[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Jumanji wrote:
One machine works the hamstrings dominantly over the distal joint, the other works the hamstring dominantly over the proximal joint… one emphasizes knee flexion, the other hip extension…
What are your training needs should be the question…
No?
J
I dont think the reverse hyper emphasizes the knee extension function of the hamstrings. If the tibia is not changing its relationship to the femur, and the only movement occuring is at the hip joint how is knee flexion emphasized? But I do think you get a much stricter movement immobilizing the legs rather than immobilizing the torso, and you can concentrate on using the GHR for your needs. The reverse hyper also uses the lower back to a much greater extent because it is extremely hard if not impossible to maintain a flat back position and not allow spinal flexion to contribute to the movement doing a reverse hyper. I would take both if I could get my hands on them, but the GHR is the better exercise, I would use the reverse hyper sparingly…
[/quote]
Shadowz~
You changed arguments midstream… kinda got me confused (easy to do).
The Reverse Hyper emphasizes the lower back, glute and hamstring tie-ins during hip extension.
The Glute Ham isometrically trains the glutes and calves for the most part, while utilizing the hamstrings in the knee flexion role…
Or have I gone cookoo…?
I do think the stress that is placed on the hammies during the GHR is a great preparation tool for high force situations found in sport… but the function (and firing pattern) of the hammies during a GHR is completely unfound in competition as far as I can tell. So, it is a more general means of preparation.
I see what your talking about. The glute ham raise I am talking about may not even be considered a glute ham raise, it is more of a horizontal oriented hyperextension, where your thighs are on a flat pad and not a curved pad and your thighs do not move.
Not sure if this is considered a glute ham raise. But as far as the firing pattern I dont know about that, I personally think the GHR and even the version your talking about of the GHR is a better sport specific movement than for example a leg curl is.
Because while the leg curl movement is seen in sprinting and the dynamic femur movement on a fixed tibia is not, it is still a closed chain exercise and has similar benefits to a Romanian DL. Its kindof a Romanian Dead with a leg curl…
I dont see how a GHR is any less “sport specific” than a reverse hyper. Because slow speed high force knee flexion is not seen in sport doesnt mean it wont translate. Open chain hip extension may be good for variation but it is definitely replaceable. Also, explain why this movement is sport specific. I cant think of a single sport that involves this movement pattern.
I meant open chain hip extension. I guess what I was getting at is, what makes an open chain hip extension exercise more useful in sports than a closed chain knee flexion, neither is seen in sports. And if you are getting specific into kicks in MMA, there are holds and grappling techniques that utilize knee flexion.
But I am talking more about football, basketball, baseball sports, you know running and jumping based. Also, you can choose from a variety of deadlifts which are much better exercises than reverse hypers. Sure, knee flexion isnt seen often, but there are only two basic ways to do it, GHR and leg curls, that is why I think it is the least necessary of the two movements.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
I meant open chain hip extension. I guess what I was getting at is, what makes an open chain hip extension exercise more useful in sports than a closed chain knee flexion, neither is seen in sports. And if you are getting specific into kicks in MMA, there are holds and grappling techniques that utilize knee flexion.
But I am talking more about football, basketball, baseball sports, you know running and jumping based. Also, you can choose from a variety of deadlifts which are much better exercises than reverse hypers. Sure, knee flexion isnt seen often, but there are only two basic ways to do it, GHR and leg curls, that is why I think it is the least necessary of the two movements.[/quote]
Ok, we agree to disagree.
The point is still that the more useful for the guy asking lies in what his needs are… which was my main point…
Without knowing that piece, it is rather difficult to say one or the other… IMO.
For speed, (and regrettably, gyms here do not have the GH machine) would my son (9th grader) do:
squats, DLs, stiff-legged, DLs, calf raises, jumps of all kinds, uphill sprints? My assumption is depth jumps too but I don’t know exact progression. He’s in football, Coach J is right, short burst speed is king. BTW, any time under 11 sec is pretty good for a HS runner…
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
GHR…hoping to get one from Elite in another year or so. I just completed the basics needed for my home gym. That’s the only thing I could use and want to finish my home gym.[/quote]
U know if you hava a rack you can do GHR with power rack and smith ball at least, guess you are dping that already but getting proper GHR anyway.
The simplest way to look at it is: one works the hip extension movement of the hams (RH) and the other works the knee flexion movement of the hams (GH).
In an ideal world, for complete hamstring development both are needed (and both are damn good exercises.