Religious Controversies: The Right Religion

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe�??�?�¢??s people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, �??�?�¢??I belong to Paul,�??�?�¢?? or �??�?�¢??I belong to Apollos,�??�?�¢?? or �??�?�¢??I belong to Peter,�??�?�¢?? or �??�?�¢??I belong to Christ.�??�?�¢?? Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?�??�?�¢??

I provide this for evidence that the Catholic Church is the true Church. ;)[/quote]
And the LDS folks and JW’s (and numerous others) claim it as evidence that theirs is. I claim it as the same type of ideal goal as the many scriptural calls not to sin. Totally valid commands that will not be perfectly realized until he returns. Also this is a specific schism caused by falsely exalting men like Rome does.[/quote]

Well, I don’t think that is the case because Rome always does things through Christ. None of her powers or deeds are anything but through or in Christ.[/quote]Lemme make clear that I’m not putting Rome in quite the same category as the Mormons or JW’s. I do believe in the end you worship the one true God of the bible which is rather important =] Of course I don’t buy their claims of being the one true church either (though the JW’s will shoot themselves before using the word “church”) or in their case, of having anything to do with the gospel of Christ at all. However they will say they do everything through Christ too though the LDS church has plenty of their own extra biblical “revelation” like Rome does.

Sola Scriptura for me thanks. You can put Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, CMA, and dozens of other orthodox denominations in a room and they will disagree on some stuff, but will all pray together and call each other brethren because they arrive at the same conclusions on the very essentials because the bible is unmistakably clear on those.
[/quote]

I hope you wouldn’t put the Catholic Church in with those, as we are nothing like them. JW hate us after all. The difference between Rome’s revelations and the LDS is that LDS revelations are private revelations, the Rome’s were by theologians in submission under Bishops and councils.

I still do not grasp Sola Scripture, maybe it’s because I have not read it much, but it’s strange that a Doctrine would say only the Bible, but the Bible never speaks on it. When you say Orthodox, you mean the Patriarch Church’s like the Greek Orthodox and the Catholic Church?

One of the things I don’t like about most Protestants, is that even though I call them brothers, they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me.

303

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me.

304

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me. [/quote]

So surprising you said it twice.

305

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me. [/quote]

So surprising you said it twice.[/quote]

Fer sher. Any particular denomination you feel that holds the majority on this sentiment?

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[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me. [/quote]

So surprising you said it twice.[/quote]

Fer sher. Any particular denomination you feel that holds the majority on this sentiment?[/quote]

Any of them that fashion themselves as following a certain person’s theology, Calvin, Luther, &c. I rarely talk about my theology as people recognize it and immediately start in with the whore of Babylon crap.

The funny thing is, that I studied both Luther and Calvin, and I tell you what, the Catholic Church is closer to those men’s theologies than the now-a-day Protestants. I even did an experiment with an old acquaintance of mine, I asked him what he thought about infant baptism, and he told me to knock off that heretical crap, and then I quoted John Calvin (without saying it was him) and he told me that is just a bunch of crap the Catholic Church wrote. I then pointed out in a book of John Calvin’s works that it was in fact John Calvin (someone he held as a hero) who’s words I was repeating. I later asked him if the Church had any authority, and he said no, then I quote Calvin again and pointed out that Calvin believed that Rome didn’t have authority, but he did believe that Bishops (himself) had power. He believed in the real presence of the Eucharist. However, heaven forbid I believe these things or I’m being Idolatrous and heretical.

I’d say that it is mostly the descendants of Calvinism who tell me I need to get re-baptized.

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me. [/quote]

So surprising you said it twice.[/quote]

Fer sher. Any particular denomination you feel that holds the majority on this sentiment?[/quote]

Any of them that fashion themselves as following a certain person’s theology, Calvin, Luther, &c. I rarely talk about my theology as people recognize it and immediately start in with the whore of Babylon crap.

The funny thing is, that I studied both Luther and Calvin, and I tell you what, the Catholic Church is closer to those men’s theologies than the now-a-day Protestants. I even did an experiment with an old acquaintance of mine, I asked him what he thought about infant baptism, and he told me to knock off that heretical crap, and then I quoted John Calvin (without saying it was him) and he told me that is just a bunch of crap the Catholic Church wrote. I then pointed out in a book of John Calvin’s works that it was in fact John Calvin (someone he held as a hero) who’s words I was repeating. I later asked him if the Church had any authority, and he said no, then I quote Calvin again and pointed out that Calvin believed that Rome didn’t have authority, but he did believe that Bishops (himself) had power. He believed in the real presence of the Eucharist. However, heaven forbid I believe these things or I’m being Idolatrous and heretical.

I’d say that it is mostly the descendants of Calvinism who tell me I need to get re-baptized.[/quote]
Calvin definitely believed in infant baptism as do most modern Presbyterians and other Calvinist denominations. However he DID NOT believe in the real presence of the eucharist though he did believe sacramental power was efficaciously dispensed in baptism and the Lord’s supper. He also did not mean anything like Rome means when discussing the authority of church officers.

If either Calvin or Luther (or some others) could have found a button that would have expunged the papacy from the earth they would have beaten each other senseless over who got to push it. It’s a good thing I wasn’t alive then because then it would have been 3 of us. I do not believe the Roman Catholic church has anything to do with Jesus Christ and I further believe it is evil. I yet further still believe that only by the grace of the true gospel wrenched back out of Rome, especially by Calvin, can catholics be saved in their catholicism. In other words catholics I consider brothers are such in very much spite of and in no way because of the Roman church.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

-they won’t call me brother, until I’m “rebaptized.”[/quote]

This statement is surprising to me. [/quote]

So surprising you said it twice.[/quote]

Fer sher. Any particular denomination you feel that holds the majority on this sentiment?[/quote]

Any of them that fashion themselves as following a certain person’s theology, Calvin, Luther, &c. I rarely talk about my theology as people recognize it and immediately start in with the whore of Babylon crap.

The funny thing is, that I studied both Luther and Calvin, and I tell you what, the Catholic Church is closer to those men’s theologies than the now-a-day Protestants. I even did an experiment with an old acquaintance of mine, I asked him what he thought about infant baptism, and he told me to knock off that heretical crap, and then I quoted John Calvin (without saying it was him) and he told me that is just a bunch of crap the Catholic Church wrote. I then pointed out in a book of John Calvin’s works that it was in fact John Calvin (someone he held as a hero) who’s words I was repeating. I later asked him if the Church had any authority, and he said no, then I quote Calvin again and pointed out that Calvin believed that Rome didn’t have authority, but he did believe that Bishops (himself) had power. He believed in the real presence of the Eucharist. However, heaven forbid I believe these things or I’m being Idolatrous and heretical.

I’d say that it is mostly the descendants of Calvinism who tell me I need to get re-baptized.[/quote]
Calvin definitely believed in infant baptism as do most modern Presbyterians and other Calvinist denominations. However he DID NOT believe in the real presence of the eucharist though he did believe sacramental power was efficaciously dispensed in baptism and the Lord’s supper. He also did not mean anything like Rome means when discussing the authority of church officers.

If either Calvin or Luther (or some others) could have found a button that would have expunged the papacy from the earth they would have beaten each other senseless over who got to push it. It’s a good thing I wasn’t alive then because then it would have been 3 of us. I do not believe the Roman Catholic church has anything to do with Jesus Christ and I further believe it is evil. I yet further still believe that only by the grace of the true gospel wrenched back out of Rome, especially by Calvin, can catholics be saved in their catholicism. In other words catholics I consider brothers are such in very much spite of and in no way because of the Roman church.[/quote]

I think the hate on the Roman Catholic Church, is as my little cousin from Spain once said, hater status.

We are in fact that only Christian Church that has held the same status since Peter and Paul. Doesn’t matter what you say about Orthodox Churches because they have split, the Catholic Church has not split, we are still under the Christ and under the Papacy, meaning we believe all the same thing. All other Denominations cannot claim that, and usually they follow men instead of what the original Apostles and councils taught.

I mean if you really wanted to be like the Early Church, you’d put away your Bible. You’d go to Church, You’d take the message from the Apostles that they told about the Jesus and how to be a Christian and what to do to be a Christian, and you’d listen to them. You didn’t have a Bible, and for a millenium it was this way as you didn’t have a printing press to even read a Bible except the one that was in the Church left there for those that could actually read.

On Calvin and Evangelicals, Evangelicals are used to finding assurance in their “personal relationship with Christ,” and not through membership in any Church or participation in any ritual. Calvin, however, taught that the Eucharist provides “undoubted assurance of eternal life.” (Institutes 4.17.32.) And while Calvin stopped short of the Catholic, or even the Lutheran, understanding of the Eucharist, he still retained a doctrine of the Real Presence. He taught that the Eucharist provides a “true and substantial partaking of the body and blood of the Lord” and he rejected the notion that communicants receive “the Spirit only, omitting flesh and blood.”(Institutes 4.17.17; 4.17.19.)

Calvin understood baptism in much the same way. He never taught the Evangelical doctrine that one is “born again” through personal conversion. Instead, he associated regeneration with baptism and taught that to neglect baptism was to refuse salvation. He also allowed no diversity over the manner of its reception. Anabaptists in Geneva (those who practiced adult baptism) were jailed and forced to repent. Calvin taught that Anabaptists, by refusing the sacrament to their children, had placed themselves outside the faith.

Calvin once persuaded an Anabaptist named Herman to enter the Reformed Church. His description of the event leaves no doubt about the difference between Calvin and the modern Evangelical. Calvin wrote:

“Herman has, if I am not mistaken, in good faith returned to the fellowship of the Church. He has confessed that outside the Church there is no salvation, and that the true Church is with us. Therefore, it was defection when he belonged to a sect separated from it.” (Letters of John Calvin, trans. M. Gilchrist, ed. J.Bonnet, New York: Burt Franklin, 1972, I: 110-111.)

And on excommunication, Calvin repeatedly taught that the excommunicated were “estranged from the Church, and thus, from Christ.” (Institutes 4.12.9.)

309

Please read 4:17:33 of the Institutes and read 34 and any other sections for yourself you plan to quote instead of somebody’s selective proof texting. Trust me. You do not understand John Calvin at all. Also, Calvin is not the “vicar of Christ”. I am free to fire some synapses of my own and disagree with him sometimes. Which leads me to the fact that the JW’s have much more uniform belief among their members than Rome does so if that proves anything then they are God’s true organization.

Additionally, I have actually come your way in the last 20 years and I am really praying that wishful thinking isn’t getting the best of me. There was a time when I regarded communion with Rome as absolutely ipso facto communion with Satan. I have revised this position to where I leave devout catholics to what I really hope is the saving grace of the gospel under all the layers of ugly barnacles of human invention Rome has attached to it’s hull.

This had nothing to do with anyone close to me I didn’t want to be damned. There were no such persons. I am no hater Brother Chris. I really want to believe as many people as I possibly can are right with the Lord and going to heaven. I do, Including you and Katz and Sloth and Pat (I didn’t exclude anybody on purpose). Catholicism presents a unique situation for me because I do hate IT, but it tears my heart out coming against it with you guys. I do not enjoy it one bit, but I cannot help myself. I see the stuff you guys post and I wind up with my head in my hands wishing I could reach through my monitor, grab you by the shirt and shake you. It gives me the creeps.

310

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Please read 4:17:33 of the Institutes and read 34 and any other sections for yourself you plan to quote instead of somebody’s selective proof texting. Trust me. You do not understand John Calvin at all. Also, Calvin is not the “vicar of Christ”. I am free to fire some synapses of my own and disagree with him sometimes. Which leads me to the fact that the JW’s have much more uniform belief among their members than Rome does so if that proves anything then they are God’s true organization.
[/quote]

Yeah, except they change core beliefs every decade or so.

If you hate the Catholic Church so much, I think you might want to review your beliefs, because so far I just keep hearing that you hate them, and without reason. So far I have pointed out that everything we do is through or in Christ. Our Authority is from God, our Baptism is in Him, our councils are in Christ, our Eucharist is of Him, our Sacraments are in Him, our sacramentals point towards Him, our confessions are to Him, where our Priests stand in place of Him, through the power of Him. Everything and anything we do is done through Him. Discernment or making choices for a Catholic are through Him, as a Catholic not one step in this life is taught to be of your own accord. Every ability that a human has is because of Him, and anything else is unacceptable. And as a Catholic if you do not have the fundamentals of having Faith in Him, Hope in Him, and Charity in Him, then you are a mere babe.

So the Gospel saves you, not Jesus? Because that’s where all my grace comes from.

I wish you wouldn’t brother, because since I have joined the Catholic Church I have given up. No longer do I do anything on my own. Secular or religious. Everything is one hundred percent because of God, and when I decide to do something without the Holy Spirit guiding me, it shows. And my faith and hope have become deeper. I feel fulfilled now, not necessarily happy, but joyful.

I used to just go to Church, and usually fall asleep in the back pew, I could argue a mile a minute about what Christians should do, but really most of it I didn’t even do because all I really needed at the end of the day was a “personal relationship with Jesus.” However, you wouldn’t have noticed I had one, and I sure didn’t act like it. I wouldn’t give a quarter to my brother, but I’d sure tell him he needed a personal relationship with Jesus, because all I, I, I needed was a personal relationship with Jesus." I forgot that Jesus didn’t die for me to be selfish, Jesus died so I could service His people. Jesus did not die so I could interpret the Bible how I wanted to, He died, so I could have faith in Him, not in a book. Jesus died not for me so I could be sure that I would go to Heaven because of something I follow from a book, but so I could have Hope in Him that his Sacrifice would save me.

I sure didn’t feel whole on the inside either, I did all kinds of bad stuff. Justified everything because I had a relationship with Jesus. Then I tried out Catholicism after I studied it for a long time. Now, I wake up at 5:00 so I make sure I can get the gym, but before I go I pray the office of the hours, and after working out and eating, I go to adoration to mediate, contemplate, pray and surrender myself to God for the day, then morning prayer, I eat again, and to daily mass, then to work and pray constantly, finish up work and go to adoration to mediate and thank God for his gifts for the day until they close the church, come back home, eat, and go to sleep.

I am joining the Knights of Columbus, and I am far more charitable than I used to since I joined the Catholic Church. Soup kitchens, retreats, Church up keep, tithing, CRS, missions, pet shelters, widow and orphan financial counseling, homeless shelters, homeless and low income counseling, counseling, &c. I mean maybe 1% of these things were available to me in all 7 Churches I attended when I was outside the Catholic Church. Now, the Newman Center (a center not a Church) on my college campus has all these plus about half a dozen other things. And that is just Charity, not including our social, out reach, spiritual counseling ministries for the members.

Nothing about the Catholic Church goes against the Bible. Its people? Yes, just like almost every person that lived has gone against the Bible and the Catholic Church. However, we try to be perfect, through Him.

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It’s not possible for me to do justice to more than one of you guys at a time like this and I owe Pat a response in the other thread. This is exactly why I put off getting into it with you for so long. There are only so many hours in the day. There is so much wrong with this last post starting right at the first sentence. I will do my best as mere mortal man juggling way too many things at once as it is. I do take responsibility as well though because I do stir this up too.

EDIT: Oops, I now see that the fist sentence was about the JW’s, sorry. Still though. They haven’t changed a core belief in quite a while.

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Just because God is everywhere, does not mean that everything is for God, there are things that are clearly against God and His will. Like the Devil. There is absence of God, evil is the direct absence of God. God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent, however humans have freewill, and if they freely choose to live in evil, then they freely choose to push God away. This does not mean He is not Omnipresent or potent.[/quote]

[/quote]

I think you need to go back and learn what omnipresent and omnipotent means before we talk again, because you use is more than a little off.[/quote]

A bit condescending there, but it does not matter.
I am speaking of God’s omnipresence/omnipotence.
This is an absolute idea. Some would say its a TRUTH.
And words of TRUTH carry their own weight.

Omnipresence to me means everywhere in the vast Universe, not just the Catholic Church. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I get the impression the Catholics think God’s omnipresence is confined to the Catholic Church and everyone else outside of the Catholic Church is in some kind of no mans land. That is a very limited and small view of God and is not Omnipresence/Omnipotence.

Let’s take a lofty 30,000 ft. above sea level view for a moment:
You’re one with God’s vast and glorious Universe. You look below/above/all around and it’s all part of the one perfect view. Heaven on Earth. And Everyone on Earth is part of It.
(Your hair is probably starting to stand up on your neck about now because any good Catholic can’t handle that thought)

That’s when our view gets lower. We see that only part of Heaven is on Earth, and part of it is perceived to be Hell. We think some people are ‘wrong’ and others are ‘right’. Then, we might even land in the bushes and get all tangled up an endless rhetoric of all the worlds wrongs and rights, good vs. evil, and Bible-thumping I told-you-so’s… The more we judge and criticize others the more we create our own Hell because we are seeing such wrongness in Gods world.

So what happened to the Omnipresence and Omnipotence? What if God created us in His image like the Bible says (pretend this includes everyone for a moment - I know its hard). And with the Omnipresence/Omnipotence thing going, then everyone’s choices are God-driven.

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[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

A bit condescending there, but it does not matter.
I am speaking of God’s omnipresence/omnipotence.
This is an absolute idea. Some would say its a TRUTH.
And words of TRUTH carry their own weight.
[/quote]

Not condescending, just that you need to go read about it more. Seems like you read a description on it, then applied is haphazardly that is all. As by your example, correct me if I am wrong, that because a Satanic cult is a religion, you can go to Heaven, by being in this cult, because all religions lead to God.

Yes, I believe that God is omnipresent and omnipotent. However, you are misapplying them.

Yes, you are mistaken. I read your paragraph here, and your knowledge is severely limited on what the Catholic Church teaches and believes. I’ll try to do my best to explain it, but just so everyone knows. That I’m not an authority, I get this from the Catholic Church, and if I’m wrong and not representing a issue correctly as the Catholic Church teaches, that is my fault and I’ll correct it where I see it.

You are mistaking several different dogmas as one teaching about the same thing. Freewill, salvation, and Omnipresence/Omnipotence.

Yes, God is everywhere. God is omnipresent. That is one dogma.

There is another dogma, dogma about salvation. There is no salvation outside the Church, now this is not a hard and fast rule as is the above dogma and other dogmas, there is a little tiny itty bitty rule off in left field that makes this not a hard and fast rule. If of no fault of your own you are ignorant of the Catholic Church being the true Church (this probably includes a lot of Protestants, after all they are our Brothers in baptism), then in fact you are innocent. However, there is more to this, but for the purpose this will do. This has a little to do with God’s omnipresence, that someone outside of the Church and of no fault of their own do not know the Catholic Church is the truth, then by the grace and mercy of God, they can be saved.

Now the dogma of freewill, which is a little vague to me, but I have a semi-grasp on it at the moment. Now, not everyone is for God, not everything is for God’s will. That does not mean that it is not used by God. This has nothing to do with Omnipresence, this is about free will. The Devil is directly against God’s will, his minions are against God’s will. Certain people in this world are against God’s will. That does not mean that God does not use them for his plan and will.

Example, the Pharaoh of Egypt, he had a hard heart. He didn’t listen to God, ten plagues it was that God threw at him? Well, he was actually an serious part of God’s plan. It taught the Jews several things, he exemplified prophecies, &c. And there are things like Sodom and Gomorrah. So bad that God destroyed them, they had religion, so did the Pharaoh, that doesn’t mean they were saved. Same with those that worshiped Ba’al.

I’m going to ignore this as, it’s a non sequitor, and bull shit. Tell me why a good Catholics wouldn’t be able to handle this thought? Catholics would love if everyone is saved and if it was Heaven on Earth, even our biggest Prayer talks about it!

Our Father, who art in Heaven,
Hollowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come, thy Will be down,
On EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Sorry, I’m not following here. Are you telling me to be heretical, because you believe in moral relativism or something? Some people are wrong. That is a fact, if truth is absolute, and people have one answer and another has another answer, it would mean that one is right and one is wrong. And we would not be fulfilling our responsibility if we didn’t point this out to your brothers.

Everyone is called to pull their brothers aside and correct their behavior, out of love and charity. So, because you are afraid of having a dismal view of people on earth you’ll just go around ignorant and assume everyone is alright? Jesus said that some will come to him saying Lord, lord and he will caste them away because he never knew them.

I’m glad I had supper before I answered this last question. As your little condescending statement is ignorant, ad hominem, non sequitor and begs the question if you actually know anything about the Catholic Church, as well as shows that you lack the rationality to actually talk about the subject respectfully. And I am tempted to ignore you because of your disrespectful behavior and ignorance.

People have free will, either you choose God or you do not choose God. So that would mean their choices may not be God-driven. If someone shots a little girl, are you saying that God wanted that little girl to be shot?

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No, I don’t pretend to be a serious Catholic Scholar and it’s unlikely I ever will be.
But, I have sought and found great solace in some Catholic Churches at the lowest points in my life. I LOVE to learn about other religions and philosophies and I always seem to gain something valuable from each. And in many respects, they all seem to say the same thing in different ways. But, I do get disappointed that the Catholics seem particulary intolerant and overly dogmatized, not to mention their claim of possessing the singular way to salvation or enlightenment. It certainly seems to dismiss God’s movement through the rest of the human population on the planet.

I don’t believe in the Devil, at least not outside of our own vain imaginings.
I think we can draw unwanted experiences to ourselves that way. And the more we think about ‘wrongness’ or evil, the more we will see and experience it.

As for a girl getting shot, or cancer, or terrorism. . . . I can offer no answers except there are reasons for everything…and I’ve got to trust that God is in control and the reasons are for an ultimate good. These terrible experiences are usually followed by great love, compassion, humility, charity and ultimately, comfort and peace. Perhaps these would not be experienced without the tragedies. Perhaps they are necessary for our growth into greater good.

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[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
No, I don’t pretend to be a serious Catholic Scholar and it’s unlikely I ever will be.
But, I have sought and found great solace in some Catholic Churches at the lowest points in my life. I LOVE to learn about other religions and philosophies and I always seem to gain something valuable from each. And in many respects, they all seem to say the same thing in different ways. But, I do get disappointed that the Catholics seem particulary intolerant and overly dogmatized, not to mention their claim of possessing the singular way to salvation or enlightenment. It certainly seems to dismiss God’s movement through the rest of the human population on the planet.
[/quote]

We are intolerant of sin, sin goes against God. Kind of makes sense.

However we are commanded to love, so we call out our brothers and sisters because we love them. Yes, we are overly “dogmatized” because we hold dogma’s to be absolute truths. That is like telling me, you shouldn’t worry about people addressing you by your name, because some people might not think that is your name. Doesn’t matter what people think, my name’s Chris, people will call me Chris. Not something else. That is the truth. My name has and always will be Chris.

It is not only our claim, it is the Truth. The office of Peter hold’s the keys to heaven. It does not dismiss it, God gave the Catholic Church this authority. We did not choose it, it is God’s will. Yes, everyone is given the chance to be saved, that doesn’t mean everyone will be. And, even the Catholic Church explains that even though we are the One Church, there are other ways possible to be saved.

The Devil is a real thing, it is in the Bible. I think I get you, this is New Age stuff.

[quote]
As for a girl getting shot, or cancer, or terrorism. . . . I can offer no answers except there are reasons for everything…and I’ve got to trust that God is in control and the reasons are for an ultimate good. These terrible experiences are usually followed by great love, compassion, humility, charity and ultimately, comfort and peace. Perhaps these would not be experienced without the tragedies. Perhaps they are necessary for our growth into greater good. [/quote]

Yes it may be for the ultimate good, but that does not mean everything is God-driven. Some things are for evil, this is dogma, it is in the Bible.

316

I don’t believe in the devil BECAUSE of God’s Omnipotence.

A person cannot agree with both at the same time because the two cannot exist at the same time…it’s an oxymoron.

If you want to believe in the devil and sin, then that’s your choice (for whatever reason).
Just know you are choosing against God’s Omnipotence and Omnipresence…in that moment.

A person is either standing with/perceiving God(Good) OR standing with and seeing division, sin, and other devilatudes…moment by moment.

317

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t believe in the devil BECAUSE of God’s Omnipotence.

A person cannot agree with both at the same time because the two cannot exist at the same time…it’s an oxymoron.

If you want to believe in the devil and sin, then that’s your choice (for whatever reason).
Just know you are choosing against God’s Omnipotence and Omnipresence…in that moment.

A person is either standing with/perceiving God(Good) OR standing with and seeing division, sin, and other devilatudes…moment by moment.[/quote]You are yet another living breathing object lesson in why men cannot be left to themselves to seek God.

318

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t believe in the devil BECAUSE of God’s Omnipotence.

A person cannot agree with both at the same time because the two cannot exist at the same time…it’s an oxymoron.
[/quote]

So you are saying God did not create the Devil? Are you saying that God cannot do something? GOD CANNOT DO SOMETHING? So obviously you do not think he omnipotent.

[quote]
If you want to believe in the devil and sin, then that’s your choice (for whatever reason).
Just know you are choosing against God’s Omnipotence and Omnipresence…in that moment.

A person is either standing with/perceiving God(Good) OR standing with and seeing division, sin, and other devilatudes…moment by moment.[/quote]

You are talking about dualism, and that is not what I am talking about. You are saying God cannot create the Devil. I think you need to check yourself.

319

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t believe in the devil BECAUSE of God’s Omnipotence.

A person cannot agree with both at the same time because the two cannot exist at the same time…it’s an oxymoron.

If you want to believe in the devil and sin, then that’s your choice (for whatever reason).
Just know you are choosing against God’s Omnipotence and Omnipresence…in that moment.

A person is either standing with/perceiving God(Good) OR standing with and seeing division, sin, and other devilatudes…moment by moment.[/quote]You are yet another living breathing object lesson in why men cannot be left to themselves to seek God.
[/quote]

I recommend he go to the Catholic Church and listen to the Authority guided by the Holy Ghost.

320

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t believe in the devil BECAUSE of God’s Omnipotence.

A person cannot agree with both at the same time because the two cannot exist at the same time…it’s an oxymoron.

If you want to believe in the devil and sin, then that’s your choice (for whatever reason).
Just know you are choosing against God’s Omnipotence and Omnipresence…in that moment.

A person is either standing with/perceiving God(Good) OR standing with and seeing division, sin, and other devilatudes…moment by moment.[/quote]You are yet another living breathing object lesson in why men cannot be left to themselves to seek God.
[/quote]

I recommend he go to the Catholic Church and listen to the Authority guided by the Holy Ghost.[/quote]WADDA SHOCK!!! LOL!!!
I recommend he fall on his face where he stands and beg forgiveness of the most high God for his insolent presumption, recognizing his utterly indefensible helplessness before the Judge of the universe and own Christ alone as His righteousness.

If anybody ever wanted the most concise statement of the most foundational difference between Rome and Geneva this was just it.