Thanks you for posting that. It was the PK profile I remember from @iron_yuppie awhile back that made me mention it.
@RT_Nomad not sure how this would translate into trying to pair doses. The absorption/release is drastically different so I think @Andrewgen_Receptors would almost have to play with the dose almost as if starting from scratch.
Adding the decay curves should be fairly simple. Get some graph paper with Cartesian coordinates (horizontal x-axis and vertical y-axis).
Place the NPP curve in the lower left hand quadrant of the graph paper. Decide your injection frequency. And place another NPP curve on the next injection day. And then place a third NPP curve on the third injection day. You might need to do this for a few more cycles. Now graphically add the y-axis values of the NPP curves. This new curve will give you the NPP level in your body for all injections over those days.
Then place an ND curve starting at day zero. My initial guess if using the green curve is you should try to double the dose of ND. Add (double in this case) the curves to construct a new ND curve. Now choose an injection frequency for ND injections. Place the doubled ND curve to start on the day of the second injection of ND. Do the same thing for the third ND injection. Now graphically add the y-axis values of the NG curves.
Now compare the totaled NPP curve to the totaled ND curve. Observe how close the two curves come to coinciding. To get them closer you have two variables that you can adjust.
It might take a few sheets of graph paper to obtain a similar profile of the two different Nandrolones.
Edit: Once both curves have reached their peak and before both curves are beginning to decline, that is where you want the curve to be similar.
(assuming the curves are accurate)
Looks like @Andrewgen_Receptors has some homework to do!
This data seems flawed. Compare Green with Orange… how is it that more Deca equates to lower serum concentrations than 4x the dose? That doesn’t say anything about the NPP, but it makes me question the accuracy of this, and removes the best effective marker (comparing NPP gluteal 4mL to ND gluteal 4mL) from play IMO. So what do we do with this data? Probably nothing with regards to NPP, but Deca seems accurate and along similar trends.
Math adds up to about a 3% difference as noted by @anon18050987 and @unreal24278 in the Nandrolone Deep Dive thread
Plotting out via release curves between Deca and NPP, the midline release of NPP (peak+trough/2) would be roughly 75mg for NPP, and roughly 65mg for Deca. Again, we don’t have valid data (IMO) to compare this to as the release curves between 4mL Gluteal ND and NPP do not make sense - so I don’t think there’s much to be extrapolated from that data.
Question: How does one effectively feel ‘dialed in’ on deca/npp?
I notice no difference in anything except my knees feeling better, and mildly improved gym performance - so how would I go about feeling dialed in?
I’d be fine with going off and plotting data as @RT_Nomad suggested, but the data presented isn’t accurate - and more importantly, isn’t accurate to me.
My thought was that the 4ml ND was 1/4 the concentration of the 1ml ND. But that was just an assumption.
I found the concentrations after much googling
Unsure if this means the actual dose was 4x the value, or if it is watered down as you mentioned. I had assumed the mg/mL dosing was a constant.
I don’t have access to
If your only metric is how you feel, all you are left with is a feedback system: take more until the negative effects are noticeable.
From my experience with Deca, was my first injection that I stacked onto one of the orals. That was in 1977. The only strength Deca I could get was 100mg/ml that I took weekly. That was the first year I excelled in bodybuilding. On Anavar and Deca I was dry on stage.
Maybe 100mg/wk Deca or less would be a workable level.
No doubt. I do think something a lot of people (not you or the other’s active on this thread recently) don’t realize is clearance time is also dependent on dose (at least in regards to having low enough levels of the AAS to not have side effects).
The utility of the faster clearance rate is greater if one is taking cycle / blast doses. With lower doses (50-100 mg/wk), even a long ester AAS will be at low concentration within a week or two after stopping.
I’d personally just go with ND if I was going to use Nandralone, but I’d start low and titrate up over time.
I’d prefer a medium length ester for most things though. Something like E or C.
If there were an AAS that I would like to add to my TRT protocol, it would be Deca. I don’t know how receptive my doctor would be doing this.
Has there been any discussion on this forum about using a nandrolone on “cruise” in addition to testosterone HRT therapy? I would think 50mg/wk Deca could be a reasonably safe dosage.
I tried it through my old clinic. I don’t remember my prescription but it was somewhere between 100mg-150mg/wk alongside my 150mg/wk TRT. Joints felt great, muscle mass increased, but I still had weird mental side effects and ED issues even on the low dose.
I’ve been cleared for up to 200mg Deca/wk alongside my TRT at 180mg/wk.
“TRT” indeed, but it’s for “joint health”. Doubtful a primary would see it that way though.
I’ve got to say that this seems not very responsible out of a clinic. I know it happens all the time though.
I’d say in this case be your own doctor regarding risk.
I was thinking more along the lines of a long term therapeutic dose to complement TRT
Once I gave up competition due to the devastating effects of dermatamyositis, I so no reason to add muscle.
But if you are talking about sarcopenia, I am hesitant to using orals at my age. With dermatamyositis I have relatively high liver function bloods every year since I was diagnosed with the disease. I was even sent on two different occations to be further tested for liver concerns.
What the trial dosage of Anavar? When I used it they only came 2.5mg/tablet.
I recall your post. When I was first noticing what turned out to be symptoms of dermatomyositis I was in a full-on contest AAS protocol for a major contest that I picked to focus on doing. I did not do well. But I will say that I kept the muscle weakness symptoms at bay, though I was getting weaker, more so than I should have. Once I stopped the cycle, muscle fell off of me at a rapid pace. So AAS is probably an effective treatment for dermatomyositis caused muscle wasting.
My doctor never prescribed it and I found no literature of AAS as a therapeutic treatment. And I was a member of a dermatomyositis support group throughout the USA and Canada. His treatment protocol was to attempt to have my immune system reset itself through immunosuppressive drugs, in my case Medrol.
I will consider approaching my doctor with a very mild addition of either Anavar or Deca to my TRT. Thanks for urging me to open my options for fighting sarcopenia.
@anon18050987 big issue I had with NPP (been like 3-4 years) was cardiac autonomic dysfunction (seriously prolonged time for HR to decrease post exercise). I could go into the mechanisms as to why this is the case… but that’s not relevant here.
I only used around 100mg/wk briefly
Also… cognitive dysfunction (noticable), although i’m VERY sensitive to this. If I’m less ‘sharp’ relative to my baseline… I will notice it. There are a few theoretical mechanisms that could cause this this (backed up via rodent models).
I percieve this to be a benifit as my overtly analytical mindset frequently leads to thought loops, anxiety and unecessary catastrophising. I find the way my brain works to be profoundly isolating. The autonomic dysfunction was what put me off… I percieve the cogntive effects to be beneficial.
If i’m dumber I can’t retain as much knowledge… therefore I wouldn’t worry as much. That’s my biggest worry about potentially going to med school one day… the medical knowledge I have is already a mediator of SO much anxiety!
I’m frequently referred to as an ‘encyclopedia’ by my friends… my class nickname in university was “young sheldon” for a little while.
It’s not nice… I assume you @anon18050987 have noticed this too.
Who is prescribing this outside of the T mills? Outside of the context of a muscle wasting disease etc I think you’d be hard pressed to find a doctor willing to prescribe this.
5mg of oxandrolone is still enough to tank HDL… any dose of oxandrolone high enough to elicit a cosmetic benefit will screw lipids. On par with stanozolol… 5mg/day is probably in the ballpark of HDL -40% LDL +30% for most.
Interestingly a BB on youtube by the name of vigorous steeve talks about using oxandrolone like this (5mg per day for a couple months).
If only doctors could prescribe methenolone in the USA or Aus…
Not in Australia… 
In Australia you can’t prescribe AAS aside from testosterone, danazol, mesterolone and tibolone
The rest you’d need a special importation license to procure as they aren’t in stock here.
