Watching newbies fucking up in the gym, using horrible form and potentially injuring themselves, sucks ass. But most people have said that they hate unsolicited training advice. So what do you do? Let someone wreck their lower back etc. or be perceived as an arrogant know-it all (even when you give as pleasant advice as is possible)?
You can’t win.
deanosumo,
If your knowledge is such that you can see a serious potential to harm in their technique, then you have an ethical responsibility to give even-handed advice. If you approach as an accomodating equal, more often than not, they’ll pay attention.
Most people don’t merit the interjection. A guy flopping back and forth behind a curling bar isn’t likely to harm more than his ego.
Complete novices are generally far more open to advice, particularly if you take the time to become a friend first, and then a mentor.
DI
Alright, I got to be able to vent this stuff somewhere. I am Mr helpful in the gym, but some folks just don’t want your help. The dude squating 495 for 6 inches does not want my help!! why would he need my help he is lifting as much as me probably more, he feels like he should be giving me advice.
In the past 6 or 7 years I have totally changed the way I approach people in the gym, the helpless dude who obviously has no clue and knows it, I’m all over him if he is asking me for help first. Mr Skinny complex, bouncing, jerking, yelling etc, this guy is lookin’ tough and he needs no help ( not always) I make sure I appear approachable if these guys feel like I can help them, then eventually they’ll ask, My advice is worthless otherwise.
Soooo, let me have a forum where I can talk about these guys, cause I need the outlet!!! They may want some help tomorrow
I love being in the gym when it is empty.
Generally I ignore the people around me. As long as they are not in my way, I don’t care what they do.
But if they just come up and offer advice, they had better know what they are talking about. I have pissed off a few people. Mostly personal trainers.
As the person who started one of those threads with the story of father and son bouncing ridiculous amounts of weight off their sternums, I would point out that those are the types of people who will not listen to reason. It just ain’t worth the grief. With that said, as someone who fully qualifies as a former class-A gym dork, I don’t mind offering advice to someone who is clearly serious but is risking their health or long-term lifting career. You can pretty easily tell the types who are serious and those who are just there to impress with their 500-lb 1/4 squats or chest-trampoline bench press with spotter deadlift. Believe me, if it weren’t for a few people helping me out with advice and inspiration (and I don’t mean the dipshit who almost pulled me over backwards with 300 lb. on my shoulders), I’d probably still be a gym dork!
I think what most of us are talking about when we make fun of the people at our gym we are referring more to the one’s who are either a) doing the miracle super workout of the week, or b) the guys who want to go to the gym to impress or meet women, or c) the clowns who come up to you with their weekend training certificate who want to give you unsolicitaed advice about how you should workout. I try to keep to myself when I workout, I’m an antisocial individual, but if someone comes up to me and asks my advice I’ll give what I can or if a person wants a spot I’ll do that as well
Hey, there is a good side to making fun of gym fools here. It helps people learn. Think about it. If you happen across this site and see us laughing at something you are doing, you might look a little deeper and try to figure out what you should be doing instead.
Phew, thank goodness! Now we can continue to make fun of these tools at will, since we have a really good excuse to do so!
By the way, when I was new to the site, these topics were very entertaining and helped bring me back.
just thought i’d make one thing clear: it’s not nice to laugh unless it’s a good joke i hear in the gym, but it’s okay to shake your head. yesterday evening in the gym, a trainee of strength bust out of his backpack he had on the gym floor a set of 3 pound dbs (rubber coated) and proceeded to do concentration curls. I shook my head.
They are his and not the gym, and there are many things I can do with a pair of 3lb dbs (shoulder rehab or prehab, sprinting techniques, shadowbox, etc) But I didn’t think concentration curls was a part of the regimine.
As a bystander how’d I know they were concentration curls? I asked him what he was doing. He answered the above and I asked what he does for athletic activity, if he’s an endurance athlete etc (dealing with light weight training). He just wanted to be tone and not get big and bulky because his wife doesn’t like big muscle guys. Oh-kay…
A note on superiority and perception.
First let me say, I too have taken a moment to bitch about the utter ineptness which floods my gym. I know it is not a serious workout facility, it is a YMCA and even worse, a YMCA in the land of soccer moms who do not have jobs: being a trophy wife is their full-time job and they do it marvelously. Their houses are perfectly decorated and we all take turns going around to each other’s “it’s summer time, celebrate my new wardrobe and be amazed with my new curtains and kitchen appliances” parties. Yes, that is my neighborhood and consequently, that is my gym.
I walk into my gym five days a week and see quite a collection of weightlifters, the only thing really missing from the mix is serious lifters, but that is okay, on a occasion I’ll see one or two in there but it doesn’t matter, I go to my gym to workout, not to chit chat. I am a social animal in ANY other setting, but there is quite frankly nothing to talk about when I am in the gym. It is me and my personal challenges: but god I love the scenery! I always look around and see what people are doing. The “exercises you’ve never tried” series has nothing on the neophytes at my gym in the realm of creativity, though effeciency is another matter. I look around with a poker face though, because god knows everyone is there for their own reasons and under different circumstances. Someone people like the idea of exercising and could care less about the results, some people like the results and could care less about exercising: both are great visuals and who am I to mock them? Do I think my cause is more noble than theirs? You are DAMN RIGHT I do, but that does not at all mean that their cause is not more noble to them. Anyone seen American Beauty? I think that the father was completely justified in working out as he did. The truth is, EVERYONE of us goes to the gym to feel good about ourselves. Some people require more than others: some need a well planned and executed work out with appropriate PWO nutrition and enough supplements to feed hundreds of ethiopian children for a week or two when considering costs (and no, this is not a shot at humor), others need a burn, and others still just need to go to sleep thinking “I did good today, I went to the gym even though I didn’t want to.” Doesn’t matter what they did there, they went and that is enough for them to feel good about themselves? We are all there for egotistical reasons, some just have more productive ones.
I don’t go to the gym with an MP3 player… I am in the process of getting one but there isn’t one that meets my needs out yet so I’ll have to wait until the end of June when iriver puts out the 795. None the less, I am not looking for other people to fill auditory gap. I will be completely honest: I would have LOVED to have been able to approach one of the guys at my gym and asked how to do cleans/snatches, but I am not lying when I say that I have NEVER seen a single person at my gym do one: ever. You know what though, that isn’t what they are there for and seeing as that is why I am there, I waited until I got the free weight area all to my self, I moved all the benches and took the bare olympic bar and taught myself how to do it. I have pretty damn good form now, and I worked hard but believe me when I say that I’d have prefered to have been shown how to do them. Oh, and for those who don’t know, I am 17, the kid you all bitch about in the gym, the kid who “would never listen to advice if it was given.” Trust me, every kid my age I know would love someone to show them how to do things, but they are too damn embarassed to ask. Even more so, when you show them how to do things correctly, they listen.
Whoever it was telling the story of the scrawny kid doing lat delt raises, let me tell you a little secret. Do you have ANY clue how insecure teenagers are? Yeah, you were a kid once, you probably have a good idea, but its easy to forget because even though you are insecure now, you have hopefully gotten a bit better. I will bet my supply of four tubs (well, canisters, too small to be tubs) of surge that the kid listened to what you said and applied it, but made sure that you didn’t know because that would mean admitting he was wrong to you AND his friend. Count that out as a possibility. I bet you the next time he went to work out when his friend wasn’t there or when he wasn’t looking, he tried doing them correctly again, but to do it in front of you… no, that wouldn’t have happened. Blame his insecurities, but not his passion, his desire, or his heart. I bet you he appreciated you helping him more than you’d know.
Have I ever been helped in the gym? Unfortunately not, and it sucks. Luckily, I only wasted 6 months of my life lifting without a clue. It didn’t matter though, my first six months I spent on machines and I built up decent core strength: the free weights would have been much harder to maneuver if I went straight to them and I wasn’t fat: around 12% bf so I had plenty of fat to power protein synthesis and I actually got lots of protein. I could have improved my diet in hundreds of ways but the reults of all of that wouldn’t have mattered much. I am aware though, that starting out and not having a clue sucks, so when I see other people, I help them out in every way I know how. If you think people don’t listen to you… imagine having a 17 year old telling you what to do and how to do it. None the less, I have NEVER been blown off and without exception, people have ALWAYS heeded my advice, albeit not always immediately.
I once saw a women squatting on the smith machine and her form was horrendous, nothing paralyzing but truly more harmful than beneficial. When she was done with her set, I walked over, passed pleasantries, and proceeded to explain to her the dynamics of squatting. She was in her 20’s and pretty hot and I am sure she was very confident in her lifting abilities, but I simply wasn’t. After a few minutes, she said thank you and did her next set the exact same way she had done her previous one. I wasn’t really phased by it, I did my last set of squats in the rack and went to get some water. As I was at the fountain, quite a distance from the smith machine, I was pleasantly surprised. She very inconspicuously looked around, as though she was just stretching neck, noticed that no one was paying attention and I was gone, and started squatting correctly, slowly and concentrating, rethinking what I had told her. Unfortunately, there is a mirror in front of her and as I got closer, she quickly went back to “her” squats as though she had been doing them all along. I didn’t say anything else and I didn’t see her for quite awhile: my hours are somewhat sporadic and I very rarely see the same people twice. I saw her probably a month ago though, effectively a month after our “talk” and she was squatting with impeccable form. She saw me and kept squatting with good form. She didn’t smile or say anything, she didn’t need to. By chance, it was my day for squats and I moved right into the rack and loaded her up. Down I went for a light warm up set of 12 and as I turned around, she said “do you mind if I work in with you?” Well I am very big on rests between sets, nothing long but definetly make sure to get my 2 minutes so of course, I always say yes. She says “Do you think I can do as much here as I can on that thing?” and I said “I am sure you can.” I didn’t know if it was a weird challenge for her to show me that she now knew as much about squatting as me or what. She walks in and says, “So how exactly do I do this?” I knocked off most of the weights so it was significantly lighter and we quickly covered the differences between free squats and “fake” squats. She learned quick… she had developed good strength and form from the smith 
I still don’t see her much but when I do, she always smiles and waves.
She is one of many people I have helped in the last six months that I have been serious about weight lifting and in the end, it almost always ends up the same way. Some people are more open and start heeding the adivce immediately, other’s need their time to cover up any possibility that they were wrong, whatever have you, but in the end, no one ever resents being helped. Do I help everyone I see? Nope, but I ahve a decent judge of character and do a fairly good job picking out the people who want it but won’t ask or don’t realize they need it. I have never had a rash experience like you all have had and I dono’t think yall realize that much of your advice has been taken warmly, though perhaps not openly. Before you post another “bitch and moan” post, I defy you all to help someone instead of privately laughing at them, even if they are doing 1/8’s… obviously they want to move big weights, why don’t you help them get there? Despite what people say, it is our human instinct to improve ourselves and get better, and though some people have boxed up their instincts and left them in the attic, they are very much there and something even the “laziest” of us would love to bring back down and unpack, truth is they are scared of what else might be up in the attic, get the box for them and maybe even a knife to help them cut the tape and what have you. If you are offering genuine advice in the gym and people aren’t listening to you, consider how you are coming off to them: are you that condescending and aloof that they would rather fight their instincts and volitions to ameliorate themselves instead of take your advice? A well built bodybuilder or even a normal looking guy who is dedicate to his iron is just as alien to a spandexer as he is to you so when you approach him to help out, just remember that you have to over come the same barriers he’d have to overcome if he wanted to make any suggestions to you.
Don’t blame other’s for your unfavorable interactions with humanity. We are all just regular people trying to get the best we can out of our life and trying to be as happy as we can. Some people are just willing to put a lot more into it than others. If the guy standing next to you really wants to hit it big at the slot machines but is scared of losing a dollar to risk and can’t seem to come to a decision, put the dollar in for him and let him take his pull at the slots, worst comes to worst, you’re out a dollar. Big deal, PM me and I’ll write you a dollar ever time you do that, my job doesn’t pay much, but I can spring for it if you can’t: some people just put more into life than others.
Spoken with uncommon introspection. Seventeen, indeed.
I don’t know who you are, and at 195 and 7%, I doubt you need my advice, but I will keep an open eye toward your posts in the future.
DI
Great post from Sexy J, I don’t mean to be condesending as I know some very smart teenagers but you sound wise indeed. Although it was a long time ago (I’m 38 now) I remember being an insecure teenager lifting in the same gym as some very strong people desperately trying to keep up; I thought I was squatting 400lbs but it was more of a half squat descent with a good morning ascent, my poor old lower back hurts just thinking about it! I have many more examples of my crappy lifting technique but I’m still going and it’s due many people helping me over the years. These days 80% of my training is done at home but I still have many people who help keep me going; my partner, a couple of friends who sometimes get brave and come over to train with me, the image of Dave Tate and Jim Wendler beating the crap out of me before benching at an Elite seminar last year, I still have nightmares about that, and of course the great support system on this website (and elite). Ok I’ll stop being a luvvie now and get back to the subject at hand. The way I look at it is does the person offering the advice do so because they’re concerned with helping the individual or are they doing it for some other reason. If their sentiments are sincere then thank them even if the advice may be floored. -BJ
Sexy J - very well written. I have two boys about your age. I can only hope that they to gain the insight that you already have. I’m working with them but there’s somewhat of the “Yeah whatever Dad.” Maybe not that direct but it is there under the surface.
Regards.
Sexy J - good post, man. But I’m still going to post the ridiculous stuff I see in the gym, when one of these threads starts up, if I have anything new to say. My gym just wouldn’t be as much fun without skinny guy and 80’s guy and jazzercise guy. Does that mean I think I’m “superior” to them? In some ways, yes. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I would love to help these dudes that are flailing about the gym, but they are not there to listen to me. You can either cry or you can laugh, my friend – so I choose to laugh. The folks I CAN help, I do; like the girls I’ve got working out T-vixen style now, and a couple of guys from work who show up to work out with me sometimes. The freaky ones… well, just let me promise you something: if you came to my gym and saw these folks – you’d laugh too.