RNC Finance:'Absolutely Shameful'

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
42

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]stokedporcupine8 wrote:
…That is why I don’t poke my head in anymore, this place is just a bunch of people patting themselves on the back anymore.[/quote]

Oh, around here we need our fair share of folks who are so incredibly intelligent and aloof that they condescendingly abstain from the fray. Thanks for help filling the void.[/quote]

You forgot about the part where you first admit I was correct for criticizing Rockscar and accurate in my description of the “fray” around here. The joke telling is suppose to wait until the end.

Besides, I’d rather be so incredibly intelligent and aloof that I condescendingly abstained from the fray than only so incredibly intelligent and aloof that I condescendingly jeered others into the fray.

43

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ramrod63 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ramrod63 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
By the way, having an iron fist is THE only way a socialist state can survive - even for a short period of time.[/quote]

wtf…man you watch waaayyyy too much fox news…
you know theres different degrees oh socialist states like democratic socialism like sweden
like a country doesnt need to be 100% socialist, you dont need a country ruled by an iron fist to have free health care and education which is mind boggling that the most powerful country in the world doesnt have these 2 basic things…

i really dont get why americans hate socialism so much…[/quote]

Change yer fuckin avatar if you expect me to concentrate on serious subjects. (Messin’ with you)

Buddy, I was decades older than you before Fox News raced through Murdoch’s cranium.

While Sweden may not fit the mold of an iron fisted state, it’s people are slaves. Wanna know why?[/quote]

Please enlighten me.[/quote]

It has something to do with tax rates. When a country takes a majority of a person’s income (wealth) the person ends up being a defacto slave to the state.[/quote]

Okay wow wtf…im speachless. Slave? Really? Real strong word to be using. Major exaggeration.
You get what you pay for (assuming your government isn’t incompetent which is probably the big issue in all of this). I don’t have to worry about one day being stuck with thousands in medical bills, I can graduate debt free and I will have very good work benefits. It sucks that I’m one day going to pay probably more than 60% of my salary in taxes (50% marginal tax rate + i live in Quebec so we’re taxed on everything) but at least i know i live in a place where i can have a good life even if certain life changing events happen.

I realize though that if I’m making good money which I will I’m much better off living in the states where taxes are much lower but for the general population, I find that people are much better off in a more socialist society (I would say Quebec but the government here is incompetent so lets say Europe).

Wouldn’t you rather sacrifice a part of your wealth so that society can function better as a whole? (like i said assuming a competent government).

45

[quote]ckallander wrote:
I see capitalism as the next to fall.
[/quote]

Capitalism, if defined as system of a market economy (that is, a true free market), was abandoned many decades ago in favor of a bizarre mixture of a neomercantilist and quasi-socialist economic structure. These two have increasingly supplanted what was once largely a free market over several decades; essentially over a century.

To define the economic system that the United States currently operates under as a free market is to seriously misunderstand the actual implementation and structure of it.

The above is quite a puzzling statement, for it is the exact opposite–that is, that there exists scarcity within the world–that free market economists promote s a basis for a free market system. This point has further implications, particularly that of the price system.

The price system itself recognizes the existence of scarcity. This is accomplished by the free movement of prices as they adjust to the regulatory effects of supply and demand of goods and services within the economy.

Pure socialism, that is, Communism, assumes–intentionally or otherwise–that goods and services are infinite since it believes that the price system is a completely unnecessary tool for the proper distribution of goods and services. Lenin attempted to implement such an idea during the first two years of his installation of the Communist system in Russia (1917-1920).

After mass starvation ensued do to the abolition of the price system, aggravated by other internal factors, and its replacement with a bureaucratic management system in relation to the distribution of goods and services Lenin finally introduced a form of price system. However, it was obviously seriously hindered by the socialist structure itself.

To have a price system for the regulation of the supply and demand of goods and services within a given society/market is to acknowledge the existential reality of the idea of scarcity. Say, for example, when a products price quadruples this is a clear signal to the market that supply is being severely outstripped by demand. This can take the form of a lack of supply itself–demand remaining the same–or a massive increase in demand relative to existing supply.

For those interested, an excellent lecture on the subject of scarcity within the free market system please read the following article:

What Scarcity Implies [by: D.W. MacKenzie]

46

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ramrod63 wrote:

Okay wow wtf…im speachless. Slave? Really? Real strong word to be using. Major exaggeration.
You get what you pay for (assuming your government isn’t incompetent which is probably the big issue in all of this). I don’t have to worry about one day being stuck with thousands in medical bills, I can graduate debt free and I will have very good work benefits.

It sucks that I’m one day going to pay probably more than 60% of my salary in taxes (50% marginal tax rate + i live in Quebec so we’re taxed on everything) but at least i know i live in a place where i can have a good life even if certain life changing events happen.

I realize though that if I’m making good money which I will I’m much better off living in the states where taxes are much lower but for the general population, I find that people are much better off in a more socialist society (I would say Quebec but the government here is incompetent so lets say Europe).

Wouldn’t you rather sacrifice a part of your wealth so that society can function better as a whole? (like i said assuming a competent government).
[/quote]

Fuck it, you win. Your link to serfdom and knee pads convinced me I’m wrong.

48

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Look, if ye aint got freedom’s fire burnin’ in ye belly that be fine by me. Quebec is the place for ye if ye want to live in North America. There are places in Europe that would accommodate ye nicely too.

My great grandpappies and grandmas left Europe precisely because they didn’t want what ye do.

I bid thee adieu, esclave par votre propre choix.[/quote]
Wtf does freedom have to do with this? You can live in a country other than the US and be free but I guess you didn’t know this. Capitalism does exist outside of the US or is this news to you too? Oh and guess what, my parents moved here too because of freedom to escape Soviet rule but I guess they failed since they came to Canada instead of the US.

49

[quote]ramrod63 wrote:

Wouldn’t you rather sacrifice a part of your wealth so that society can function better as a whole? (like i said assuming a competent government).
[/quote]

I would, but I have no say in the matter, they just come and take it.

But, pray tell, what is the disgusting idea behind slavery and servitude? Is it the idea that some people are legally entitled to the fruits of another mans labor and do have the right to take it at gunpoint?

If so, how is an income tax to finance a welfare state not servitude?

50

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ckallander wrote:
I see capitalism as the next to fall.
[/quote]

Capitalism, if defined as system of a market economy (that is, a true free market), was abandoned many decades ago in favor of a bizarre mixture of a neomercantilist and quasi-socialist economic structure.

These two have increasingly supplanted what was once largely a free market over several decades; essentially over a century. To define the economic system that the United States currently operates under as a free market is to seriously misunderstand the actual implementation and structure of it.

The above is quite a puzzling statement, for it is the exact opposite–that is, that there exists scarcity within the world–that free market economists promote s a basis for a free market system. This point has further implications, particularly that of the price system.

The price system itself recognizes the existence of scarcity. This is accomplished by the free movement of prices as they adjust to the regulatory effects of supply and demand of goods and services within the economy.

Pure socialism, that is, Communism, assumes–intentionally or otherwise–that goods and services are infinite since it believes that the price system is a completely unnecessary tool for the proper distribution of goods and services. Lenin attempted to implement such an idea during the first two years of his installation of the Communist system in Russia (1917-1920).

After mass starvation ensued do to the abolition of the price system, aggravated by other internal factors, and its replacement with a bureaucratic management system in relation to the distribution of goods and services Lenin finally introduced a form of price system. However, it was obviously seriously hindered by the socialist structure itself.

To have a price system for the regulation of the supply and demand of goods and services within a given society/market is to acknowledge the existential reality of the idea of scarcity.

Say, for example, when a products price quadruples this is a clear signal to the market that supply is being severely outstripped by demand. This can take the form of a lack of supply itself–demand remaining the same–or a massive increase in demand relative to existing supply.

For those interested, an excellent lecture on the subject of scarcity within the free market system please read the following article:

What Scarcity Implies [by: D.W. MacKenzie]

He only understand keynesian economics, hence why he thinks that we first have capitalism and second capitalism is going to fail(when infact I believe that we are in a couple of years about to see a capitalist revolution so to speak).

You are asking a keynesian to understand austrian economics, unless he is willing to completely forget everything he has learned about economics and start from the basis I doubt he will understand what we are trying to say…

51

[quote]ckallander wrote:

And yes, many political systems have failed around the world. I see capitalism as the next to fall. Free market assumes everything is infinite. [/quote]

If I understand that correctly, markets assume that resources are infinite even though they have a price system that deals with the scarcity of goods.

And your solution would be things like “free” education and healthcare for all?

Do you see any problem with that or does that somehow work for you?

52

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ckallander wrote:

And yes, many political systems have failed around the world. I see capitalism as the next to fall. Free market assumes everything is infinite. [/quote]

If I understand that correctly, markets assume that resources are infinite even though they have a price system that deals with the scarcity of goods.

And your solution would be things like “free” education and healthcare for all?

Do you see any problem with that or does that somehow work for you?

[/quote]

We can’t think things through we must only use emotions!

53

[quote]ramrod63 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Look, if ye aint got freedom’s fire burnin’ in ye belly that be fine by me. Quebec is the place for ye if ye want to live in North America. There are places in Europe that would accommodate ye nicely too.

My great grandpappies and grandmas left Europe precisely because they didn’t want what ye do.

I bid thee adieu, esclave par votre propre choix.[/quote]
Wtf does freedom have to do with this? You can live in a country other than the US and be free but I guess you didn’t know this. Capitalism does exist outside of the US or is this news to you too? Oh and guess what, my parents move here too because of freedom to escape Soviet rule but I guess they failed since they came to Canada instead of the US.[/quote]

Oh sure, there are a lot of countries where you have the right to free speech, can fuck whoever you want and soon you will even be able to light up a joint.

However, you will send your child to a government school, whether you want to or not, you will go to a doctor paid by the state, whether you want to or not, you will be part of SS systems that are failing, whether you want to or not.

In other words you will do as they say in all the important matters but you are free to spend your pocket money any way you want to.

If you call that freedom, well then you are free.

As free as any other beast of burden.

54

[quote]John S. wrote:
He only understand Keynesian economics, hence why he thinks that we first have capitalism and second capitalism is going to fail(when in fact I believe that we are in a couple of years about to see a capitalist revolution so to speak).

You are asking a Keynesian to understand Austrian economics, unless he is willing to completely forget everything he has learned about economics and start from the basis I doubt he will understand what we are trying to say…[/quote]

It is interesting to note that John Maynard Keynes admired the Nazi economic system. Furthermore, in knowing this it is important to understand that Keynes’ ideas were fundamentally geared toward economic central planning. Obviously, such a s system can hardly be described as a free market. In fact, in the forward to the German translation of Keynes book “The General Theory” we find the following passage:

“[T]he theory of output as a whole, which is what the following book purports to provide, is much more easily adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state, than is the theory of production and distribution of a given output produced under the conditions of free competition and a large measure of laissez-faire.” [The Economics of Hitler - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com]

Keynesian economic theory thus rejects laissez-faire, that is a free market, in favor of central planning by a large government apparatus. It is quite false for individuals to conflate such big government management with free market principles.

In closing, the idea that a free market ignores the reality of the scarcity of goods and services completely contradicts decades, even centuries, of what free market economists have taught. To suggest otherwise is to be quite frankly completely ignorant of the mountain of scholarly work on the subject.

55

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

It is interesting to note that John Maynard Keynes admired the Nazi economic system. Furthermore, in knowing this it is important to understand that Keynes’ ideas were fundamentally geared toward economic central planning.

Obviously, such a s system can hardly be described as a free market. In fact, in the forward to the German translation of Keynes book “The General Theory” we find the following passage:

“[T]he theory of output as a whole, which is what the following book purports to provide, is much more easily adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state, than is the theory of production and distribution of a given output produced under the conditions of free competition and a large measure of laissez-faire.” [The Economics of Hitler - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com]

Keynesian economic theory thus rejects laissez-faire, that is a free market, in favor of central planning by a large government apparatus. It is quite false for individuals to conflate such big government management with free market principles.

In closing, the idea that a free market ignores the reality of the scarcity of goods and services completely contradicts decades, even centuries, of what free market economists have taught. To suggest otherwise is to be quite frankly completely ignorant of the mountain of scholarly work on the subject.[/quote]

Have you seen the schools today? I know more about economics then the teachers.

56

This whole thread made me lol while I ate lunch…