Religulous: The Movie

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
162

[quote]anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?[/quote]

LMAO!

Oh man, religulous experiences indeed.

I wish God would talk to me. I wish I could see a ghost or something paranormal - sadly, I believe it’s all bullshit.

The amount of times people have been exposed as frauds for conning others when it comes to anything “other-worldly” is just sickening, and doesn’t leave me with much hope and belief in most humans. So many people trying to get ahead and pull the wool over someones else’s eyes.

I think the only time I’ve ever felt anything was after my first communion; I had this strange euphoric feeling the rest of that day - I remember it quite clearly. Never again though - but that could really be down to anything. Hell, it could be the $100 in presents I got from it.

163

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I’m not entirely buying that, or actually I am but not it’s implications. Atheism is not a religion, granted, but the relation between some atheists and religion is a different matter. I mean, do you know atheists who have an urge to tell stamp collectors that they have a primitive hunter-gatherers mind? [/quote]

That depends.

Are the stamp collectors trying to sell them something, while telling the atheists that they will burn if they don’t buy it?

165

[quote]anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?[/quote]

Yep. It told me that exposing hypocrits is a GOOD thing, you know, like those who prattle on about atheism/agnostism yet beg God’s forgiveness on their death beds. Witness the rank hypocrisy here.

166

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Unless you have personally interacted with God, unless God has spoken directly to you, then atheism (more so agnosticism) is probably the most logical point of view.

God has spoken to me on more than one occasion, so I do believe in God (though not in religion).

Can you elaborate on that last part for us?

Certainly. But such an experience is not subject to testing and will be ridiculed by many.

(1) My fiance in college died suddenly (heart arrythmia). That night, not sleeping very well (obviously), an oceanic voice said simply, ‘THE SPIRIT’. Since my life has been unbelievably good since then, I surmise it was God.

(2) While studying the Gita, I once was awakened by another deep voice (not like the first above) that said, ‘VISHNU’. Once again, I take that as the voice of God.

(3) While driving to work early one morning, a voice said quite clearly and in my car, “I want you to adopt a little girl from China.” I nearly ran off the road. I convinced my wife and we did adopt a wonderful little girl. My wife thought I was crazy as we already have 2 biological kids.

Well, there it is. Psychosis? Prof X thinks so, as do many others. But I told you about my subjective experiences and there it it.

Check into Bellevue. Immediately.[/quote]

See?

167

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?

LMAO!

Oh man, religulous experiences indeed.

I wish God would talk to me. I wish I could see a ghost or something paranormal - sadly, I believe it’s all bullshit.

The amount of times people have been exposed as frauds for conning others when it comes to anything “other-worldly” is just sickening, and doesn’t leave me with much hope and belief in most humans. So many people trying to get ahead and pull the wool over someones else’s eyes.

I think the only time I’ve ever felt anything was after my first communion; I had this strange euphoric feeling the rest of that day - I remember it quite clearly. Never again though - but that could really be down to anything. Hell, it could be the $100 in presents I got from it.[/quote]

I was as atheistic as anyone here before these events. I thought religion was the greatest trick that’s ever been played on humanity. Now I realize that it was probably someone relating an interaction with God. Too bad evil people got ahold of it and used the person’s writings to grab for power.

168

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:

Are the stamp collectors trying to sell them something, while telling the atheists that they will burn if they don’t buy it?

Some of them can be very pushy.

I don’t want your fucking Apollo 11 commemorative stamps! Jesus! Get off my porch.[/quote]

Walked right into your living quarters, eh? The nervy bastards!!

169

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?

Yep. It told me that exposing hypocrits is a GOOD thing, you know, like those who prattle on about atheism/agnostism yet beg God’s forgiveness on their death beds. Witness the rank hypocrisy here.

[/quote]

in all honesty , what would be wrong with not knowing , and at the end covering your ass ?

170

Head Hunter:

Do you believe that at least some people who claim to hear the voice of God have a genuine brain function disorder?

If the answer to that question is yes, you honestly have to ask yourself what makes the voices you hear any different. Given that conditions like schizophrenia are spectrum disorders (meaning there are varying levels of crazy), you honestly have to ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, the voices were generated inside your head.

Also, do you not find it curious that you heard three different voices? Were these all the same God? Was there more than one God talking to you? If it was the same God, why the different voices?

Here is the deal with my atheism. I will believe in God when the evidence is in. A book written 2000 years ago that is FULL of holes, contradictions, and moral atrocities will not cut it.

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.

I have no belief, or lack of belief, so strong that good evidence will not convince me otherwise.

171

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?

Yep. It told me that exposing hypocrits is a GOOD thing, you know, like those who prattle on about atheism/agnostism yet beg God’s forgiveness on their death beds. Witness the rank hypocrisy here.

in all honesty , what would be wrong with not knowing , and at the end covering your ass ?[/quote]

Given that the fear of death is a huge driving force in many peoples belief in God and an after life, we should not find it surprising that people who are mildly atheistic “repent” on their death bed. If you took away the heaven and hell from religion, how many people do you think would sign on to them?

People who commit to atheism for intellectual reasons (logic, reason, evidence… I will get into these if anyone so desires) would be much less inclined to do so, I think. Richard Dawkins has said he wants a camera rolling on him when he dies so that the religious cant make up stories about a death bed conversion like they did with Darwin.

172

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Head Hunter:

Do you believe that at least some people who claim to hear the voice of God have a genuine brain function disorder?

If the answer to that question is yes, you honestly have to ask yourself what makes the voices you hear any different. Given that conditions like schizophrenia are spectrum disorders (meaning there are varying levels of crazy), you honestly have to ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, the voices were generated inside your head.

Also, do you not find it curious that you heard three different voices? Were these all the same God? Was there more than one God talking to you? If it was the same God, why the different voices?

Here is the deal with my atheism. I will believe in God when the evidence is in. A book written 2000 years ago that is FULL of holes, contradictions, and moral atrocities will not cut it.

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.

I have no belief, or lack of belief, so strong that good evidence will not convince me otherwise. [/quote]

Well said Lonnie.

173

Here is a post one of my close friends made on the topic. A tad long but I think it covers the topic of modern day atheism relatively well in many respects without delving too much into the nitty gritty logic and biblical analysis.

http://twentysomethingsblog.com/?p=190

174

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Head Hunter:

Do you believe that at least some people who claim to hear the voice of God have a genuine brain function disorder?

If the answer to that question is yes, you honestly have to ask yourself what makes the voices you hear any different. Given that conditions like schizophrenia are spectrum disorders (meaning there are varying levels of crazy), you honestly have to ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, the voices were generated inside your head.

Also, do you not find it curious that you heard three different voices? Were these all the same God? Was there more than one God talking to you? If it was the same God, why the different voices?

Here is the deal with my atheism. I will believe in God when the evidence is in. A book written 2000 years ago that is FULL of holes, contradictions, and moral atrocities will not cut it.

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.

I have no belief, or lack of belief, so strong that good evidence will not convince me otherwise. [/quote]

As I said before, a religious experience is a singular event. It cannot be falsified and is therefore not subject to proof. That is why I don’t argue or try to persuade anyone. I don’t WANT someone to accept anything on faith.

If God ever speaks to you, you too will doubt your sanity and be unable to prove any of it to anyone. Waiting for evidence is in itself a waste; God either speaks to you or not.

As to ‘hearing voices’: since I hear no other voices, and consider myself to be at least somewhat rational, I have to judge those singular events in context of who I am and how I react to external events that are more ‘provable’. I conclude that these voices were not grounded in mental disturbance. Mental disturbance would evidence itself in other ways, not just these 3 events.

175

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.
[/quote]

Isn’t that a bit idealistic stance? Who cares if you damn god morally when you burn eternally in hell. In fact, it would be perfectly logical given how life in general goes. Steveo or someone else of the believers on this board have made that point before and I think it is a good one. God, if he/she exists, owes you nothing but you owe everything.

176

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
anonym wrote:
Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?

Yep. It told me that exposing hypocrits is a GOOD thing, you know, like those who prattle on about atheism/agnostism yet beg God’s forgiveness on their death beds. Witness the rank hypocrisy here.

in all honesty , what would be wrong with not knowing , and at the end covering your ass ?[/quote]

the fact that it would be pointless. If you didn’t truly believe but claimed to just to get the good stuff, then if god were real he would see through your sham and you would be screwed. That is the problem with Pascal’s wager. You lose both ways.

177

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.

Isn’t that a bit idealistic stance? Who cares if you damn god morally when you burn eternally in hell. In fact, it would be perfectly logical given how life in general goes. Steveo or someone else of the believers on this board have made that point before and I think it is a good one. God, if he/she exists, owes you nothing but you owe everything.[/quote]

…it would only be logical if i asked to be born, but i didn’t. So i owe nothing to nobody. Besides, i’d rather go to hell than spend eternity with christians in heaven (-:

178

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…it would only be logical if i asked to be born, but i didn’t. So i owe nothing to nobody. Besides, i’d rather go to hell than spend eternity with christians in heaven (-:

[/quote]
Blah, without god you wouldn’t be here stating that you owe him nothing. Gratitude is a healthy feeling if you don’t overdo it. But still, I would prefer to sit in heaven listening to eternally chanting believers and wondering and lamenting why I couldn’t just wither away, than burn forever.

179

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
ephrem wrote:

…it would only be logical if i asked to be born, but i didn’t. So i owe nothing to nobody. Besides, i’d rather go to hell than spend eternity with christians in heaven (-:

Blah, without god you wouldn’t be here stating that you owe him nothing. Gratitude is a healthy feeling if you don’t overdo it. But still, I would prefer to sit in heaven listening to eternally chanting believers and wondering and lamenting why I couldn’t just wither away, than burn forever. [/quote]

…still, even if your god did exist and he was responsible for my existence; i never asked for this life, did i? So i’ve been given a gift i never asked for, and i’m expected to pay gratitude and reverence to an entity that may or may not exist, in the hopes of eternal life in his presence BUT if i do not pay this gratitude, eventhough i try to live my life to the best of my conscience, i’m tormented for eternity in hell…

…does that sound rational to you kaaleppi? Let me tell you this: suppose christians are right and after i die i’m brought before god to be judged, and he asks me, “Why did you not believe in me?” I would answer, “Because that belief would not have made me live a better life, or made me a better person. You made me as i am, and i lived my life as i am without restraint, giving what i could give and taking little to fit my needs. If that’s not enough, there’s nothing that can satisfy you.”

…but i’m fine with death, fine with the end being the end.

180

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…still, even if your god did exist and he was responsible for my existence; i never asked for this life, did i? So i’ve been given a gift i never asked for, and i’m expected to pay gratitude and reverence to an entity that may or may not exist, in the hopes of eternal life in his presence BUT if i do not pay this gratitude, eventhough i try to live my life to the best of my conscience, i’m tormented for eternity in hell…

…does that sound rational to you kaaleppi? Let me tell you this: suppose christians are right and after i die i’m brought before god to be judged, and he asks me, “Why did you not believe in me?” I would answer, “Because that belief would not have made me live a better life, or made me a better person. You made me as i am, and i lived my life as i am without restraint, giving what i could give and taking little to fit my needs. If that’s not enough, there’s nothing that can satisfy you.”

…but i’m fine with death, fine with the end being the end.
[/quote]

To make things clear, in case there is confusion, I don’t know, but better make it clear anyway. I’m not a believer. As Sloth said earlier about agnostics, they do not believe him or anyone of his kind when it comes to interpretation of holy scripts. I consider myself to be one of those agnostics.

There are two points I have tried to make:

  1. There is no such thing as an atheist that is neutral towards religion, especially the christian varieties. History prevents that.

  2. Religion is not rational in the first place. It’s about emotions. And this capability to touch emotions is at least as valuable as having a rational explanation for the world, life and everything. Many people do feel gratitude for their life.

If you are a believer you thank god and if you are an atheist you notice, a little surprised perhaps, that you just had a feeling that you wanted to thank somebody for no good reason. Me, as an agnostic thank god anyway, even though I have no idea what he/she actually is.

181

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…still, even if your god did exist and he was responsible for my existence; i never asked for this life, did i? So i’ve been given a gift i never asked for, and i’m expected to pay gratitude and reverence to an entity that may or may not exist, in the hopes of eternal life in his presence BUT if i do not pay this gratitude, eventhough i try to live my life to the best of my conscience, i’m tormented for eternity in hell…

…does that sound rational to you kaaleppi? Let me tell you this: suppose christians are right and after i die i’m brought before god to be judged, and he asks me, “Why did you not believe in me?” I would answer, “Because that belief would not have made me live a better life, or made me a better person. You made me as i am, and i lived my life as i am without restraint, giving what i could give and taking little to fit my needs. If that’s not enough, there’s nothing that can satisfy you.”

…but i’m fine with death, fine with the end being the end.

To make things clear, in case there is confusion, I don’t know, but better make it clear anyway. I’m not a believer. As Sloth said earlier about agnostics, they do not believe him or anyone of his kind when it comes to interpretation of holy scripts. I consider myself to be one of those agnostics.

There are two points I have tried to make:

  1. There is no such thing as an atheist that is neutral towards religion, especially the christian varieties. History prevents that.

  2. Religion is not rational in the first place. It’s about emotions. And this capability to touch emotions is at least as valuable as having a rational explanation for the world, life and everything. Many people do feel gratitude for their life. If you are a believer you thank god and if you are an atheist you notice, a little surprised perhaps, that you just had a feeling that you wanted to thank somebody for no good reason. Me, as an agnostic thank god anyway, even though I have no idea what he/she actually is.[/quote]

I concur ,It is almost like vacillating between believing and not knowing

182

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:

I want to see something real, something concrete. I want to see the stars rearrange themselves and spell out “Lonnie, This is God” and I want there to be evidence that it actually happened. If God will truly punish me for not believing in Him, he owes it to me to prove his existence to the level of my skepticism… He created me knowing full well I would be skeptical after all, right? If he does not satisfy my curiosity, then he is the one damning me to Hell, not me.

Isn’t that a bit idealistic stance? Who cares if you damn god morally when you burn eternally in hell. In fact, it would be perfectly logical given how life in general goes. Steveo or someone else of the believers on this board have made that point before and I think it is a good one. God, if he/she exists, owes you nothing but you owe everything.[/quote]

sigh
Why oh Why does every still hold this idea of hell being a physical fire that burns are non-physical entity like a soul?