[quote]Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes” [/quote]
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.[/quote]
Ha, I knew this thread would bring you out.
Welcome, Lonnie.
Seen the movie?
I thought it was OK. I liked Mahr back in the comedy central days, even at first on real time…but he’s down to about 10 quality minutes a show these days.
I was aware of the similarities between Christianity and the early Mediterranean religions…but the Egyptian/Horus stuff was news to me.
Born and raised Catholic. But I got no use for any organized religion. To me, religion is just the earliest form of politics. There might be some omnipotent singularity…but if there is I just don’t see it being concerned with us…I’ve read there are as many stars in the sky as there are grains of sand on the earth…this was from a physicist…the universe is so massive I just don’t see any god being all that concerned about us.
But if you are a Christian…and want to read a quality book that tries to unify Christian theology with modern science check out The Omega Point Theory.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Not everyone is Christian or Arab or Hindu or Buddhist or even religious.
Since when was Arabic promoted to a religion?
Must have missed the memo.[/quote]
Yeah, they send it out to ignorant people only I suppose.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.[/quote]
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.[/quote]
Why thank you =)
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.[/quote]
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
[/quote]
“Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat.
We can play with semantics some more if you would like.
One thing that website linked made very clear is that some atheists believe their “lack of belief” makes them “free thinkers”.
One can assume this means they hold the thought that people who do believe in a higher intelligence are not free thinkers or, at some extreme end, are less intelligent/thoughtful than atheists.
You make it seem like there are no atheists who have an extreme DISbelief in God that rivals religion.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
“Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat.
We can play with semantics some more if you would like.
One thing that website linked made very clear is that some atheists believe their “lack of belief” makes them “free thinkers”.
One can assume this means they hold the thought that people who do believe in a higher intelligence are not free thinkers or, at some extreme end, are less intelligent/thoughtful than atheists.
You make it seem like there are no atheists who have an extreme DISbelief in God that rivals religion.[/quote]
…certainly there are atheists who are as zealous in their atheism as ardent religious believers, i grant you that. There’s just something about believers that makes them unable to grasp the notion that there can be an absence of religious belief in a person. This inability compels them to turn everything into a belief: atheist = disbelief. Your “Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat. is a good example of that. Knowing the earth is a sphere is not the same as believing it isn’t flat. That would be silly…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
“Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat.
We can play with semantics some more if you would like.
One thing that website linked made very clear is that some atheists believe their “lack of belief” makes them “free thinkers”.
One can assume this means they hold the thought that people who do believe in a higher intelligence are not free thinkers or, at some extreme end, are less intelligent/thoughtful than atheists.
You make it seem like there are no atheists who have an extreme DISbelief in God that rivals religion.
…certainly there are atheists who are as zealous in their atheism as ardent religious believers, i grant you that. There’s just something about believers that makes them unable to grasp the notion that there can be an absence of religious belief in a person. This inability compels them to turn everything into a belief: atheist = disbelief. Your “Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat. is a good example of that. Knowing the earth is a sphere is not the same as believing it isn’t flat. That would be silly…
[/quote]
I get it now…grand sweeping generalizations are only OK when discussing those who do believe in a higher intelligence. If we are discussing “atheists” we have to make sure to point out every possible variation so as not to offend.
Got ya.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense… [/quote]
Strange that this “general misconception” is found in every reference.
Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings… a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for [reasons that depend] on how God is being conceived.
Goes to show what the so-called experts at Encyclopædia Britannica know. Thank God (yes, I said it!) you’re here to set the record straight.
[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I wasn’t aware that many of the mythological aspects of Christ were taken from previous religions (being born in/around December, born of a virgin, resurrected from the dead, performing miracles, resurrecting a man named Lazarus. I think those were the main ones covered).[/quote]
This has been debunked and the only people who continue to bring it up are the ill-informed or outright deceitful.
I haven’t seen the movie and never will, unless it’s done clockwork orange style with my eyelids held open. Picking out man’s faults does not require any special knowledge or intellect, and in this case it is biased in the wrong direction for me to enjoy the comedy aspect of it.
[quote]lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
Strange that this “general misconception” is found in every reference.
Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings… a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for [reasons that depend] on how God is being conceived.
Goes to show what the so-called experts at Encyclopædia Britannica know. Thank God (yes, I said it!) you’re here to set the record straight.[/quote]
…that quote does not mention an atheist entertaining an active disbelief about your precious god. Thanks for making my point even clearer…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
Strange that this “general misconception” is found in every reference.
Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings… a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for [reasons that depend] on how God is being conceived.
Goes to show what the so-called experts at Encyclopædia Britannica know. Thank God (yes, I said it!) you’re here to set the record straight.
…that quote does not mention an atheist entertaining an active disbelief about your precious god. Thanks for making my point even clearer…
[/quote]
What exactly do you think “denial” means?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
“Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat.
We can play with semantics some more if you would like.
One thing that website linked made very clear is that some atheists believe their “lack of belief” makes them “free thinkers”.
One can assume this means they hold the thought that people who do believe in a higher intelligence are not free thinkers or, at some extreme end, are less intelligent/thoughtful than atheists.
You make it seem like there are no atheists who have an extreme DISbelief in God that rivals religion.
…certainly there are atheists who are as zealous in their atheism as ardent religious believers, i grant you that. There’s just something about believers that makes them unable to grasp the notion that there can be an absence of religious belief in a person. This inability compels them to turn everything into a belief: atheist = disbelief. Your “Lacking the belief” that the earth is flat is the same as believing it isn’t flat. is a good example of that. Knowing the earth is a sphere is not the same as believing it isn’t flat. That would be silly…
I get it now…grand sweeping generalizations are only OK when discussing those who do believe in a higher intelligence. If we are discussing “atheists” we have to make sure to point out every possible variation so as not to offend.
Got ya.[/quote]
…why, every christian who commits a crime in the name of his god is not a ‘real’ christian. The same goes for every muslim suicide bomber; he’s not a ‘true’ muslim. Hence, an atheist who has an active disbelief that god does not exist is not a real atheist, but a mere believer in disguise…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ephrem wrote:
lixy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
“There are no atheists in foxholes”
There are PLENTY of military personnel and officers who lack belief in God.
That quote isn’t referencing whether atheists exist or not in the military. Also, that website you linked is AMAZING. How does being an atheist make one a “free thinker”? Someone firm in their belief that there is no higher intelligence in the entire universe beyond human potential isn’t doing any more “free” thinking outside of that possibility.
If anything, agnostics would earn that title.
…it’s a general misconception that an atheist has an active belief that [a] god does not exist. Atheists lack the belief that god exists, nothing more. Believing in a negative is nonsense…
Strange that this “general misconception” is found in every reference.
Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings… a more adequate characterization of atheism consists in the more complex claim that to be an atheist is to be someone who rejects belief in God for [reasons that depend] on how God is being conceived.
Goes to show what the so-called experts at Encyclopædia Britannica know. Thank God (yes, I said it!) you’re here to set the record straight.
…that quote does not mention an atheist entertaining an active disbelief about your precious god. Thanks for making my point even clearer…
What exactly do you think “denial” means?[/quote]
…“denial” is equal to “disbelief”? Like when i deny that the earth is flat, i actually believe it isn’t flat? I have no problem denying that the Abrahamic god exists, but that doesn’t mean i believe that god doesn’t exist, it simply means that if you apply the definition of what we think god means to the biblical god, that god fails to be anything like a real god…
…if anything, the biblical god may very well be an extraterrestrial megalomaniac playing a fucked up game with genetically engineered toys he, very likely, lost interest in playing a long time ago. In any case, it’s all irrelevant and therefore moot…
…the question whether god exists can’t be answered, but what we have to deal with are the actions of those who do believe. Actions believers justify by pointing at their holy books and their sacred beliefs, the very actions Bill Maher made this movie about; it’s stupidity and our ultimate downfall…
[quote]Bondslave wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I wasn’t aware that many of the mythological aspects of Christ were taken from previous religions (being born in/around December, born of a virgin, resurrected from the dead, performing miracles, resurrecting a man named Lazarus. I think those were the main ones covered).
This has been debunked and the only people who continue to bring it up are the ill-informed or outright deceitful.
I haven’t seen the movie and never will, unless it’s done clockwork orange style with my eyelids held open. Picking out man’s faults does not require any special knowledge or intellect, and in this case it is biased in the wrong direction for me to enjoy the comedy aspect of it.
[/quote]
Please provide sources then.
I’m gonna do some searching myself to see if I can find more on this.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Not everyone is Christian or Arab or Hindu or Buddhist or even religious.
Since when was Arabic promoted to a religion?
Must have missed the memo.[/quote]
Whoops. I meant Muslim. I should really stop watching TV and posting.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…“denial” is equal to “disbelief”? [/quote]
Are we really playing this game?
[quote]
de-ni-al
?noun
- an assertion that something said, believed, alleged, etc., is false: Despite his denials, we knew he had taken the purse. The politician issued a denial of his opponent’s charges.
- refusal to believe a doctrine, theory, or the like.
- disbelief in the existence or reality of a thing.
- the refusal to satisfy a claim, request, desire, etc., or the refusal of a person making it.
- refusal to recognize or acknowledge; a disowning or disavowal: the traitor’s denial of his country; Peter’s denial of Christ. [/quote]
So when you claim this does not equal an “active disbelief”, you are indeed wrong.
I haven’t seen the movie, but daily interaction with the world shows me that PEOPLE IN GENERAL do dumb things.
I am not sure why anyone with a working mind would think this stops in the realm of religion. Likewise, accusing the religion itself in all cases because dumb people exist is wrong unless the religion itself (in texts) promoted that behavior.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I haven’t seen the movie, but daily interaction with the world shows me that PEOPLE IN GENERAL do dumb things.
I am not sure why anyone with a working mind would think this stops in the realm of religion. Likewise, accusing the religion itself in all cases because dumb people exist is wrong unless the religion itself (in texts) promoted that behavior.
[/quote]
Good point.
But certain religions do promote violence, even though they claim to be peaceful (at least, this is what I have read in research).
The big thing for me is inconsistency in texts of “holy” books. If people want to follow their religious beliefs that is absoutely fine, but don’t bloody cherry pick what you like out of the book.
If religion was completely non-violent, even against it, well that would be another story - but I don’t want to see this planet destroyed because some idiot set off an A-bomb because someone else didn’t subscribe to their beliefs.