Most religions are just an excuse to do something your reason wouldn’t allow you to do.
Why people want to ‘get away with’ their lives in beyond me. Aren’t we supposed to live as men, not rodents?
[quote]pat wrote:
Using innocent disabled people to do your dirty work. That’s the sick part. [/quote]
I’ll disagree. It is the 100+ innocent people killed that’s the sick part. Whether it’s executed by F-16’s, car-bombs, civilian Boeings or suicide bombers are just details.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Damn, Schwarz. Not bad. You snuck in and preempted me while I was typing out my last post.
But I see we’ve reached opposite conclusions, so we’ll have to ask Lixy for an opinion.
Lixy? Scharz says that the 2nd Sura of the Qur’an is “not worth much.” Do you agree or disagree?[/quote]
Schwarz apparently believes the Quran has been sorted out from older to newer Surahs. The fact of the matter is that the 2nd Sura is Medinian and undoubtedly posterior to the Hijra. In fact, a passage in that Surah (I recall it’s towards the end - can’t tell the number from memory) has been revealed in the last year of the prophet’s life.
I don’t know who put the idea that Quranic Surahs were chronologically ordered in Schwarz’s mind. What I do know is that his/her knowledge about the Quran is “not worth much” at all!
[quote]lixy wrote:
Do you do any critical thinking at all? If any of the crap you wrote was true, why are the billion and a half Muslims sitting on their hands? Shouldn’t they be, as you put it, “spreading Islam by force”?
Let me guess…you learned from “Loose Change” that Bush was behind 9/11?
Also, how is blowing up people in markets “spreading Islam”?[/quote]
Sorry, I couldn’t hear you between wretches.
It’ll be a couple days before I can get this Islamophobia out of my system.
I’d think blowing people up in markets is killing the Jewish “invaders” in Israel. Since the people pay taxes which fund the military, that makes them a part of the army, apparently.
ElbowStrike
[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
I’d think blowing people up in markets is killing the Jewish “invaders” in Israel. Since the people pay taxes which fund the military, that makes them a part of the army, apparently.
[/quote]
So…? How does killing Jews help spread Islam?
Anyway, comparing Iraq to Israel is pretty stupid. The last suicide bomber in Israel was over a year ago, and before that, there was a ten-months period without any. They rarely (fortunately!) make victims in the double digits. The last one got 3 people as far as I know. Iraqi suicide bombs are different in the sense that they’re ubiquitous. The one the OP’s talking about got over a 100 people. It’s another league.
you didn’t answer my question, so let me break it down; Pat talks about a bomb attack (allegedly remote-controlled) that killed plenty of people in Baghdad. You then quote him and add that the only guaranteed way for a Muslim to get into heaven is to die in Jihad against non-believers, spreading Islam by force (which is a load of cock!). I overlook that bit of disinformation, the fact that the bombers were allegedly unaware of what they were doing, and ask you if you think the perpetrators are “spreading Islam”.
It was a rhetorical question showing how your logic is fundamentally flawed.
Unfortunately, earlier passages are made null and void by passages that came later. Unfortunately, those tend to be much more violent, and resemble the Jihad mentality.
And technically you don’t have to become a muslim, if accept the status of Dhimmi. See, no compulsion! You can still be a christian, as long as you know your place within an Islamic society. Need a new church built? Got to get approval! Want to attend university? Are you muslim?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
2:256: “the cow”
There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
Hmm,
to my knowledge , later suras, which contradict earlier estabished principles in the book, are ranked higher (zhey even make the former ones obsolete).
As this is the second sura, it’s not worth much.
Schwarz,
Thank you for that. FWIW, I think if we had “met” under different circumstances (i.e, without Orion’s anti-American vitriol polluting the environment), we’d have probably had much less animosity.
In any case, thanks again.[/quote]
Well, you do often come across as a hothead. But thank you.
I believe Orion is, like me, a staunch friend of America even if you can’t recognize that.
If you’d know how seldom I come across a paleo liberal like him here in Europe!
And as to Lixy, he is actually good for the forum and a decent guy. He practically never pulls the endless ad hominem, tries to make a valid point and most of the times engages your arguments. Still, his freakish Quran streak gives me the shivers. As I can’t bear religious bigotry and pity historical illiteracy I often feel compelled to speak out against this monotheism nonsense.
I tell you seriously, this is one of the two or three most important things the human race has to lay aside. And so I see lixy, whom I consider intelligent and reasonable enough as some kind of a traitor to rationality. But since he gets too much contra anyway I hardly find it appropriate to chime in.
Shame he ran from the “Muslim DaVinci Code” Thread 
-Schwarzfahrer
P.S. what does “Chushin” mean? “Schwarzfahrer” means “fare dodger” (lit.: black driver).
Alright you got me. I wasn’t paying attention. I am teh suck.
Last I heard, Al Qaeda had declared Iraqi supporters of the US forces and the democratic government to be enemies of Islam, or honour-bound to resist, or something to that degree. Basically he demanded that they resist or be blown up.
The majority are not violently resisting, so AQ seems to following up on their threat.
Also, isn’t there a Sunni/Shia split in Iraq? Is AQ majority one or the other? They may not “feel bad” about killing Muslims on the other “side”, since they aren’t “true Muslims” anyway.
Humanity’s typical tribal mindset: US VERSUS THEM!
ElbowStrike
[quote]lixy wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Damn, Schwarz. Not bad. You snuck in and preempted me while I was typing out my last post.
But I see we’ve reached opposite conclusions, so we’ll have to ask Lixy for an opinion.
Lixy? Scharz says that the 2nd Sura of the Qur’an is “not worth much.” Do you agree or disagree?
Schwarz apparently believes the Quran has been sorted out from older to newer Surahs. The fact of the matter is that the 2nd Sura is Medinian and undoubtedly posterior to the Hijra. In fact, a passage in that Surah (I recall it’s towards the end - can’t tell the number from memory) has been revealed in the last year of the prophet’s life.
I don’t know who put the idea that Quranic Surahs were chronologically ordered in Schwarz’s mind. What I do know is that his/her knowledge about the Quran is “not worth much” at all![/quote]
No, I don’t really know “much” about the Quran. And yes, I thought it’s sorted, perhaps not chronologically, but according to importance. Silly me-Only read the text once with some annotations. Undoubtly, you knowledge surpasses mine.
But what is important here: There IS a complex priority system involved and no one can really sort it out. Like in the bible, you can read anything and even the wildest contradictions make sense, somehow - to the enlightened, of course.
The bestest books, written by gods are either incomprehensible, taken literally, barbaric nonsense or, if the reader knows the “deeper” meaning, lead to insane stuff like the threads original topic.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I don’t know who put the idea that Quranic Surahs were chronologically ordered in Schwarz’s mind. What I do know is that his/her knowledge about the Quran is “not worth much” at all![/quote]
Aren’t they the biggest to the smallest chapters? I heard that somewhere. Anyone know exactly how the Quran is compiled?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Unfortunately, earlier passages are made null and void by passages that came later. Unfortunately, those tend to be much more violent, and resemble the Jihad mentality. [/quote]
Interestingly, I see the opposite to be true. I did not read the Koran front to back, but maybe I should one day.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Unfortunately, earlier passages are made null and void by passages that came later. Unfortunately, those tend to be much more violent, and resemble the Jihad mentality.
Interestingly, I see the opposite to be true. I did not read the Koran front to back, but maybe I should one day.[/quote]
It’s not in chronological order, from my understanding.
Edit: To be clear, there is a change from when Muhammad was in Mecca, to Medina.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
And technically you don’t have to become a muslim, if accept the status of Dhimmi. See, no compulsion! You can still be a christian, as long as you know your place within an Islamic society. Need a new church built? Got to get approval! Want to attend university? Are you muslim?[/quote]
So essentially, the same status that Jews accepted in Christian Europe for most of the last millennium.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And technically you don’t have to become a muslim, if accept the status of Dhimmi. See, no compulsion! You can still be a christian, as long as you know your place within an Islamic society. Need a new church built? Got to get approval! Want to attend university? Are you muslim?
So essentially, the same status that Jews accepted in Christian Europe for most of the last millennium.
[/quote]
Yes. Fortunately, Christianity doesn’t call for the subjugation of jews, which makes reform much easier.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Yes. Fortunately, Christianity doesn’t call for the subjugation of jews, which makes reform much easier.[/quote]
Doesn’t any more, you should say, and I think this is a key point.
Christianity has had twenty centuries to iron out the kinks, so to speak. But how tolerant were Christians toward other faiths in the year 1428 AD? Remember that this year was just after four centuries of Crusades, during the Reconquista, right before the Inquisition, and a few decades before the start of the Golden Age of forced conversion and Church-approved genocide in the New World.
The reason I bring this up is that 1428 is what year it is right now, by the Islamic calendar.
When that same calendar ticks over to 2008 (in another 580 years), I predict that the gentle, peace-loving Muslims will look back at suicide bombings and violent jihads with the same horror and disgust with which most Christians look back on the Crusades, Inquisitions, Pogroms, and other examples of violent Christian extremism.
Oh, by the way, I also predict that Islam will become the dominant religion of the planet far before that.