Religion Catch All

[chris_ottawa]

@mnben87

It is my opinion that I’m being attacked due to a lack of counter argument. I could be wrong, but why attack someone personally when you could go after the idea?

I already attacked the idea and gave an example of my own, and I think you have to be sick in the head to have ideas such as yours. You believe that helping unfortunate people or animals is selfish, as is helping your own children. That is a seriously disturbed way of thinking. Being bothered by suffering and doing something about it is selfish? I would say if you aren’t bothered then you lack compassion. You sound like a psychopath.

@pat

If we wanted to be more evolutionary pure, men would compete directly for mates and the strong would fuck as many women as possible. We don’t do that.

Some do.

@mnben87

We are probably different in this regard. I don’t believe in the multi-verse, or other things that we can’t reasonably (I say reasonably, because we can’t get around something like solipsism) show to exist. I am off the position that I’ll believe when I have proof.

Do you believe in the big bang theory? Atheists seem to just love that one.

@mnben87

On this, it is my opinion that we need to agree to desire a happy society that includes everyone

What about those who prefer not to be included? What about those who oppose certain aspects of this utopian society and are unhappy with it?

@unreal24278

I believe I’ve been quasi insulted by chris ottawa numerous times. Resorting to insults based on character can be used as a decent rebuttal, though it’s akin to fighting dirty.

You keep attacking me for not supporting homosexuality, even when I’m not the one bringing it up. Stop playing the LGBT card, it doesn’t reflect well on your character at all.

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

You keep attacking me for not supporting homosexuality, even when I’m not the one bringing it up

Actually if we go way back you started the whole thing. You tried to enforce your agenda on my thread and when called out for it by numerous members you threw a tantrum and left. I had justification for attacking you regarding your opinion given your initial demeanour.

I’m not attacking you based on homosexuality here, though you have called me homosexual multiple times (hint: I’m not)

@chris_ottawa

Stop playing the LGBT card

There is no card to play… And quite frankly I couldn’t give a damn about what you think of me.

[chris_ottawa]

I just didn’t want to hear about your sexual experiences with another man. I don’t make posts in political threads about fucking girls, why should I have to hear about your sexual preferences?

[unreal24278]

It was my thread… I can talk about what I want within the confines of my thread. It was an off the cuff comment that you had an issue with for no good reason. Your response wasn’t appropriate and you were the only member who seemed to take offence to my post (that wasn’t detailed to begin with). Then you went on to compare homosexuality to raping children and bestiality and I got irritated.

I’m not interested in going over this again. This is off topic

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

Do you believe in the big bang theory? Atheists seem to just love that one.

Yes, its scientifically supported as opposed to the earth only being six thousand years old. I’m not an atheist however as there is no answer as to what caused the chain reaction of events that led to the big bang. There must be some of omnipresent force/energy beyond our comprehension. That is my belief/my concept of “God”. I don’t understand it, I won’t ever understand it and therefore I believe it is futile to try put into words/scripture what this force could possibly be. The universe is vast, almost infinite in size. How could I possibly understand or interpret a force capable of creating all of that?

@BrickHead do you interpret religious scripture word for word or do you percieve it as a set of moral fundamentals regarding how we as a society should behave? Do you believe in the type of god depicted within the Bible/Torah?

If god is wise/all knowing and kind, then why is he still? Why was the holocaust, spanish inquisition and other historical atrocities like the Salem Witch Trials etc ever allowed to occur?

Why do children fall ill with terminal diseases and why are otherwise good men/women sometimes delt unbelievably shitty hands in life?

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

I already attacked the idea and gave an example of my own, and I think you have to be sick in the head to have ideas such as yours.

But your example can be explained by selfish motives. I don’t think you grasp what I’m saying. I can assure you if anything I have more empathy than average. I’m certainly not a psychopath.

My position is currently accepted in science as the most probable explanation for our actions. I accept it tentatively until new evidence shows otherwise. This is a rational approach.

@chris_ottawa

Do you believe in the big bang theory? Atheists seem to just love that one.

I accept it tentatively as the best explanation we have. I will change if new evidence comes out that is more sound.

@chris_ottawa

What about those who prefer not to be included?

Well, generally people who don’t want those goals, usually have several outcomes with the most common being prison. Basically, we will have some of those people, and they are incompatible with living in a modern society.

[mnben87]

@unreal24278

I’m not an atheist however as there is no answer as to what caused the chain reaction of events that led to the big bang.

Do you believe in God(s)? Saying there might be a causing force doesn’t exclude one from being an atheist. Most agnostics are atheists. Agnostic refers to knowledge, atheism refers to belief.

I don’t know if there is a God so I’m agnostic. I don’t specifically believe in god, so I’m also atheist. Believing there is no God isn’t a requirement for atheism.

[unreal24278]

It depends what you consider “God”. Under the pretense of religious scripture I don’t believe in a holy deity of which we need to develop a spiritualistic relationship with/worship for a perceived better outcome in the afterlife (granted this isn’t exactly what judaism exactly preaches word for word verbatim).

I don’t believe Jesus Christ was the son of god… But why would I as I’m Jewish. I have trouble believing Moses was a prophet and honestly I have trouble believing the majority of events foretold regarding exile in Egypt, the ten plagues ever took place.

I do however believe in a force of which we cannot comprehend, that within itself is “god” to me and therefore I’m not an atheist. I can’t be certain that my beliefs are correct, I am but just one human, a tiny, insignificant speck of everything that is. I can’t possibly comprehend the prospect of “god”… I just don’t know…

At times I wonder whether religion was created to instill a sense of faith/meaning within the human population (aside from setting moral fundamentals). Uncertainty regarding why we are here, what happens in the afterlife (if anything happens) are uncomfortable topics to think about. A detailed, definitive answer instills a sense of security, comfort etc… I feel as if perhaps proposed eternal damnation and the literal epitomy of evil (satan) or the notion of “heaven” etc perhaps exist/were creations to instill comfort regarding otherwise unanswerable questions.

I’m referencing Christianity a lot here as opposed to Judaism as I assume people would be less familiar with Judaism.

Quite frankly, I don’t need faith and/or religious belief to feel adequate. I’m totally fine with thinking perhaps this is all we have. As society has progressed with advancements regarding industrialism, science and pragmatic thinking I believe some, but not all of the fundamentals preached within religious scripture are somewhat outdated. I furthermore dislike how the texts appear to contradict themselves almost constantly.

I’ve always been very evidence based/focused on scientific fact. My approach to belief has always been rather black and white with little room for leeway. Absent of irrefutable proof I tend to be very skeptical. Religion requires irrefutable, blinding, unwavering faith at times. As a child I couldn’t understand it and as an “adult” I still can’t wrap my head around it, though I’d never judge others for being religious so long as they aren’t preaching hate and/or inciting violence.

[chris_ottawa]

@unreal24278

It was my thread… I can talk about what I want within the confines of my thread.

It’s my party and I can cry if I want to

@unreal24278

I’m not attacking you based on homosexuality here, though you have called me homosexual multiple times (hint: I’m not)

Good for you. Seriously. But you really don’t need to be discussing intimate personal matters on a public forum, and for myself as a grown man with a wife and children it would be very strange to engage in such a conversation, especially with a young man. It just wouldn’t look right, I might as well be filming Cuties 2.

@unreal24278

Yes, its scientifically supported as opposed to the earth only being six thousand years old.

There is nothing to prove that it’s 6000 years old either.

But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8

@unreal24278

I’m not an atheist however as there is no answer as to what caused the chain reaction of events that led to the big bang. There must be some of omnipresent force/energy beyond our comprehension. That is my belief/my concept of “God”.

There you go, if the big bang is a real thing then who is to say that God didn’t cause it? Where did all this matter and energy come from anyway? Trying to reason with atheists is like trying to tell a blind man about the sun, moon, stars, and sky while he denies it.

@unreal24278

If god is wise/all knowing and kind, then why is he still? Why was the holocaust, spanish inquisition and other historical atrocities like the Salem Witch Trials etc ever allowed to occur?

Only God can tell you. Bad things happen for a reason.

Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?
Amos 3:6

People really do practice witchcraft though.

[chris_ottawa]

@mnben87

I can assure you if anything I have more empathy than average. I’m certainly not a psychopath.

But you are motivated by selfishness to try and make me believe that.

@mnben87

My position is currently accepted in science as the most probable explanation for our actions. I accept it tentatively until new evidence shows otherwise. This is a rational approach.

Why not do the right thing because it is the right thing to do? All you prove is that atheists are sick people.

@mnben87

I accept it tentatively as the best explanation we have.

Sounds like blind faith to me. Might as well memorize the Quran while you don’t know a word of Arabic.

@mnben87

Well, generally people who don’t want those goals, usually have several outcomes with the most common being prison. Basically, we will have some of those people, and they are incompatible with living in a modern society.

I don’t want any part of modern society and I’m not in a prison, nor am I about to go into one. Reminds me of something Kirk Karwoski said, Powerlifting is an external view of how pissed off at the world I really am.

[dt79]

@chris_ottawa

Only he knows what is going on in his mind, but unless he’s under some sort of mind control I would assume he went against his instincts. Even when people want to kill themselves they often have a hard time doing it.

I agree, it depends, but I don’t think it goes against his instincts. Anyone who’s gone through military training would probably get what I’m talking about. There’s always one hardcore dude who gets completely “brainwashed” in a sense.

Because when I apply this to “stopping a fight”, I would 100% do so, but only if it broke out right in front of me and I didn’t have time to think(and it’s happened before).

If I see a fight happening a couple of meters away I probably wouldn’t even give a shit.

This would be because I had to stop so many fights when I was a kid it essentially became almost instinctual. It was also something the “elders”, i.e, the “benign” old gangsters who “watched over a certain place” would do and tell us to do in order to maintain order.

So, maybe I’m just stressing the importance of nurture for children or something. Maybe it doesn’t even have to be a selfish or selfless thing when it comes to intent for an action, but we should “train” them to do what’s right anyway.

I don’t know. I’ve got lots of free time for the next couple of days and I don’t want to think about work so I’m just posting my thoughts.

Does intent really matter when it comes to a moral act(of course I’m aware it does in a criminal one)? Should we even give a fuck? Uber rich people can donate millions just to have a public hospital wing constructed and named after them to stroke their egos but it still benefits society.

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

There is nothing to prove that it’s 6000 years old either

Within Judaism I believe the implication is that the earth was created nearly 6000 years ago.

@chris_ottawa

Trying to reason with atheists is like trying to tell a blind man about the sun, moon, stars, and sky while he denies it.

Disagree, I think perhaps you need to be more accepting/have tolerance for other world views. Athiesm within itself can also be seen as a way to derive comfort regarding fear of the unknown (i.e if you’ve ascertained this is all there will ever be you can feel comfortable regarding death/the afterlife etc)… For some, others just legitimately don’t believe. I’ve specified i’m not an athiest, however my concept of “god” differs from the god described within religious scripture.

@chris_ottawa

Bad things happen for a reason

I’ve been told this before, and perhaps this is correct… I just can’t see the justification for atrocities like the holocaust, rowandan genocide etc. It’s just so horrible… The most insulting answer I’ve heard stems from a minority of the ultra orthodox. Apparently jews were becoming less stringent regarding religious practice, hence the holocaust occured as a means to punish us as we were straying from initialised values.

I think wiping out a large majority of the Jewish population in response to less religious practice would be absolutely barbaric.

@chris_ottawa

People really do practice witchcraft though.

Are you referring to satanic rituals (edgy stuff), or the witchcraft performed within third world countries like Uganda. Regarding witchcraft within third world countries, the rituals/practices involved are extremely abhorrent.

I’d like to believe witchcraft is generally more or less a third world commodity. There is never an acceptable place for vile shit like this in society

Child sacrifice in Uganda

@chris_ottawa

Powerlifting is an external view of how pissed off at the world I really am

(for myself) replace the variable of powerlifting with angsty, edgy music. If you’re into rock/metal I have some killer recommendations.

@chris_ottawa

All you prove is that atheists are sick people.

Statistically a very large portion of the Australian populace identify as athiest. Our country doesn’t have a whole lot of religious influence. That isn’t to say a large portion of Australians are sick in the head, sociocultural normalities differ by country/region.

[dt79]

My current opinion is that kids should be exposed to religion nowadays, even if only as a balance to a lot of things that one might consider to be depraved on the media parents find impossible to prevent them from consuming. This would be regardless of whether the parents are religious or not. But it SHOULD NOT BE MANDATED BY THE STATE.

Now, I understand some countries have some sort of “moral education” lessons in public schools. I’m very much against that because it normally ends up with kids simply being taught State propaganda. Another reason why I think the Church should be separate from the State.

And, of course, I’m not talking about, for example, some fundamentalist, bible thumping version of Christianity. Maybe just Sunday school at a Protestant Church for teaching good morals. You force the more fundamentalists things on some kids and it backfires completely. I knew 2 girls from ultra-conservative religious households who were engaging in gang bangs at 15, but the last time I heard, they’re happily married with kids so, yeah, shit happens.

Sometimes it works both ways, though. I was put in an adult cathechism class because of timing issues and some stories of the Old Testament probably only meant for the adults scared the living shit out of me. There was some real morbid shit going on lol.

10 brothers, with the youngest being just a young boy, refuse to renounce God get their hands and feet chopped off and fried to death in a large wok or something. I read that fucking story at 8 years old IIRC.

It’s probably why I watch so many crappy horror movies lol. That shit really messed me up for a LONG time. But, overall, it probably did me more good than bad. And Catholic guilt is REAL.

*I’m not deeply familiar with the teachings of other religions so I’m just talking about Christianity. It can be any other religion as long as it’s a legit one. And even though I know lots about Buddhism/Taoism, I’m pretty aware that the Western versions of these are entirely different so I won’t even go there.

EDIT:

And, as I said above, I didn’t really develop most of my morals and values from the religion itself even though they’re pretty similar, but I greatly admired the priests teaching the classes and conducting masses when I listened to them speak and when I spoke with them. One was from Belgium and the other was Welsh. Great guys with really cool sense of humors.

[BrickHead]

@chris_ottawa

I don’t want any part of modern society

Considering its consequences, neither do I. But unfortunately I have to deal with it, more or less, depending on what I do.

[BrickHead]

@dt79

it normally ends up with kids simply being taught State propaganda

In what country and when is this avoidable? Nowhere and never.

Propaganda is a tool, just like government is. Neither is inherently bad. The same applies to firearms, or anything that can be used for good or bad.

Propaganda is something that strikes the average lemming as bad because it brings to mind evil mustache men, even while being the most effectively propagandized person.

[unreal24278]

@BrickHead

Neither is inherently bad.

The definition of propaganda is misleading/biased information used to promote a political cause or point of view. It isn’t a legitimate tool one should use, rather it’s a means of indoctrination/brainwashing to convince a populace of a certain worldview/political cause which they might otherwise object to.

@BrickHead

The same applies to firearms, or anything that can be used for good or bad.

I assume we will disagree on this. Firearms should be subject to stringent regulations. In my opinion background checks, mental health checks and licensing/registration should be required for all firearm purchases. Generally speaking the USA has a disproportionate rate of firearm related deaths ( fatalities, accidental shootings and suicides) in comparison to other developed countries even when adjusted by population.

@BrickHead

just like government is

Government is supposed to be used as a tool to maintain the well-being of a society… Propaganda is used to mislead. I believe there’s an obvious difference between the two, although lines can be blurred when rampant corruption is present. I assume we will disagree on this as we both seem rather set in our ways.

@BrickHead

Considering its consequences, neither do I. But unfortunately I have to deal with it, more or less, depending on what I do.

Theoretically you don’t HAVE too, living off the grid and/or in non Western countries if plausible negates the need to deal with modern society. Have you ever been to a non secular country? It’s a shit show…

Off the grid however seems like it would be very peaceful. I’ve been to EXTREMELY rural Australia a few times, I can definitely see why one would prefer to reside in isolation. It’s absolutely beautiful

Had to edit rural to extremely rural as I reside in a semi-rural area to begin with.

[chris_ottawa]

@unreal24278

Within Judaism I believe the implication is that the earth was created nearly 6000 years ago.

Seems to me more like there is an argument that Adam was created 6000 years ago, not necessarily the world.

@unreal24278

I think perhaps you need to be more accepting/have tolerance for other world views.

They can think what they want but I won’t waste my time arguing with them.

@unreal24278

I think wiping out a large majority of the Jewish population in response to less religious practice would be absolutely barbaric.

Being chosen is a two way street.

@unreal24278

Are you referring to satanic rituals (edgy stuff), or the witchcraft performed within third world countries like Uganda. Regarding witchcraft within third world countries, the rituals/practices involved are extremely abhorrent.

Both, and more. In the Caribbean a lot of people involved in witchcraft use book by DeLaurence, an American author/sorcerer.

L. W. de Laurence

@unreal24278

I’d like to believe witchcraft is generally more or less a third world commodity. There is never an acceptable place for vile shit like this in society

Why do you think the Bible says they must be put to death?

[BrickHead]

[unreal24278]

Why are we posting up the definitions of propaganda?

[BrickHead]

Because the definition I provided includes facts and arguments, meaning that propaganda isn’t something that has to include lies and misinformation even though it can and often does, especially American propaganda.