Neither of the Instagram posts discuss the shoulder. The article is about stiffness, and I agree that stiffness is subjective and not indicative of anything in particular.
I’m not seeing the articles… And how does impingement not exist? If I elevate my scapula during a serratus punch (scapular protraction exercise at PT), I literally pinch tissue in my shoulder between the head of my humerus and glenoid cavity. It cause pain. If I keep my scapula depressed (the correct way) then there is no pain or restricted movement.
impingement
[imˈpinjmənt]
NOUN
1. intrusion into an area belonging to or affecting someone or something else.
“the creeping impingement of the digital world into our lives”
*medicine
a painful condition caused by rubbing or pressure on a tendon, nerve, etc., by adjacent structures.
I give up.
They had limitations and pain. That’s why they had surgery. The trauma and damage the doctor pointed out was discovered during surgery.
I have no idea what you angle is on this… As a trainer, do you tell your people to use crap form because there’s no proof that it will lead to injury? Do you ignore them when they shrug their shoulders to start a rowing movement or chest press? Do you let them lock their knees and round their back on deadlifts?
Google “barbell medicine shoulder” and they are the first ones to appear.
As a medical diagnosis it is poor as there are better, more accurate ways to diagnose. And as a syndrome it’s nonexistant. Sure your soft tissues may be squished for a bit but prolonged? It’s something else
Fair point. Doesn’t mean the structural damage caused the pain
No, that makes no sense. I teach people to move in a technically efficient way that allows for a good amount of loading while maintaining a reasonably consistent technique from session to session and accomplishes whatever it is I’m programming the exercise for.
The difference is that I do not shit my pants if my client’s technique isn’t exactly textbook or if their form breaks down slightly during a set.
And for the record, none of my clients have ever had an injury.
Agreed. I don’t think it’s an ongoing issue. I think it’s an acute movement like my example. I can cause it, and I can move again and the symptoms go away.
I can understand the impingement syndrome diagnosis a little bit. During my surgery, my doctor found that the subacromial bursa was larger than it should be. I guess it had an appearance that indicated it has grown. I imagine something like that could lead to some sort of impingement, but it’s probably more rare and a completely different issue than what is commonly referred to as impingement.
I think there are a few terms thrown around for many different shoulder issues. I don’t know how a doctor can diagnose most things in the shoulder without imaging.
Exactly! I wasn’t taking the stance of a form nazi. There was just some concern about too much pressing compared to pulling. I actually think push ups could keep shoulders healthy if done properly (in terms of the whole balance thing).
For most of us, if we experience pain then we also experience some sort of dysfunction. It could be actual dysfunction or it could be selective (I don’t want to do this because it hurts). For those of us who are halfway educated on the body, the first step is to figure out what’s wrong. For shoulder pain, I’d Google my symptoms and see what’s common. From there, I’d do the tests and see if I could identify a problem.
I think it’s a rational approach to do movement assessments and that would include all movements involving the scapula. I don’t think everything has to be perfect, but you could possibly spot some major discrepancies that give you a starting point to find relief.
The big picture with rotator cuff, scapula, and all that fun stuff is synergy. As long as everything is working together then the right stuff usually happens.
Not gonna lie, it did seem a bit heated for a while, but seems like we are not too far from agreement here. I feel like the big problem with forums is that misunderstandings are common and the slow pace of conversation may cause some detail to be left out.
Your point of view may be a bit more mechanical compared to mine, but really what matters is performance and staying healthy.
I’m reading through part 4 of the article series. One thing of which I’m certain - I’m glad my rotator cuff is healthy so I don’t have to worry about anything in that debate. It kind of sounds like you’re just screwed if you tear one of those little muscles. Things can improve but there’s always a chance of pissing it off again.
The CSAW (Can Shoulder Arthroscopy Work?) study aimed to compare 1) subacromial decompression versus 2) sham (“placebo” arthroscopy) versus 3) no treatment. A total of 313 patients were recruited and randomly assigned as follows: 106 to decompression surgery (removal of tissue/bone), 103 to sham arthroscopy (“placebo” surgery with no removal of tissue/bone), and 104 to no treatment. All participants were then reassessed 6 and 12 months later using the Oxford Shoulder Score as an outcome measure.4
Results showed that outcomes after surgical decompression are no better than sham surgery and both are only slightly better than no treatment at all (although the clinical significance of this difference is questionable).4
Holy crap! Sham surgery? I’d be pissed.
One thing I can’t ignore with this type of study is the body’s response to trauma. It’s possible that the sham surgery was enough of an intrusion to generate a healing response from the body.
My wife had necrosis of a bone in her foot. It was dying due to lack of bloodflow and would continue to die if they didn’t do something. The doctor drilled two holes in the bone. He took two “core” samples of bone from her heel and put those in the holes of the dying bone. This simulated a fracture and the goal was to get the body to send blood and other good stuff to the area to repair the damage.
It worked and it restarted the supply of nutrients and blood to the area.
The body fixed the problem; the procedure was just a catalyst that tricked the body to respond.
These kind of studies have even been done with heart and lung surgery, if I recall correctly, those were mentioned In that video of surgery and placebo.
the conclusion ‘movement is not harmful’ does not follow from 'biological beings adapt to the stress they face '. movement can induce a lot of injuries maybe even death, the body will adapt resulting in scar tissue or something unless the subject died of course.
He jerks it, he did push press 150×2 a few weeks ago though
Oh okay. My coaches coach doesnt really include chest work besides dips in people programming either I think. I added 20kg to my push press last cycle without training chest. Do you think eventually il need to?
To be honest, I dont pay attention to things like “Vertical jump to find your deadlift stance.” my deadlift stance was alot closer prior to yesterday and it was kinda horrible, yesterday it felt great!
“the process in which a living thing changes slightly over time to be able to continue to exist in a particular environment”
Death is not adaptation. And we are talking about training here, not movement caused by someone twisting your limbs. Sure it can hurt you if you manage your loading poorly or if you have bad luck. With really bad luck (thinking of a medical issue here) it could kill you, but for the vast majority of the population that isn’t a issue to be concerned about.
My own deadlift really started to increase when I took a closer stance, but also had to point my feet out to adjust for my ludicrously long legs. I think I’m in a decent spot with it now.
Your coach is Ngarimu, correct? I’ve seen him, and I highly doubt chest work has never been a part of his training. He may very well not need it anymore, but he’s clearly put work into it in the past at the very least. The fact that he includes dips in other people’s programming also tells me that he values chest strength at least to some degree.
I will say, conservation of mass, making sure you’re adding weight to your body in the most effective areas, is an important thing in the lighter weight classes of strongman. My guess is that he believes his chest is developed enough at this point that further adding to it would have diminishing returns. He’s probably right that, for him, maybe adding more leg strength, core strength, shoulder strength, etc, is a more effective way of being a better strongman than adding weight in the chest area.
This is why Eddie Hall is not necessarily the best example to use if you happen to be concerned with maintaining a low-ish bodyweight. When he was chasing his WSM title and world records, it made sense for him to just add size and strength EVERYWHERE. Even areas that yielded less than ideal returns for the effort were worth maximizing, because every little bit counted for him. It’s kind of why basically every guy at WSM has a massive chest, but the guys with massive chests in lower weight classes don’t necessarily win everything.
As for you, specifically, yes I think you’ll need to add chest size, because I think you’re still at a point where you need to add everywhere. But that being said, dips and things like incline press may be sufficient for you to get where you want to be.
Maybe in the past, but I’ve never seen him bench in the 2 years ive known him. He use to do crossfit (65% of his lifting career) so maybe that’s why. He also never even mentioned bench to me at all, and didnt even include any benching in my programming.
Coaches coach*
I think I can push press more than I bench. My chest is weak and small for sure lol!
so to be clear, I’m not saying you have to bench. lol. Or that anyone has to bench, specifically, to develop chest strength. Dips can absolutely be a full-time substitute for benching and chest development. And as a crossfitter, I’m positive he’s done plenty of those, along with muscle ups, in his training career. I don’t want my point to come across as ‘you have to bench’.
If you have good leg drive, that’s actually not so crazy. It WOULD be crazy if you could strict press as much as you can bench.
10 min Emom circus dumbell
30kg
1 rep every minute. Really light but felt really weird, I can tell this is a very technical lift.
Back squats
2 second descent, 2 second pause in bottom. Fuck these! I was whimpering like a little bitch
6×3 90kg
Incline db row
25kg 2×12 squeeze at top, nice and light
External rotators
2×15
Wow amazing session. Hip feeling good, squats had no hip shift either! Best technique yet. Very happy. Feeling strong and ready for the training to ramp up in the coming weeks. That 180kg front squat is coming real soon!!