Religulous: The Movie

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I have nothing more to contribute to this thread, but I think Emo Philips does.

I was in San Francisco once, walking along the Golden Gate Bridge, and I saw this guy on the bridge about to jump. So I thought I’d try to stall and detain him, at least long enough for me to put the film in.

I said, “don’t jump!” and he turned…

You’ve heard of the elephant man. He was kind of like that, he had a, well, you could say he had the head of a horse. And my heart went out to him. I said, “why the long face?”

He said, “all my life people have called me mean names like horse-head or Flicka or chess-piece or Trigger?”
I said, “well, don’t worry about it, Ed. It can’t be that bad.”

He said, “my girlfriend’s suing me!”
I said, “for palomino?”

He said, “why was I put on this Earth?”
I said, “my friend, anywhere else you wouldn’t stand a chance.”

He said, “nobody loves me.”
I said, “God loves you, you silly ninny.”

He said, “how do you know there’s a god?”
I said, “of course there’s a god. Do you think that billions of years ago a bunch of molecules floating around at random could someday have had the sense of humor to make you look like that?”

He said, “I do believe in God.”
I said, “are you a Christian or a Jew?”

He said, “a Christian.”
I said, “me too. Protestant or Catholic?”

He said, “Protestant.”
I said, “me too! What franchise?”

He says, “Baptist.”
I said, “me too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Baptist.”
I said, “me too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”
I said, “me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist.”
I said, “me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region.”
I said, “me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist
Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”
So I said, “die, heretic!” and pushed him off the bridge.[/quote]

He had to be sure and have his camera ready. Who could blame him for that?

142

I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

143

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.[/quote]

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

144

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.[/quote]

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.

145

[quote]lixy wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.[/quote]

Haha, that may well be so, but I think he has stumbled on an universal truth here, with the word certain excluded.

146

[quote]lixy wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.[/quote]

What prompted this? I’m going by the common dictionary definition, I believe. Though, perhaps they’re much like atheists, and it just on the denomination.

But to review what I said:

  1. Agnostics don’t profess either way. There may or may not be a God, gods, big-cheese, or whatever.
  2. Not knowing if any of the above exist, they wouldn’t have any clue to the any of the above’s nature.
  3. However, while admittedly not being sure about the existence and nature of the divine, many still feel pretty certain in telling a religious person they have it wrong.
147

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
lixy wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.

Haha, that may well be so, but I think he has stumbled on an universal truth here, with the word certain excluded.[/quote]

Ah, it was the “certain” addition. I’ve yet to meet an ‘agnostic’ that isn’t certain Christianity is a fairy tale. In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen this here from self proclaimed agnostics. Then again, we do have diestic atheists, yet afterlife agnostics, on this board.

148

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.

What prompted this? I’m going by the common dictionary definition, I believe. Though, perhaps they’re much like atheists, and it just on the denomination.

But to review what I said:

  1. Agnostics don’t profess either way. There may or may not be a God, gods, big-cheese, or whatever.
  2. Not knowing if any of the above exist, they wouldn’t have any clue to the any of the above’s nature.
  3. However, while admittedly not being sure about the existence and nature of the divine, many still feel pretty certain in telling a religious person they have it wrong.[/quote]

You wrote about agnostics that “they’re certain your religion has it wrong”.

That couldn’t possibly be farther from the truth.

149

[quote]lixy wrote:

You wrote about agnostics that “they’re certain your religion has it wrong”.

That couldn’t possibly be farther from the truth.[/quote]

I’m aware of the contradiction. It’s at the heart of my statement.

150

[quote]lixy wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m getting the impression that atheists are pretty sectarian these days. With the various definitions, and all.

And agnostics. Well, they’re not sure if there is a God or not. Or, if so, what his nature would be like. But, they’re certain your religion has it wrong.

Well said, Sloth. That’s the truth, across the board. It could be a part of the human condition or something like that.

I’m not sure Sloth knows what agnosticism means.[/quote]

I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any; I personally do not know I guess I am an Agnostic

151

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any; [/quote]

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

152

[quote]lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.[/quote]

Unless you have personally interacted with God, unless God has spoken directly to you, then atheism (more so agnosticism) is probably the most logical point of view.

God has spoken to me on more than one occasion, so I do believe in God (though not in religion).

153

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Perhaps Makavali can fill us in on Hinduism. [/quote]

There are hundreds of sub-sects. There are several “main” branches, but they are all supposed to be generally unified. Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism and Smartism.

Vaishnavism is essentially worshipping Vishnu and his avatars first and other Gods after.

Shaivism is the same with Shiva.

Shaktism is the same with Devi (female goddess). This gave rise to the Tantras, and often people think it means venerating women over men. It actually means respecting your mother over others, and holds that men and women are (generally) two halves of the same being i.e. one cannot exist without the other.

Smartism is the belief that any and all of the Gods should hold an equal place in your worship, as everything is interconnected to Brahman (the supreme being/state of consciousness). This would be the closest thing to how you would describe my belief in God. The only thing I take issue with is the ritual, and the supposed need to worship a being of such power and omnipotence.

Conversion is generally frowned upon, as you can only come to Hinduism of your own free will (that, and they view all religions as leading to the same finish line when practiced sincerely without creating bad karma).

Your children are not supposed to be raised “Hindu” either, but rather come to their own conclusions about their place in the cosmos when they are old enough. Of course, there are plenty of morons who think that this part is optional.

/edumacational wall of text

154

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Unless you have personally interacted with God, unless God has spoken directly to you, then atheism (more so agnosticism) is probably the most logical point of view.

God has spoken to me on more than one occasion, so I do believe in God (though not in religion).

[/quote]

Can you elaborate on that last part for us?

155

I see the typical Atheist as being as devoted to there being no God as most fundamentalist Christians are that there is a God. I feel if there is a God he is going to expect me to question his existence. And being that devoted is my definition of religion.

156

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Unless you have personally interacted with God, unless God has spoken directly to you, then atheism (more so agnosticism) is probably the most logical point of view.

God has spoken to me on more than one occasion, so I do believe in God (though not in religion).

Can you elaborate on that last part for us?[/quote]

Certainly. But such an experience is not subject to testing and will be ridiculed by many.

(1) My fiance in college died suddenly (heart arrythmia). That night, not sleeping very well (obviously), an oceanic voice said simply, ‘THE SPIRIT’. Since my life has been unbelievably good since then, I surmise it was God.

(2) While studying the Gita, I once was awakened by another deep voice (not like the first above) that said, ‘VISHNU’. Once again, I take that as the voice of God.

(3) While driving to work early one morning, a voice said quite clearly and in my car, “I want you to adopt a little girl from China.” I nearly ran off the road. I convinced my wife and we did adopt a wonderful little girl. My wife thought I was crazy as we already have 2 biological kids.

Well, there it is. Psychosis? Prof X thinks so, as do many others. But I told you about my subjective experiences and there it it.

157

Did the spirit offer its two cents on getting your little girl a vibrator?

159

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…

No, you don’t, because nothing you described is an inherent problem for religion - what you describe are inherent problems with anything Man creates, deals in, or institutionalizes.

Your beef is with the crooked timber of humanity, not with religion - and religion, despite its flaws, is one of the few things that actually mitigates some of humanity’s worst excesses. Don’t worry, so does Reason, but neither does the job by itself - and their tension is indispensable.

'Crooked timber of humanity…" sounds like the post-Fall state of man described in Genesis 3…

[/quote]

Gee, PRCalDude, I don’t think so. Perhaps tb23 will speak for himself, but I took the allusion as:

I do not think the reviewers have captured Berlin’s thought as well as tb23 has done, but briefly.
Homage to tb23.

Edit:
Found the original, borrowed by Berlin, which fits nicely with the expressed thought, from Kant: “Out of timber so crooked as from that which man is made, nothing entirely straight can be built.” ( Idee zu einer allgemeinen gesichte in weltburgerlicher absicht, 1784, if you please.)

160

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I see the typical Atheist as being as devoted to there being no God as most fundamentalist Christians are that there is a God. I feel if there is a God he is going to expect me to question his existence. And being that devoted is my definition of religion.[/quote]

…i’d wager that the existence of god only playes a part in the atheists life when he or she is confronted with a religion’s looney member. Other than that, at least for me, whether or not god exists is in everyday life irrelevant and a non-issue…

161

[quote]lixy wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I see Atheism as being as much of a religion as any;

You shouldn’t.

Atheism is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps is a hobby.[/quote]

I’m not entirely buying that, or actually I am but not it’s implications. Atheism is not a religion, granted, but the relation between some atheists and religion is a different matter. I mean, do you know atheists who have an urge to tell stamp collectors that they have a primitive hunter-gatherers mind?