Resistance to Supplements

Nutrition
21

[quote]Modi wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
It looks like you may have some misconceptions as to what the effects are supposed to be.

I’ve found that ZMA and Alpha Male in particular do have a noticeable effect, but it is not immediate or buzz/drug like.

They aren’t supposed to.

For the record, I hope no one interpretted my post as “this is what I am currently taking”. It is a list of supps that I have tried in the past, some of which I am still taking.

As far as the Alpha Male goes, maybe I just want to believe the marketing. Here is a quote from the product page:

“In fact, you could call the new Alpha Male the ultimate male “elixir.” So, if you’re interested in maximizing T and reducing body fat and feeling like kicking ass and taking names, Alpha Male is the animal for you.”

Sounds like it has noticible effects. Bear in mind that I continue to have nice strength gains, and I also continue to take Alpha Male in case the gains are in part due to it.

Most people that have recommended ZMA swear by it, and most made statements along the lines of “it will pretty much knock you out…you will have the deepest sleep you have ever had…you’ll fall asleep faster and deeper, etc.”

I can only base my decisions to try a product on the companies claims or those of my peers. Many of these supps don’t have tons of studies backing them, so I am just going by what others have told me.

Obviously in the past, if something didn’t work for me I stopped taking it, and that will be true of my current supplements if that turns out to be the case.

I am not trying to get high/buzzed/euphoric off supps. I take them so that I can a)have a better workout b)get better results from my workout or c)recover quicker from my workouts. That is all. If I wanted to take drugs to get high, I wouldn’t be posting my results here.

It doesn’t seem like I am the only one that may not get the full benefit from supps that others get.

I welcome your comments.[/quote]

No offense, but your expectations sound almost childlike and absolutely ridiculous. You come across as the type who hears, “brand new amazing supplement X will blow your mind!!!” and you literally run to the store expecting this to have a greater effect than a handfull of amphetamines. You are expecting ‘drug like’ effects from supplements and that makes little sense. While ZMA may help you sleep better, to believe it makes you sleep like a narcotic (such as you should not drive or operate heavy machinery after taking it) is a step beyond what would be expected by most.

Likewise, while Spike may be a decent product in pill form, it is not a stimulant…therefore, you won’t be feeling the effects like you would an ephedrine based supplement unless caffeine is added in large amounts.

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am going to be harsh and I can’t believe no one else has up to this point. Anyone foolish enough to take 3-6 times the recommended dosage of ANYTHING deserves what they get. Ephedrine was banned because if people doing dumb shit just like this. You expected Zinc to make you fall a sleep immediately? Like a narcotic or a few Benedryle capsules? Is anyone else not seeing the HUGE problem here?

The majority of the shit you listed doesn’t have much of an effect for you to feel in the first place. Those claiming a fat burner “didn’t work” are probably like the overweight housewives I used to see in college when I worked at GNC who would return bottles of Xenedrine because they hadn’t lost any weight from it…while drinking a supersized vanilla milkshake right in front of me.

Supplements are not meant to take the place of your training or somehow do the work for you. They also don’t all have “feels” to them.[/quote]

Feel free to be harsh. One of the reasons I started this post was because I didn’t see the point in taking more of something if I didn’t feel I was getting the benefit. Both for the cost and the health reasons.

I completely agree with your comment on 3-6x dosage. That was 15 years ago, and it probably wasn’t the only stupid thing I did back then. With the exception of ZMA, I have stayed under the max dosage that was recommended for all of the supps. If my ZMA dosage is too high, I will happily back off. My assumption (wrong as it may be) is that I carry a little more mass than the average american male and that I might need a higher dose to elicit a given response.

23

[quote]Modi wrote:
I completely agree with your comment on 3-6x dosage. That was 15 years ago, and it probably wasn’t the only stupid thing I did back then. With the exception of ZMA, I have stayed under the max dosage that was recommended for all of the supps. If my ZMA dosage is too high, I will happily back off. My assumption (wrong as it may be) is that I carry a little more mass than the average american male and that I might need a higher dose to elicit a given response. [/quote]

See, this is where I think people get a little bit confused on ZMA (at least to me). I don’t think of it as a sleep-aid supplement at all. I think getting more restful sleep happens to be a pleasant side effect of taking it.

To me, it’s more about an effective means by which to improve the zinc deficiencies a lot of people experience from hard training and how that can impact your T levels. Poliquin was talking about this in his last article on here.

So, taking more than the recommended dosage is a pretty bad idea with any mineral. Just stick with what is recommended.

24

[quote]Kuz wrote:

See, this is where I think people get a little bit confused on ZMA (at least to me). I don’t think of it as a sleep-aid supplement at all. I think getting more restful sleep happens to be a pleasant side effect of taking it.

To me, it’s more about an effective means by which to improve the zinc deficiencies a lot of people experience from hard training and how that can impact your T levels. Poliquin was talking about this in his last article on here.

So, taking more than the recommended dosage is a pretty bad idea with any mineral. Just stick with what is recommended.[/quote]

Ok,
I will cut back to recommended dosages, and accept better sleep as a side effect. Thanks for some constructive criticism.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No offense, but your expectations sound almost childlike and absolutely ridiculous. You come across as the type who hears, “brand new amazing supplement X will blow your mind!!!” and you literally run to the store expecting this to have a greater effect than a handfull of amphetamines. You are expecting ‘drug like’ effects from supplements and that makes little sense. While ZMA may help you sleep better, to believe it makes you sleep like a narcotic (such as you should not drive or operate heavy machinery after taking it) is a step beyond what would be expected by most.

Likewise, while Spike may be a decent product in pill form, it is not a stimulant…therefore, you won’t be feeling the effects like you would an ephedrine based supplement unless caffeine is added in large amounts.[/quote]

Professor,
Again, I respect your knowledge and experience, if not your presentation. Maybe my expectations are too high for these supplements, that’s why I’m looking for other peoples opinions.

I’m not sure if you are open to criticism, but if you are you can’t really start a sentence with

“No offense but…”

and finish it with:

“almost childlike and absolutely ridiculous”

and not expect to offend someone…

26

[quote]Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:

No offense, but your expectations sound almost childlike and absolutely ridiculous. You come across as the type who hears, “brand new amazing supplement X will blow your mind!!!” and you literally run to the store expecting this to have a greater effect than a handfull of amphetamines. You are expecting ‘drug like’ effects from supplements and that makes little sense. While ZMA may help you sleep better, to believe it makes you sleep like a narcotic (such as you should not drive or operate heavy machinery after taking it) is a step beyond what would be expected by most.

Likewise, while Spike may be a decent product in pill form, it is not a stimulant…therefore, you won’t be feeling the effects like you would an ephedrine based supplement unless caffeine is added in large amounts.

Professor,
Again, I respect your knowledge and experience, if not your presentation. Maybe my expectations are too high for these supplements, that’s why I’m looking for other peoples opinions.

I’m not sure if you are open to criticism, but if you are you can’t really start a sentence with

“No offense but…”

and finish it with:

“almost childlike and absolutely ridiculous”

and not expect to offend someone…[/quote]

Obviously, the majority of my posts are to evoke a response, not to simply be calmly read. You responded. It worked.

27

[quote]Modi wrote:
Kuz wrote:

See, this is where I think people get a little bit confused on ZMA (at least to me). I don’t think of it as a sleep-aid supplement at all. I think getting more restful sleep happens to be a pleasant side effect of taking it.

To me, it’s more about an effective means by which to improve the zinc deficiencies a lot of people experience from hard training and how that can impact your T levels. Poliquin was talking about this in his last article on here.

So, taking more than the recommended dosage is a pretty bad idea with any mineral. Just stick with what is recommended.

Ok,
I will cut back to recommended dosages, and accept better sleep as a side effect. Thanks for some constructive criticism.

[/quote]

Very welcome. Thanks for asking honest questions and looking to actually learn. It’s a refreshing change from some of the nonsense often seen here.

28

[quote]Modi wrote:
Has anyone else found that they just don’t respond to supplements very well?

I’ve tried a lot of diffent brands over the years, for many different reasons, and I just don’t get much out of them.

Here are a couple of examples.

In the past I used to take ephedrine by the fistful to get a bump of energy. 2-4 pills did nothing, it usually took 10 to get wired.

HMB - I went through 2 bottles before I realized that whatever it was supposed to do, was not happening.

Creatine (not Biotest) - I did gain some strength and weight with this product.

Alpha Male - Started with one pill twice daily for two weeks, then 2 pills twice daily for 3 weeks, then 3 pill twice daily. I don’t think I feel anything.

Spike - One pill at a time…nothing. Two pills at a time, not sure…three pills at a time, a little more focused, but no real energy boost…two pills and a Spike Shooter, pretty decent energy, but seems like a lot.

ZMA (not Biotest) - I tried 3 pills 1 hour before bed for 2 weeks, and didn’t notice anything, moved up to 4 pills, sleep seems the same. 5 pills, and I think I’m sleeping more soundly, but it doesn’t knock me out, and I don’t have vivid dreams.

After reading all the testimonials, I have to believe these are all great products, I know people that use and love them, so they must work. But I don’t really want to crank that many pills at that cost, not to feel whatever it is I’m supposed to be feeling.

Please know that I am not trying to make Biotest look bad at all. I just want to know if anyone else out there is “supplement resistant” like I appear to be.[/quote]

Unless your diet and training is in order, supplements won’t do shit. Look up “supplement” in the dictionary for further elucidation.

29

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Unless your diet and training is in order, supplements won’t do shit. Look up “supplement” in the dictionary for further elucidation.[/quote]

The party is already over man, but thanks for saving the day!