Religious Belief is Human Nature?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I would go even further, by arguing that curiosity is human nature. We have the desire to understand our world, answer questions, and replace ignorance with knowledge. Why? Because knowledge is power, and people like power.

Religion is one offshoot of man’s need to understand the universe and his place in it. We have speculated, created, asserted, philosophized, and placed faith in a plethora of mystical explanations to satisfy that need.[/quote]WOW, lots more origins required here too =]
[/quote]

You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin.

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[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I would go even further, by arguing that curiosity is human nature. We have the desire to understand our world, answer questions, and replace ignorance with knowledge. Why? Because knowledge is power, and people like power.

Religion is one offshoot of man’s need to understand the universe and his place in it. We have speculated, created, asserted, philosophized, and placed faith in a plethora of mystical explanations to satisfy that need.[/quote]WOW, lots more origins required here too =]
[/quote]

You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]

Religion is not a need to fill a gap. Religion is communication with God, and man needs to be in communion with Him. God is often imitated, but never replaced.

Considering your intense participation in virtually all the religion threads, I get the sense you have this need somewhere deep down in side…Watch out ego, here comes the id…

83

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I would go even further, by arguing that curiosity is human nature. We have the desire to understand our world, answer questions, and replace ignorance with knowledge. Why? Because knowledge is power, and people like power.

Religion is one offshoot of man’s need to understand the universe and his place in it. We have speculated, created, asserted, philosophized, and placed faith in a plethora of mystical explanations to satisfy that need.[/quote]WOW, lots more origins required here too =]
[/quote]

You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]

Religion is not a need to fill a gap. Religion is communication with God, and man needs to be in communion with Him. God is often imitated, but never replaced.

Considering your intense participation in virtually all the religion threads, I get the sense you have this need somewhere deep down in side…Watch out ego, here comes the id…[/quote]

Humans are curious by nature. What makes you think this isn’t true when it comes to the most important questions in our lives?

84

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]Will you knock off the idiotic psychology already? This has literally NOTHING to do with psychology which amounts to one subjective sinner’s analysis of other subjective sinner’s subjectivity.

NOW, LISTEN FOR A MINUTE, HOW do you know__________________. What is the preeminent intellectual framework or principle that is the very first one in your very existence? Not classes or scientific blah blah blah. That is all the result of what I’m asking. Not the thing itself. I keep asking what road you’re on and you keep telling me what cars are on it.

85

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I would go even further, by arguing that curiosity is human nature. We have the desire to understand our world, answer questions, and replace ignorance with knowledge. Why? Because knowledge is power, and people like power.

Religion is one offshoot of man’s need to understand the universe and his place in it. We have speculated, created, asserted, philosophized, and placed faith in a plethora of mystical explanations to satisfy that need.[/quote]WOW, lots more origins required here too =]
[/quote]

You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]

Religion is not a need to fill a gap. Religion is communication with God, and man needs to be in communion with Him. God is often imitated, but never replaced.

Considering your intense participation in virtually all the religion threads, I get the sense you have this need somewhere deep down in side…Watch out ego, here comes the id…[/quote]

Humans are curious by nature. What makes you think this isn’t true when it comes to the most important questions in our lives?[/quote]

I agree it’s true. That’s not the same thing as man’s need for God in their lives. You either have God in your life or you try to replace it with something else, science, booze, sex, drugs, etc. ← Not that I am against those things they just don’t replace God.
When you don’t have God, you have a hole in your heart.

86

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]Will you knock off the idiotic psychology already? This has literally NOTHING to do with psychology which amounts to one subjective sinner’s analysis of other subjective sinner’s subjectivity.

HOW, LISTEN FOR A MINUTE, HOW do you know__________________. What is the preeminent intellectual framework or principle that is the very first one in your very existence? Not classes or scientific blah blah blah. That is all the result of what I’m asking. Not the thing itself. I keep asking what road you’re on and you keep telling me what cars are on it.
[/quote]

Ultimately, it’s impossible to know anything with absolute certainty. I don’t believe a preeminent intellectual framework or principle exists which empowers such knowledge. Everything we believe is based on certain assumptions, and those assumptions (like the true nature of reality) are unprovable.

87

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I would go even further, by arguing that curiosity is human nature. We have the desire to understand our world, answer questions, and replace ignorance with knowledge. Why? Because knowledge is power, and people like power.

Religion is one offshoot of man’s need to understand the universe and his place in it. We have speculated, created, asserted, philosophized, and placed faith in a plethora of mystical explanations to satisfy that need.[/quote]WOW, lots more origins required here too =]
[/quote]

You might enjoy a few psychology classes in motivation, cognitive processing, personality, and development. Just because you don’t understand the research in these areas doesn’t mean they have a supernatural origin. [/quote]

Religion is not a need to fill a gap. Religion is communication with God, and man needs to be in communion with Him. God is often imitated, but never replaced.

Considering your intense participation in virtually all the religion threads, I get the sense you have this need somewhere deep down in side…Watch out ego, here comes the id…[/quote]

Humans are curious by nature. What makes you think this isn’t true when it comes to the most important questions in our lives?[/quote]

I agree it’s true. That’s not the same thing as man’s need for God in their lives. You either have God in your life or you try to replace it with something else, science, booze, sex, drugs, etc. ← Not that I am against those things they just don’t replace God.
When you don’t have God, you have a hole in your heart. [/quote]

I respect your belief that god is necessary for true happiness, but I disagree.

88

[quote]forlife wrote:
Ultimately, it’s impossible to know anything with absolute certainty. I don’t believe a preeminent intellectual framework or principle exists which empowers such knowledge. Everything we believe is based on certain assumptions, and those assumptions (like the true nature of reality) are unprovable.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s the lot of man. No wonder we invented religion, it is not an easy position and I wouldn’t push it on anyone, you have to see it yourself. It includes that I may be wrong even with this assumption, but so far I haven’t seen anything thast would proove otherwise.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
If the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus Christ, takes away His sustaining power for one millisecond, all of creation goes extinct. “Religion” is almost universally man’s insolent attempt to dictate terms of business to an infinite almighty God. Atheism is just as good. [/quote]

Hmmm. I’m interested to hear you say this. I’ve often felt and heard it said by others that if you could ‘magically’ erase all religions, man would remake them overnight.

…Insolence. :slight_smile:

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< No, I think it tricks people into thinking it governs morality or has answers. Centuries wasted looking at a dead end for morality. If it were a true source of morality it wouldn’t change as the years pass. We no longer stone people in civilized culture, and that shift (and others like it) comes from something other than religion.[/quote]Actually it comes from the eternally ordained transition from BC to AD. Old covenant to new. Theocracy to “my kingdom is not of this world”.
[/quote]

So why was BC ever BC? Why not let the good times roll from the beginning?

No disrespect, Tiribulus, just curious on your take.

91

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Ultimately, it’s impossible to know anything with absolute certainty. >>>>[/quote]Very good. In other words, what I’ve been saying all along. Why did it take you so long to say this? [quote]forlife wrote:<<<I don’t believe a preeminent intellectual framework or principle exists which empowers such knowledge. >>>[/quote]I do, as you certainly know. [quote]forlife wrote:<<< Everything we believe is based on certain assumptions, and those assumptions (like the true nature of reality) are unprovable.[/quote]Oh you mean faith? Excellent. BTW, I respect this answer though I doubt you care. Don’t you see my friend. You just told me that you don’t REALLY know anything. I think somebody bearing a striking resemblance to myself and wearing my clothes has been proclaiming this very thing for like months now.

My belief in the non-contingent utterly preeminent God as THE source of absolutely everything not only gives validity and meaning to what I CAN understand, but also gives me derivative knowledge of all that I cannot understand through the indwelling mind of Christ. Yes, by faith just like you, only you explain nothing and God explains everything.

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@ Vires Eternus
I didn’t forget about ya

93

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Ultimately, it’s impossible to know anything with absolute certainty. >>>>[/quote]Very good. In other words, what I’ve been saying all along. Why did it take you so long to say this? [quote]forlife wrote:<<<I don’t believe a preeminent intellectual framework or principle exists which empowers such knowledge. >>>[/quote]I do, as you certainly know. [quote]forlife wrote:<<< Everything we believe is based on certain assumptions, and those assumptions (like the true nature of reality) are unprovable.[/quote]Oh you mean faith? Excellent. BTW, I respect this answer though I doubt you care. Don’t you see my friend. You just told me that you don’t REALLY know anything. I think somebody bearing a striking resemblance to myself and wearing my clothes has been proclaiming this very thing for like months now.

My belief in the non-contingent utterly preeminent God as THE source of absolutely everything not only gives validity and meaning to what I CAN understand, but also gives me derivative knowledge of all that I cannot understand through the indwelling mind of Christ. Yes, by faith just like you, only you explain nothing and God explains everything.
[/quote]

If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?

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[quote]forlife wrote:
If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?[/quote]

Why are you trying to convince religious people to deny their predisposition? I mean, if there’s one side of human nature we can be sure of, it’s religiosity. The op strongly suggests as much.

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I agree that WE know nothing autonomously, that is, in ourselves, independently. NOTHING. And my hat is off to you for finally admitting as much. Sincerely. I contend, as does the apostle Paul, that all of my knowledge AND all of YOUR knowledge is derived from the most high God. Every last particle. I embrace that with joy and rest utterly confident in EVERYTHING. You deny that with scorn and attempt to inject meaning and substance into your life independently and thereby declare with your own lips that such a thing is not logically possible.

The torturous problem of “the one and the many” for instance, is instantly resolved in the triune God I worship. He is the architect of all and all bears His signature. He is Himself “One and many”, hence the very reality we are inextricably pickled in reflects His nature. I was once blind like you are and denied His glory even while it was shining everywhere right in my face. You both can not and will not see this because you are dead to Him in sin just like I was. To you it is more comforting to simply accept that “nothing” is as good as it gets than to surrender to Him who has ALL the answers.

Why? Because you hate Him. You hate the moral authority you KNOW He has over you. You hate the fact that you KNOW you know NOTHING as the backfire of the serpent’s deception of Eve lurks ever present in your mind. “You don’t need God tellin you what fruit to eat and infringing on your ability to reason objectively and make decisions for yourself” to paraphrase. You hate the fact that you are hopelessly enslaved in sin and death, yet passionately love your sin at the same time and I ain’t talkin primarily about homosexuality. I’m referring to the spiritual and intellectual death I’ve been presently discussing. Homosexuality is simply a symptom of that. That’s why I hardly mention it.

The Greeks knew what I’m telling you now and made various valiant, but ultimately futile attempts to fuse reality into some sensible and manageable whole, culminating (sorta) with Aristotle and his “analogies of meaning, thinking and being”. The whole of philosophical history is one long attempt to this day to escape what you have here put forth. That being “ultimately nobody can prove anything”. They have of necessity failed and will continue to fail until Jesus Christ descends from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God.

You will likely write this post off as the further blithering of a hopelessly deluded religious fanatic. (maybe not) Fine. Meanwhile my God reigns and in His name I tell you again, repent, cast yourself on His mercy, believe His gospel and live.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?[/quote]

Why are you trying to convince religious people to deny their predisposition? I mean, if there’s one side of human nature we can be sure of, it’s religiosity. The op strongly suggests as much.[/quote]

I support the right of people to believe whatever they want, and would never legislate against him worshiping whatever god he thinks is real.

97

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?[/quote]

Why are you trying to convince religious people to deny their predisposition? I mean, if there’s one side of human nature we can be sure of, it’s religiosity. The op strongly suggests as much.[/quote]

I support the right of people to believe whatever they want, and would never legislate against him worshiping whatever god he thinks is real.[/quote]

No, no. Why would you WANT him to move away from what is possibly an inherent orientation?

98

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?[/quote]

Why are you trying to convince religious people to deny their predisposition? I mean, if there’s one side of human nature we can be sure of, it’s religiosity. The op strongly suggests as much.[/quote]

I support the right of people to believe whatever they want, and would never legislate against him worshiping whatever god he thinks is real.[/quote]

No, no. Why would you WANT him to move away from what is possibly an inherent orientation?[/quote]

I strongly believe in every man and woman’s right to worship in whatever (reasonable) way they wish. That said, we live in participatory societies in which the convictions of some can have drastic and substantive bearing on the lives of others, many of whom do not necessarily share those convictions. The ways in which we participate are informed by our respective world-views.

For this reason, I hope with intense sincerity that religious superstition is uprooted and eradicated from the human consciousness–because I believe that, regardless of the particular religion or denomination in question, it is at heart predicated upon one or another set of fantastical lies. And I do not want falsities guiding the behavior of my fellow man.

I would not legislate such a sentiment, but I can hope for it and use reason and argument to fight for it all I want.

99

[quote]forlife wrote:
I respect your belief that god is necessary for true happiness, but I disagree.[/quote]

What is necessary to achieve true happiness then? Are you sure you have achieved true happiness? and what is the purpose of continuing with life?

100

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
If you agree with me that we actually know nothing, how do you justify claiming that your god must be real, and refusing to acknowledge that he may not be?[/quote]

Why are you trying to convince religious people to deny their predisposition? I mean, if there’s one side of human nature we can be sure of, it’s religiosity. The op strongly suggests as much.[/quote]

I support the right of people to believe whatever they want, and would never legislate against him worshiping whatever god he thinks is real.[/quote]

No, no. Why would you WANT him to move away from what is possibly an inherent orientation?[/quote]

I strongly believe in every man and woman’s right to worship in whatever (reasonable) way they wish. That said, we live in participatory societies in which the convictions of some can have drastic and substantive bearing on the lives of others, many of whom do not necessarily share those convictions. The ways in which we participate are informed by our respective world-views.

For this reason, I hope with intense sincerity that religious superstition is uprooted and eradicated from the human consciousness–because I believe that, regardless of the particular religion or denomination in question, it is at heart predicated upon one or another set of fantastical lies. And I do not want falsities guiding the behavior of my fellow man.

I would not legislate such a sentiment, but I can hope for it and use reason and argument to fight for it all I want.[/quote]

This, although I’m tolerant of religious superstition, as long as it doesn’t impact my life and makes people happy.