Religion, Rights, and Morality

I mean, you get my point, right?

Even if one doesn’t agree with the “contract” argument and wants to bring in ethics or morality, the concept still applies in a Tony Montana kind of way.

“All I have are my word and my balls and I don’t break them for no one.”

You engage in an agreement, you fulfil the terms to the end unless some dumbass renders it void when he decides to blow up a car with kids in it that wasn’t part of the original agreement and then gets his brains splattered all over the window.

Don’t ask me why the window didn’t shatter if the bullet penetrated through his skull. It looked cool. That’s all I give a shit about.

Yeah, I get it. There are a few great reasons not to cheat though.

1 Like

Yeah, but then people can bring up good reasons to cheat.

I think that simplifying it into a simple concept would make things a lot easier and the focus would be on rectifying the issues that would compel one to do so.

EDIT:

In essence, cheating is wrong. That’s it. People have to accept that first and then realize that all the issues they face which would make them do it would still be justifications of a wrongful act. Not accepting this just leads to further complexity and adds to escalation when more complex marital issues are involved.

2 Likes

I certainly wasn’t out looking to get married or anything. I had some long term relationships intermixed with some fling type things. I never really changed my mindset on anything just fell in love with my wife and didn’t want to be with anyone else.

2 Likes

The thought of my wife finding out and thinking about her crying is enough to keep me from doing it.

2 Likes

Yes, the Bible does say that.

I’ve stated elsewhere that I believe adultery and alienation of affection should be criminalized. The third party is an enabler in adultery and possibly consequential wrecking of a family. That is, children can be affected by this damage, and I believe some people don’t even think of children in such discussion. But I’m also someone who thinks, perhaps wrongfully so, that a considerable amount of boomers, Gen Xers, and millenials don’t care about their own children’s well-being, let alone others.

1 Like

If a kid (let’s say below the age of sixteen for standardized reference as some countries have the legal age of purchase set to sixteen) asks you to buy them alcohol, cigarettes or cannabis… Should you? They will get it from someone else regardless, perhaps someone who might expose or offer them harder substances too.

Saying “no” won’t make a difference as to whether they’ll end up acquiring it or not, but saying “no” maintains a firm boundary/indication that you don’t support or condone such behaviour. In the terms of cheating the behaviour you don’t condone is the potential implosion of a relationship, a damaged family etc. In terms of the kids/teens the behaviour you aren’t condoning pertains to activities from youths that may permanently and seriously alter their neurodevelopmental outcome.

My response to both scenarios are rather similar in the way I go about handling the aftermath. Depending on my relationship with the girls partner, perhaps I’d inform the boyfriend of the incident. However typically I’d let it go unchecked as there are far too many consequences that can result from getting involved with drama like this.

For the kids I won’t tell the parents. Too many potential downstream ramifications associated, I’m not here to potentially ruin someone’s life over this. Some authoritarian parents I know have threatened (or actually have) called the cops over cannabis use, shut their child in the house for months on end, subjected them to daily or weekly urine testing etc leading to enormous resentment, self harm/suicide attempts, further, more serious rebellion and the likes.

If this is correct, zoomers might end up being worse.

“Dad, some kid is picking on me at school, what do I do?”
“Hush child, i’m busy! Need to check my Snapchat streaks before I take a picture of my breakfast #avocado. The we can talk.”
“But he kicked sand in my face”
“My god… Cardi B just liked my photo, I have to show your mother!”

I think Criminalization might be a stretch. I think given the prevalence (even if it’s only like 0.2%, though it’s far higher than this) it’d serve to clog up the court systems. Unless one was to subject a cheater to a civil penalty like a fine of 40% of their total income that year… Even then I think it’d be difficult to enforce, people would consistently challenge the fines as people constantly do here with parking tickets and the likes.
.

Then you’d have the false accusations, the process of kids watching mom or dad go to jail. Further problematic elements exist with jailtime and the consequences associated with being in jail for a prolonged period of time. Jail systems in the USA/Aus aren’t like Norway wherein nonviolent offenders/felons have access to a facility that mimics conditions seen in the outside world. Jail is a place where month long bouts of solitary confinement are common, gang affiliation is present, a place where hard drug use and violence is rampant.

Once out, an individuals mentality can be forever altered, employment is tough to come by. Many prior prisoners re-offend (except for countries like Norway that have a relatively pragmatic approach towards criminal justice). I think you’d be creating an epidemic of mass incarceration if you’re advocating for prison sentences.

If advocating for civil penalties, I think it’s difficult to enforce. Though I wouldn’t complain if something like this was passed into law. It’d be particularly awesome if the cheater had to pay said fine to the victim. “Sorry you’ve been subjected to such incontrovertible rejection, but as a bonus… You’re getting 20,000$!”. So I have to deal with my fiancee shattering my trust… But I get to go to Paris!

Finally, if advocating for death I don’t think it can be justified. Even on an “eye for an eye” basis, a family in disarray doesn’t equate to a life being taken. You can still grow up, get a job, meet a nice woman and settle down if you’ve grown up with divorced parents. Statistically outcomes are more negative… But even inadvertently turning someone to drugs or dropping out of high school usually doesn’t lead to imminent death.

Towards children or all significant partners? Once again it’d be very difficult to enforce or prove this. There are laws set up for child neglect, and complete lack of care is covered within these laws. If you don’t physically or emotionally abuse your child but you spend no time with them, hardly feed them (or leave them to fend for themselves), don’t ensure they’re in good health (regular physical assessments from doctor etc) I believe you are liable for criminal prosecution and having the child taken away. This in itself is a bit of a catch 22 scenario. On one hand, life with neglectful parents is awful, on the other hand… Orphanages and foster homes aren’t exactly the equivalent of sunshine and rainbows.

Well, this and other consequences can simply be avoided: don’t do it!

It refers to the person the adulterer has relations with.

False accusations happen for various crimes. A good idea would be to have the false accuser, if found out, pay the penalty for what he or she accused someone of.

1 Like

“don’t do it”

You’re not speaking to a reasonable or kind person here. You are speaking to the type of individual who has no qualms destroying one of the pivotal foundations relationships are built upon. Barring heinous acts of violence, a person like this probably doesn’t care about the homeostasis of emotional status aside from that of their own.

The “just say no” rhetoric unfortunately appears to fail for the majority of public policies barring extreme aberrations like murder, rape and the likes.

Let’s say the rate of adultery within marriage is 5% in the USA. Sending 5% of US adults to prison where many re-emerge as hardened criminals would be very problematic for society.

Perhaps you could create a separate wing/facility akin to the way Norway conducts criminal justice for certain offences that harbours those guilty of adultery

Prison doesn’t seem to serve as a reasonable deterrent for many. I think sending all guilty if adultery to a place where they can intermingle with people who sell fentanyl to high school kids, rapists, bank robbers and murders alike seems like a recipie for disaster.

I’d be in favour of “pay a large civil penalty towards the victim”. Stemming from both parties involved with adultery. Serves as a deterrent that may not involve prison or clogging up the courts IF police have the ability to issue the penalty and a lengthy trial isn’t required.

Imagine having to summon jurors for duty for every person who cheats on their spouse in the US… You’d run out of jurors.

That’s actually kind of sad to think about… Reflects badly on the state of marital affairs in the USA

Not a bad idea in my opinion, I’m not sure why this isn’t the status quo at the moment.

Say an individual is prosecuted over a false charge of rape and spends two years behind bars after which he or she is exonerated from his or her crimes.

Should the false accuser not also spend an equivalent amount of time behind jail? I believe they should, as whilst I don’t believe in the “eye for an eye” theory under many pretenses this seems fair.. perhaps the penalty for the false accuser ought to be greater, the mental anguish of knowing you are behind bars for a crime you didn’t commit and the consequences of having “accused of rape” allocated to your name for the rest of your life would be extensive.

What penalty do you believe ought to be ascribed from adultery? The Bible indicates capitol punishment for adultery. Under a Christian theocracy this would be the punishment provided the legal/criminal justice system also stems from biblical law. As I’m rather moderate get slightly lean towards being progressive I believe in the death penalty, but only for the most serious of crimes within individuals who are clearly well beyond rehabilitation. There’s no point paying for an inmate guilty of being a sadistic serial rapist/killer to be in isolation for the next 60 years as they serve out their 140 life sentences. It’s not as if they’ll ever be free… Why pay to feed and house them? They can’t give back all the life they’ve taken, they can’t be rehabilitated and they’ll never be integrated back into society regardless

Define false charge. Is it a complete fabrication or is it interpretation? And what about the prosecutor and police? An accusation, false or true, does not go to criminal court without the criminal justice system behind it.

The Bible also allowed sex slavery and polygamy. I wouldn’t base any law on the Bible because it is not consistent.

3 Likes

This

Then the prosecutor should be at fault. And it is already against the law to frame someone for a crime.

I do agree. You are enabling someone to do something unethical.

Right, it does. But Catholics don’t go solely by scripture. I think the penalty should be harsh though. I think anything that wrecks the family unit and changes children’s trajectories for the worse should be treated severely.

Polygamy and slavery are biblical but not condoned by the Catholic Church. Not only that, but just by common sense and observation, one can see polygamy causes social unrest and low investment parenting and slavery is inhumane.

2 Likes

Hence a punishment.

Throwing a parent in jail, let alone killing him or her, would damage the kids even more than just getting a divorce. Throw a man in jail for adultery, he can’t work, so who exactly will be paying to support the children?

1 Like

Not in the same ball park though.

One involves minors and is illegal the other… horny adults.

Unreal brought up the analogy. I am talking about the latter item.