Rioting in St. Lou

[Pearsy92]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

You just ignored all the things i stated and compared something moronic to knock down a straw man.

Were Irish people 8 times more likely to be imprisoned for drinking or selling alcohol?
[/quote]

You really want to get into this? Okay. When you say “eight times more likely to be imprisoned” do you mean that black people who are convicted are eight times more likely to be imprisoned than white people who are convicted for the same offence? Even if you do mean that(please show source) then that has nothing to do with the drug laws themselves - it’s to do with the sentencing.

Was alcohol more illegal and face harsher penalties than other drugs? The answer is no, thus your comparison is false.

Society recognises that some drugs are more harmful than others. Nothing to do with race. In fact, crack was considered more serious due to the enormous harm it was wreaking on the black community in the 80’s.
[/quote]

Crack hasn’t had a quarter of the impact cigarettes and alcohol have had on all communities, pretending the dangers of crack which pale in comparison are reasons for the tearing apart of black families, the imprisonment of people for taking and using substances on a voluntary basis seems very pro state and anti freedom. Also hypocritical, unless you think the white kids doing shots also deserve to be sent to prison.

If these laws affected middle class white people there would likely be a huge and loud condemnation of them. Yet white kids from secure families are not usually being sent to gladiator school for selling a bit of coke. A black kid selling a vial of crack (which does not get you higher and is not cheaper than powder gram for gram according to most knowledgable people on the issue, including Rick Ross, Dr Carl Hart).

[/quote]

[countingbeans]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion.

[DoubleDuce]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I think the laws placing higher penalties for example on crack dealing and crack use, are biased in a way that a black person selling crack in Compton will receive a much longer sentence, often times for lesser amounts of drugs, be it crystal meth and other predominantly white usage/dealing drugs.

So the 18th Amendment discriminated against the Irish? Lol. Whatever dude.[/quote]

You just ignored all the things i stated and compared something moronic to knock down a straw man.

Were Irish people 8 times more likely to be imprisoned for drinking or selling alcohol? Was alcohol more illegal and face harsher penalties than other drugs? The answer is no, thus your comparison is false.
[/quote]

disparity <> discrimination

Disparity can happen for a large number of reasons only some of which are actual discrimination.
[/quote]

Do you think racism might have something to do with the disparity in the amount of black people being pulled over, stopped and searched, sent to prison for the same crimes white people get off with and getting longer sentences than other white people imprisoned etc?

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

There are lots of reasons. Based on what you are claiming, the NBA is racist against white players. If you want to talk discrimination though, you need better evidence. You need at least to attempt to account for many many other factors.[/quote]

That is just silly. Getting into the NBA depends on skill, if you are the best being white holds no barriers. Your example is just recognising that more basketball players are black, mine shows that black people face far higher rates of imprisonment for the same crime, these two comparisons are night and day.

If a black guy and a white guy sell drugs and one goes to prison the other gets community service, there is an actual difference in treatment. If this is so overwhelming it becomes a structural problem.

[/quote]

How good were the lawyers? What are the attitudes of the criminals? how do they carry themselves? are they remorseful? Do they agree to plea deals more? Are they repeat offenders? What locations are they living in (judges tend to be harsher overall in some areas)?

It could very easily be that judges in high crime inner cities are callused and harsher while coincidentally sentencing more blacks. While this could be an area of contention and place to improve the legal system, it’s not racism.

And FYI I’m heavily against the drug war.

[SexMachine]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Crack hasn’t had a quarter of the impact cigarettes and alcohol have had on all communities,

[/quote]

That has nothing to do with race.

pretending the dangers of crack which pale in comparison are reasons for the tearing apart of black families, the imprisonment of people for taking and using substances on a voluntary basis seems very pro state and anti freedom. Also hypocritical, unless you think the white kids doing shots also deserve to be sent to prison.

The relative dangers of crack and the extent to which the law sanctions those possessing or distributing it has nothing to do with race. It’s a separate topic and belongs in the “war on drugs” thread.

If these laws affected middle class white people there would likely be a huge and loud condemnation of them. Yet white kids from secure families are not usually being sent to gladiator school for selling a bit of coke. A black kid selling a vial of crack (which does not get you higher and is not cheaper than powder gram for gram according to most knowledgable people on the issue, including Rick Ross, Dr Carl Hart).

The fact that more black people use crack than white people does not mean that the law constitutes “structural racism.” White people are more likely to be arrested for white collar crimes but harsher sentencing requirements for white collar crimes would not constitute “structural racism.”

[SexMachine]

Still waiting for the source BTW.

[Pearsy92]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?

[NorCal916]

Someone in this thread is citing Rick Ross as a source…

[countingbeans]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[Pearsy92]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?

[countingbeans]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?
[/quote]

Is it logical that you assume what my position is when I’ve made zero assertions other than you haven’t sourced anything?

No, in fact that would be stupid. So I know that isn’t what you are doing.

Source your data, or give up the fight.

[DoubleDuce]

Actually, seeing disparity and jumping onto the “racism” train is many times a disservice to the people on the short end of the disparity. For example, the possible reasons I stated before could be grounds for improving the system and altering the disparity. But if racism is assumed the root cause could be overlooked and the result is continued disparity.

[Pearsy92]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?
[/quote]

Is it logical that you assume what my position is when I’ve made zero assertions other than you haven’t sourced anything?

No, in fact that would be stupid. So I know that isn’t what you are doing.

Source your data, or give up the fight. [/quote]

From Human Rights Watch

So the HRW link and screenshot of Ranking of States by Ratio of Black:White Prison Admission Rates for Drug Offences. Source: National Corrections Reporting Program, 2003.

Then we can look at the studies showing white people are more likely to use drugs than black people and then we can look at the overwhelming figures showing black people are jailed and arrested far more often than white people for using drugs, yet white people are more likely to be using.

What do these figures tell you? White people are more likely to use drugs, yet black people are far more commonly arrested and jailed for possession and usage of drugs. That tells you a lot.

[NorCal916]

^ source: Sharpton, Al

[countingbeans]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?
[/quote]

Is it logical that you assume what my position is when I’ve made zero assertions other than you haven’t sourced anything?

No, in fact that would be stupid. So I know that isn’t what you are doing.

Source your data, or give up the fight. [/quote]

From Human Rights Watch

So the HRW link and screenshot of Ranking of States by Ratio of Black:White Prison Admission Rates for Drug Offences. Source: National Corrections Reporting Program, 2003.

Then we can look at the studies showing white people are more likely to use drugs than black people and then we can look at the overwhelming figures showing black people are jailed and arrested far more often than white people for using drugs, yet white people are more likely to be using.

What do these figures tell you? White people are more likely to use drugs, yet black people are far more commonly arrested and jailed for possession and usage of drugs. That tells you a lot.[/quote]

Didn’t read your post, not going to. I said links to data, not fucking pictures. This isn’t pre-school. We don’t need picture books.

This is at least the 3rd time you’ve tried this shit on this board, and under this account name, you’re failing just as hard as the others.

Again, source your claims or go play in the kiddy pool on other site that can’t read about a “picture book” level.

[countingbeans]

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
^ source: Sharpton, Al[/quote]

I’d take a link to his site at this point over the garbage trying to get passed of here.

Last time this was tried was under a different name and in a “wage discrimination” thread.

Same old song and dance, same poster, different screen name.

[Pearsy92]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?
[/quote]

Is it logical that you assume what my position is when I’ve made zero assertions other than you haven’t sourced anything?

No, in fact that would be stupid. So I know that isn’t what you are doing.

Source your data, or give up the fight. [/quote]

From Human Rights Watch

So the HRW link and screenshot of Ranking of States by Ratio of Black:White Prison Admission Rates for Drug Offences. Source: National Corrections Reporting Program, 2003.

Then we can look at the studies showing white people are more likely to use drugs than black people and then we can look at the overwhelming figures showing black people are jailed and arrested far more often than white people for using drugs, yet white people are more likely to be using.

What do these figures tell you? White people are more likely to use drugs, yet black people are far more commonly arrested and jailed for possession and usage of drugs. That tells you a lot.[/quote]

Didn’t read your post, not going to. I said links to data, not fucking pictures. This isn’t pre-school. We don’t need picture books.

This is at least the 3rd time you’ve tried this shit on this board, and under this account name, you’re failing just as hard as the others.

Again, source your claims or go play in the kiddy pool on other site that can’t read about a “picture book” level.
[/quote]

The source includes fucking tables and graphs, as do most real sources. What exactly do you think a source is?

[SexMachine]

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Pearsy92 wrote:

Or is it all other stuff, in your opinion?[/quote]

without links this is all opinion. [/quote]

Right, but we can form an educated guess, based on the current data we have, right?[/quote]

I don’t see data. I don’t see a single link. I see people making specific claims at figures that have no source, and I see people refuting the unsourced claims with general logic and reason…

[/quote]

So there is no structural racism in the USA, the laws regarding drugs are in no way biased against black people?

That is logical?
[/quote]

Is it logical that you assume what my position is when I’ve made zero assertions other than you haven’t sourced anything?

No, in fact that would be stupid. So I know that isn’t what you are doing.

Source your data, or give up the fight. [/quote]

From Human Rights Watch

So the HRW link and screenshot of Ranking of States by Ratio of Black:White Prison Admission Rates for Drug Offences. Source: National Corrections Reporting Program, 2003.

Then we can look at the studies showing white people are more likely to use drugs than black people and then we can look at the overwhelming figures showing black people are jailed and arrested far more often than white people for using drugs, yet white people are more likely to be using.

What do these figures tell you? White people are more likely to use drugs, yet black people are far more commonly arrested and jailed for possession and usage of drugs. That tells you a lot.[/quote]

Even if we accept these statistics they have nothing to do with drug laws but rather with sentencing. Looking at sentencing disparities may have some validity - although other factors need to be taken into account, ie previous criminal convictions, access to defence, presentation in court etc - but the law itself is not relevant to race.