definitely making visible progress and getting leaner, and strength has been going up on this program. I just finished āPhase 1ā of the three phase plan. To summarize, Phase 1 contained 6 workouts, and Phase 1 is complete when Iāve done each workout 4 times. The workouts did not fall on the same day each week. I trained Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Each muscle group would get hit twice a week, once with progressive overload and once with blood volume training. I finished that Friday, and took TWO FULL days off the gym this weekend, which has been very nice to just relax and give my body a break and enjoy a regular nutrition day, and re-feed day today.
Tomorrow starts Phase 2, there are 5 workouts in this phase, so theyāll fall on the same day each week. Again Iāll be training Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. This Phase there is no blood volume training, but the overall training volume has gone up. There will be a wide variety of rep ranges, anywhere from 30 down to 6.
Right now I only have one 15min LISS cardio session per week, weāll see if there will be any adjustments made tomorrow after I send my weight and pics to Cliff.
So Iām about to start week 6 of contest prep. Iām glad we got a very early start, weāre still about 6 months out. Taking a very slow and steady approach, Iāve lost a little over 5 pounds since we started and itās felt very easy physically and mentally. Based on my last contest in 2017, Iām guessing thereās about 25 more pounds to lose. This will be my 5th show and third year competing, so getting back into contest prep mode feels more like ābusiness as usual.ā The most significant aspect that affected my day-to-day is food prepping and bringing my cooler as needed. I work from home so usually thatās not an issue, some busier days I have to bring the cooler with me, and Iāve had a handful of occasions, like birthday parties, family events, etc., where Iāve brought food. My family and friends are super supportive and know Iām committed to the process, which also helps a lot.
Itās been great starting this slower approach at the beginning of the prep, one of the most challenging aspects has actually been that it doesnāt feel very challenging (yet.) Iāve had tendencies in the past to just go go go, and make more drastic changes when I donāt see the results I want. I think some of that may have been to my detriment after learning more about Cliffās methods.
After working with Cliff for a little bit now and reading through his textbook, here are some things I think that kept me from getting down to super shredded, lines-in-my-glutes conditioning.
-Making too many changes too fast. I always had long preps, at least 24 weeks, but I went too hard at the beginning.
-Shooting for too significant rate of loss and too quick to make significant changes when I didnāt see it.
-Keeping HIIT incorporated (Cliff is not a fan of HIIT for bodybuilders in a prep, LISS and MISS only)
-Too much fasted cardio which probably led to some muscle loss. I usually did cardio after weights, and once I needed more than 30 minutes daily I would incorporate a separate fasted cardio session, by the last 4-5 weeks of prep sessions would be 45-60 minutes fasted cardio (no more fasted cardio!)
-Not maximizing recovery as contest got closer. Thereās a section in Cliffās book, and in his instructions with his training programs, about recovery, knowing when to possibly incorporate a de-load, or even take an extra day or two off of the gym, I never did that. All the signs were there, I just pushed through and had the mind set of āstick to the plan no matter what.ā Eventually I got down to my low days being 1550 calories with a HIIT session, or long fasted cardio in the AM with gym and post weights cardio in the PM. I think after those experiences, I will have a much better handle on listening to my body, and will be able to better differentiate between the standard suffering that goes along with a prep, and knowing when to ask about potentially incorporating some extra recovery if needed.
Will post some pics and more updates this week!
Weighed in this morning at 160.5, last weekās Monday weight was 162. So still making progress on my current numbers, waiting on Cliffās feedback but I expect we will not be making any changes this week as Iām still losing on the current numbers. Excited for that as right now everything feels very sustainable in terms of daily calories, two re-feeds per week and only one cardio session. Also excited to start the new training program today!
The fasted cardio note is interesting, would that also include a fasted walk in the morning? Or are we talking about a slightly higher modality of intensity?
@Voxel good question, and keep in mind that the āno fasted cardioā plan is just while in a caloric deficit on a prep where the goal is to keep muscle and lose only fat. A brief passive, relaxed morning walk would probably fine in the earlier stages, like if Iām walking the dog or taking a stroll around the block, although at a certain point in the prep when showtime is getting closer, cardio is high, cals are low and the day-to-day suffering is in play, I wouldnāt do it.
That makes sense. Iāll highlight that my curiosity does not stem from contest prep, but rather your run-of-the-mill leaning out.
For me, a reduced meal frequency makes it easier to adhere to a deficit. Iām not a very hungry person upon waking, and am also quite energetic, so itās trivial for me to get some steps in fasted. But after my first meal then hunger becomes a repeat visitor.
Therefore, when Iām looking to get a little less soft Iāll try to analyze how I see the rest of the day playing out. If it looks to be inactive, I could go for a brisk 45-60 minute walk and tally some 7k steps before my first meal or if I expect to be more active during the day (run errands and the like) Iāll resign to merely walking to work (~2-3k steps).
Since this allows me to delay when I have to manage my hunger I find diet adherence easier. Furthermore, with small meals Iāve on occassion found myself justifying adding minor items in here and there but with big meals I do not succumb to such inclinations. Three meals seem to be my sweet-spot. Lunch, preworkout, and dinner but this will almost inevitably then expose myself to some fasted movement.
Iām not well-read up on the subject, but if itās essentially impossible to gain muscle at an appreciable rate without fat gain I expect that perceivable fat loss will inevitably be accompanied by some muscle loss. Granted, any devilās advocate would highlight that intuitively if we compare
Breakfast
Lunch
Pre-workout
Intra-workout
Dinner
to
Lunch
Pre-workout
Dinner
the former is much more likely to be muscle-sparing. But, then again the efficacy of the fat loss effort will be determined by whether or not a deficit is sustained and thatās how I justify that since it is more convenient to do on the latter rather than the former (for me) it might be the better option until one is quite lean.
Itās my understanding that muscle loss and levels of bodyfat have some relation. I.e., the fatter you are the less muscle you are likely to lose. Might be misinformed.
This is super detailed and extremely well thought out! Itās so important to know what works for you and structure a plan that you enjoy and that you can execute consistently, sounds like youāve got that part figured out. I too am not very hungry in the morning, and get hungrier after my first meal, so can totally relate. Going for a 45-60min walk prior to eating meal 1 shouldnāt really have any negative repercussions in that instance, if you wanted to play it safe you could always gulp some BCAAās or EAAās before.
100% spot on, it comes down to the total numbers at the end of the day, so whether that is 5 meals or 3 meals, total macros and cals will be the ultimate determining factor. It may be beneficial to throw in a whey protein drink somewhere for a little extra āmuscle insurance.ā
Now this is an interesting subject, and I think it is totally possible to gain muscle with minimum fat gain, however it is a very slow and steady process, more-so than people realize and definitely slower than most people are willing to go. Just like with a proper diet on a bodybuilding prep, the goal is to keep muscle and lose only fat. So, going real slow and steady with the deficit, starting with minimal cardio, taking your time, continuing to lift heavy and with high enough volume in the gym, and getting enough protein, will ensure maximal fat loss with very minimal muscle loss. The harder you go on a cut, the more likely it is you will lose some muscle. Similarly with gaining muscle, it takes a very slight surplus to do it, and takes a long time, especially for a natural athlete.
Following.
YES! @The_Myth is here! If I could like this post 5 times I would. Glad to have you on board my friend!!!
Thanks brother.
Iām glad to see you back. I still lurk, just donāt post much.
I was thinking this was a rare occasion to see you post. Good to know you are still lurking out there in the shadows!!
Like Batman
Or Louis Ferrigno in pumping iron. Waiting for youā¦in the shadows.
Week 7 is underway, still moving along well. Didnāt have much scale loss this week, made a couple small nutritional tweaks to keep this moving.
New Regular Day Macros 160c, 220p, 53f
New Re-Feed Day Macros 305c, 190p, 51f
Still just one 15min LISS session per week which I do on Tuesdays.
This is week 2 of the training program Cliff gave me, seriously intense volume. Monday is legs and this week and last week took about 2 hours to get through. Iām taking long rest periods to make sure I stay strong throughout so that certainly plays a role in the length. Yesterdayās workout was:
Machine Leg Press - 4x30
Leg Ext- 4x 30, 20, 15, 8
Lying Leg Curls- 4x30,20,15,8
Squat- 4x6
DB Walking Lunges- 3x 15 steps each leg
Hip Adduction Machine- 4x10-12
Hip Abduction Machine- 4x10-12
Barbell Hip Thrust- 4x30
Seated Calf Raises- 3x30
Calf Raises on Leg Press- 3x30
All sets are taken to 1-4 reps short of failure, but never going to failure during this phase of the program.
Doing high rep work in the beginning of a session is new for me, usually when I do higher rep stuff itās towards the second half of the workout, and itās 12-15 reps, maybe 20 once in a blue moon, never 30. Serious pump and really gets the muscles fired up quickly. Compared to last weekās leg workout, yesterdayās felt better, numbers were up and didnāt feel quite as wrecked after the session. The first week of a new program is always a little rough just to get used to the new exercises, sequence, starting weight, etc. I keep a clipboard with me to track everything so once I get to the second week of a program, things move more quickly.
Here are some pics from yesterdayās check in. Another aspect of this prep Iām enjoying is not shaving yet. Shaving is truthfully one of the most inconvenient aspects of prepping for a hairy guy like myself. At this stage of the game weāre still not close to the show, so weāre focusing on scale loss right now, and Iāll start shaving probably after the new year.
Weight in these pics is 160.5, height 5ā4"
