Religion Catch All

[oglebee]

@BrickHead

Just remember these lines. Have them at the forefront of your mind, on standby so to speak.

I use so many of those but ironically in defending more conservative perspectives when talking to my progressive friends.

They are usually cluster fucks of conversations that are all over the place.

One second we are talking about moral relativism. Are there universal truths? Are all perspectives valid?

This inevitably leads to something like abortion. Which I say if a majority of people in certain region think abortion is immoral “who am I to judge”.

This leads to to an argument of states rights vs federal rights.

And pretty soon were are talking about what the true purpose of government is and if it is a representatives role to perform his duties in a manner in which his constituents who elected him would if they were in office or is his role to do what HE thinks is right for his constituents regardless of how they may feel about certain issues. You know for the good of society and everything.

I do not think most people are capable to changing their view points with out a really really strong stimulus. Like for instance. Let them all across the border. They deserve their shot at the American Dream. Well they get it. One of them rapes your daughter. Now you do a 180 join the alt right movement and are at the border in your Prius ready to start stacking bricks.

@squating_bear

I wouldn’t guarantee it in the case of a single child, but do you really think that showing such things dozens of times a day for a decade or two straight to a billion children would result in the same rates as if they had seen such things once a month only?

Bro. We’ve just removed the stigma associated with a perfectly normal and natural way of being. So people feel comfortable to express who they really are now.

In regards to what unreal was saying though. About “turning gay”.

I mean I don’t think seeing same sex couples hold hands will turn you one way or another. If we examine that observation in a vacuum.

But to argue that orientation is purely genetic is dishonest. Because if that were the case twin studies would show 100 % concordance regarding orientation between monozygotic twins and it doesn’t.

It is high. But its not something like 95 % or 85 % or 75 % its something like 65 %. What no way! Wow so there totally could be other possibly environmental factors affecting orientation.

There are a bunch of studies on this. But here is one all you have to do is read the abstract.

Homosexual orientation in twins: a report on 61 pairs and three triplet sets...

Also in regards to Unreal saying can’t make someone gay.

IDK. Children who are victims of abuse have higher rates of homosexuality. Now this is clearly open to debate regarding causality. But read this article.

Does Maltreatment in Childhood Affect Sexual Orientation in Adulthood?

[chris_ottawa]

@mnben87

I am not a fan of this logic. It would follow that we just shouldn’t have straight sex either as that is also risky.

How else will any non-hermaphroditic or asexual species continue to exist?

@unreal24278

A good analogy would be prostitution in Australia.

How is that a good analogy? Comparing hookers and their clients to a married couple. You live in a different world.

@BrickHead

considering the amount of fatherless children out there, humans aren’t reliable enough anyway.

Birth control is not 100% effective. I know a guy who has one kid with a girl he only had sex with once and used a condom which did not break, confirmed by DNA testing, and another kid that was conceived while the mother was taking birth control pills.

@unreal24278

a (protected) one night stand or paying to sleep with a prostitute is generally devoid of consequence.

See above

@unreal24278

I don’t consider prostitution to be immoral either… I think it’s a job and nothing more.

You would suck a dick for a few dollars?

@oglebee

But with current LGBTQ movement its obvious that gender roles are trying to be torn down. Everything is a social construct. You are human being that is totally a blank canvas. You can be whatever you want.

It’s called transhumanism

@oglebee

Same sex relations have existed as long as man has existed.

But I feel there is something greater occurring in our society at the moment. A shift culturally that could do more harm than good.

These groups are trying to deconstruct everything.

Infectious diseases have existed as long as man has existed too, but nobody is calling for them to spread uncontrolled throughout the population.

@oglebee

So anyways pushing girls to embrace masculine traits yet simultaneously decrying “toxic masculinity”. But if its so toxic why are girls being pushed to be more masculine.

Because it’s OK if a girl does it.

@oglebee

Seems like China clearly knows multiculturalism does not work. All they had to do was look at the West.

Here we have affirmative action and hiring quotas. China has reeducation camps.

@oglebee

I’ve read somewhere once that China was spreading this idea that large portions of its population were Han. So they were literally telling these groups of people your ethnicity is Han.

Geneticist came in did a couple mouth swabs a couple PCRs and found out that the CCP were feeding these people complete bullshit.

Cultural assimilation. Much easier if the dominant culture has something going for it. No wonder immigrants in western countries don’t.

@squating_bear

I wouldn’t guarantee it in the case of a single child, but do you really think that showing such things dozens of times a day for a decade or two straight to a billion children would result in the same rates as if they had seen such things once a month only?

On top of that they encourage kids to experiment with all sort of freakiness.

@oglebee

Let them all across the border. They deserve their shot at the American Dream. Well they get it. One of them rapes your daughter. Now you do a 180 join the alt right movement and are at the border in your Prius ready to start stacking bricks.

Poetic justice meets hypocrisy

[oglebee]

@chris_ottawa

How else will any non-hermaphroditic or asexual species continue to exist?

We obviously need to evolve. I am in facebook group were we all pretend we are ants. Do ant things. Protect the queen. Shit like that.

So it got me fascinated with ants.

Did you know worker ants are all female. They either become a worker or queen and thats determined by diet.

Male ants are rare. Are haploid only having one copy of the ant genome. Their job is to give the queen ant some really disappointing love making for a few minutes and then die.

Think how much better our society would be. Women should all be workers. A few smoking hot, ultra smart females out there just pumping out babies after being seeded by grade A semen from only the strongest most viable males.

See Chris you lack vision man. You need to think bigger.

[squating_bear]

Thank you

[chris_ottawa]

@oglebee

Think how much better our society would be. Women should all be workers. A few smoking hot, ultra smart females out there just pumping out babies after being seeded by grade A semen from only the strongest most viable males.

Sounds oddly similar to the direction that western society is heading, minus the transsexuals and vibrators.

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

How is that a good analogy? Comparing hookers and their clients to a married couple. You live in a different world.

I was referring to STI risk when adequate precautions are taken. No need to be rude. Pregnancy can be sorted out via emergency contraception and in worst case scenarios… Abortion (individualistic perceptions regarding the ethicality surrounding abortion is a different topic altogether).

@chris_ottawa

You would suck a dick for a few dollars?

No

@oglebee

Children who are victims of abuse have higher rates of homosexuality. Now this is clearly open to debate regarding causality. But read this article.

I’ve seen this before and I have a theory. Sexual abuse is traumatic enough to permanently rewire neurology. Seeing two men/women hold hands in public isn’t confusing or traumatic.

This fear is overblown and not based within factual evidence imo, I seldom see blatantly inappropriate PDA in public whether it be from heterosexual or homosexual couples. Toddlers/infants don’t know what sexual relations are, seeing two women kiss will probably go over their head.

@oglebee

But to argue that orientation is purely genetic is dishonest. Because if that were the case twin studies would show 100 % concordance regarding orientation between monozygotic twins and it doesn’t.

I’d argue being a twin identical twin doesn’t indicate neurological makeup is identical. We aren’t going to agree here.

@squating_bear

wouldn’t guarantee it in the case of a single child, but do you really think that showing such things dozens of times a day for a decade or two straight to a billion children would result in the same rates as if they had seen such things once a month only?

How DARE you have a different opinion to me!!! I’m going on the attack (just kidding).

[chris_ottawa]

@unreal24278

Abortion (individualistic perceptions regarding the ethicality surrounding abortion is a different topic altogether).

Why not? I personally think all murder is ethical. Prove me wrong. Survival of the fittest.

@unreal24278

No

Closet homophobe? Or just too lazy to work?

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

Why not? I personally think all murder is ethical. Prove me wrong. Survival of the fittest.

The ethics surrounding abortion as a sole entity isn’t an appropriate discussion to discuss here, it would be akin to detailing this thread. If you wish to continue this portion of our discussion we should do so on a different thread.

@chris_ottawa

Closet homophobe? Or just too lazy to work?

Both!!! Just kidding, my reasons are.

• I don’t want to perform oral sex on men for money
• if I did wish to prostitute myself for money, a few dollars doesn’t seem like it’d worth the effort.

I think we should get back to religious discussion though, or somehow bring up the prospect.of socioculturally engrained religious influence in reference to these topics at hand in order to keep this discussion on track.

@BrickHead

Who am I to judge?”

“Who are you to judge.”

“It’s not my place to judge…”

“We’re all God’s children.”

“It’s not my business what consenting adults…”

“What goes on behind closed doors…”

“Why do you care…?”

“Everyone has the ‘right’ to be happy.”

“It’s 2020. I can’t believe, in this day and age… (refer to something you’re turned off by).”

“No one has the right…”

“You don’t have the right…”

We can all spin language to suit our personalised agendas, this isn’t anything new. I’ve also heard these phrases being used within what I perceive to be malicious context

[oglebee]

@unreal24278

I’d argue being a twin identical twin doesn’t indicate neurological makeup is identical. We aren’t going to agree here.

Ok thats silly.

You do not think there is a genetic component to neurology?

There is overwhelming evidence that there is.

Also, I think you have inadvertently agreed with me.

Twins are as close to having an identical duplicate of someone as you can get.

When you separate them and follow up years later. You can see what effect environment can have on them.

Again twins are identical a you can get when they are first born. It is their environment over time that slowly makes them different. Literally changes their DNA over time.

The neural connections in your brain are definitely going to be altered by the experiences you have. Also ample evidence for this.

So I would imagine two twins over time will have a different brain based on their experiences.

But that brain will still be more similar than two dizygotic twins.

Maybe I should have asked your opinion first.

Do you think orientation is 100 % genetic?

How do you explain the twin studies?

Now just because I may not agree that it is 100 % genetic does not necessarily mean I am saying its a choice.

@unreal24278

I’ve seen this before and I have a theory. Sexual abuse is traumatic enough to permanently rewire neurology. Seeing two men/women hold hands in public isn’t confusing or traumatic.

You should read the article. People who are much more of an expert in those areas than you or I have some really great ideas on the subject.

I mean its cool you have an idea on what you think could be causing it but here is perfect opportunity to read a little bit more on it by experts. It is not even that long.

Also, on a side note I just want to point out your response its interesting to me. This is going to come off as critical. But I think the way you navigate these ideas is troublesome. I like our back and forth exchanges.

@unreal24278

I’ve seen this before and I have a theory. Sexual abuse is traumatic enough to permanently rewire neurology. Seeing two men/women hold hands in public isn’t confusing or traumatic.

Lets break this down.

@unreal24278

I’ve seen this before and I have a theory.

A 19 year old who does not have an advanced degree in any field so is not an expert has a theory.

@unreal24278

Sexual abuse is traumatic enough to permanently rewire neurology.

I agree with you. Although off the top of my head, I have no date to actually bring to the table to support that claim.

@unreal24278

Seeing two men/women hold hands in public isn’t confusing or traumatic.

OK so a 19 year old non expert gives a non expert opinion/theory as framework to explain a phenomena that I brought up as a discussion point for the fact that perhaps you can maybe make someone gay. I provided a study with experts in the field discussing it. You don’t read it. Give me your theory.

Then you tell me that hand holding isn’t traumatic. Which who are you to say it isn’t to some people.

So now your saying that based on your non expert theory and the fact that you determined hand holding of same sex couples to not be traumatic. Well there is no way hand holding can contribute to making people gay. Because trauma causes neural rewiring and that is what is most likely causing the increased incidence of same sex relationships in recipients of child hood abuse and hand holding is not traumatic.

I am a self admitted dumb dumb myself. So not talking trash. I am my own harshest critic. I try to always maintain an open mind.

Just curious if you see how the conclusions you came to there, how it might be a bit flawed.

[BrickHead]

@oglebee

“who am I to judge”.

A grown man, and An intelligent one on top of that.

[unreal24278]

@oglebee

A 19 year old who does not have an advanced degree in any field so is not an expert has a theory.

Admittedly there is some “dunning kreuger effect” going on here on my part. When I meant said “I have a theory”, what I meant is “this is what I think :)”

It should be noted that just like religious scripture scientific literature frequently contradicts itself. You can find a paper suiting just about any body of thought if you look hard enough, evidence can be assessed via credibility + sheer numbers regarding papers (when pertaining to scientific literature).

@oglebee

Also, on a side note I just want to point out your response its interesting to me. This is going to come off as critical. But I think the way you navigate these ideas is troublesome. I like our back and forth exchanges.

How DARE you give criticise me!!! People shouldn’t be amenable to their own opinions… If I’m not right, NO ONE IS!

@oglebee

Do you think orientation is 100 % genetic?

Not exactly, I believe sexual orientation is a byproduct of genetic, hormonal and to a lesser extent environmental influences (trauma etc). Once someone is definitively homosexual I don’t believe you can “convert” someone. As a matter of fact I believe attempting to do so is traumatic and inhumane.

@oglebee

mean its cool you have an idea on what you think could be causing it but here is perfect opportunity to read a little bit more on it by experts. It is not even that long.

I’m in hospital all hopped up on drugs, my attention span has been shot to shit. If you shoot me an email (email in bio) I’ll tell you exactly what I’m on. I get out in a couple of days, we can presumably have a more in depth conversation then if you’re interested.

I spend a good portion of my time checking out medical literature, I’m not foreign to the concept of looking at data to develop an opinion. That being said, sexual orientation isn’t something I’ve had an in-depth look at before.

[oglebee]

@unreal24278

Admittedly there is some “dunning kreuger effect” going on here. When I meant said “I have a theory”, what I meant is “this is what I think :)”

See this statement. Also interesting.

Do you know what the Dunning Kreuger effect is?

Either you’re throwing shade at me or you’re throwing shade at yourself. You didn’t really specify what you meant either.

Either we should fight. Or you need to surround yourself with positive imagery and see a life coach, work on that self esteem haha.

@unreal24278

It should be noted that just like religious scripture scientific literature frequently contradicts itself. You can find a paper suiting just about any body of thought if you look hard enough, evidence can be assessed via credibility + sheer numbers regarding papers (when pertaining to scientific literature).

Yeah but science tends to accept when its wrong and move forward. For the most part. Religion is way more rigid. Which would be one of my criticism of it.

But I guess the point is I said perhaps orientation is environmental. Deferred to opinions and findings of people much more in the know than me.

Sure you can cherry pick studies to push the narrative that appeals to your emotions but even as bad as that may be it is still more credible than saying “I think this is the truth although for no particular reason” and then make a serious of statements to make your point that require assuming what you just said is true. Although you have no reason to believe it to be true.

Again no expert debater although I am a master debater.

@unreal24278

Once someone is definitively homosexual I don’t believe you can “convert” someone. As a matter of fact I believe attempting to do so is traumatic and inhumane.

Yeah data does not really seem to support the efficacy of conversion therapy does it now.

@unreal24278

I’m in hospital all hopped up on drugs, my attention span has been shot to shit. If you shoot me an email (email in bio) I’ll tell you exactly what I’m on. I get out in a couple of days, we can presumably have a more in depth conversation then if you’re interested.

I spend a good portion of my time checking out medical literature, I’m not foreign to the concept of looking at data to develop an opinion. That being said, sexual orientation isn’t something I’ve had an in-depth look at before.

Hope you are alright and get out soon. Enjoy this beautiful weather we are having.

[unreal24278]

@oglebee

Do you know what the Dunning Kreuger effect is?

Yes, from my understanding the dunning kreuger effect is a cognitive bias effect of sorts when someone with a low level of understanding overestimates their ability to comprehend a certain topic. In the middle of the spectrum, the individual believes as if they no nothing and on the opposite end confidence is rebuilt (after someone is an expert).

I wasn’t throwing shade at myself per se, I was stating that I don’t know a whole lot about sexual orientation and/or the science that drives it hence I may be overstepping abilities here, I’m willing to admit when i’m out of my realm.

@oglebee

Hope you are alright and get out soon. Enjoy this beautiful weather we are having.

Thank you

I wasn’t intending to be insulting.

[chris_ottawa]

@unreal24278

The ethics surrounding abortion

I was just talking about murder in general

@unreal24278

I don’t want to perform oral sex on men for money

How about on women?

@unreal24278

if I did wish to prostitute myself for money, a few dollars doesn’t seem like it’d worth the effort.

How much is worth the effort? You sound like one real high class hoe.

@unreal24278

I think we should get back to religious discussion though

Why? You are an atheist, what do you care about religion?

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

I was just talking about murder in general

Is murder / killing ever justified?

@chris_ottawa

Why? You are an atheist, what do you care about religion?

It is reasonable for anyone to debate stuff like this in a format like this.

[chris_ottawa]

@mnben87

Is murder / killing ever justified?

When is it not? If murdering an unborn baby is jutifiable then so is murdering anyone for any reason.

[unreal24278]

@chris_ottawa

You sound like one real high class hoe.

I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or insulting.

@chris_ottawa

How about on women?

I’m not interested in sex work. I haven’t thought about an allotted price as to what would be worth my time.

@chris_ottawa

If murdering an unborn baby

An embryo isn’t conscious and doesn’t have fully formed organs, a developed human being is/does. What’s the difference between aborting an embryo and ejaculating into a tissue (I’m being purposely controversial/provocative here)

@chris_ottawa

You are an atheist, what do you care about religion?

What makes you think I’m an atheist. I’m agnostic, I don’t understand why we are here, why everything is the way it is and I admit there has to be something beyond our comprehension at play. A scientific explanation exists predating up to the big bang (the theory I abide by)… But what caused the chain reaction of events that initiated the big bang?

I was raised Jewish, I identify as Jewish and I can appreciate the tight knit community gatherings and certain traditions we have that are associated with religion.

I may find the concept of organised religion outdated and many ideologies preached hypocritical, but that doesn’t mean I care about religion.

[oglebee]

@unreal24278

An embryo isn’t conscious, a developed human being is. What’s the difference between aborting an embryo and ejaculating into a tissue.

Pregnant women carrying a child. She is 12 weeks pregnant she is on her way to the abortion clinic.

Drunk driver hits her and kills her.

Two murder charges or one?

Can I murder you when you are under anaesthesia?

You are not conscious.

Can I murder you when you are asleep?

You are not conscious?

No you can’t murder me when I am under anaesthesia. I am gonna wake up when they are done with the surgery.

No you can’t murder me when I am asleep I am also going to wake up.

No you can’t murder me when I am in the womb. Because I am well on my way to being born and waking up.

Regardless of opinions you know the difference between ejaculating into a tissue and abortion.

[BrickHead]

@squating_bear
JP is right about motherhood, career, the sexual revolution, the concept of enforced monogamy, that The majority people follow Whatever a current narrative is, and several other matters.

For some other matters he walks up to the line of scrimmage and then remains vague or backs out. For example, I Remember a video in which he was talking to an audience about Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a man he admires, and some guy in the audience put him on the spot about a certain group of people AS was highly critical of. JP said, “I can’t answer”. If he wanted to lecture about the man, he simply could’ve explained why AS had such criticism, even if Peterson wasn’t fond of it or didn’t agree with it.

[unreal24278]

I’ll answer these as per how I see things

@oglebee

Two murder charges or one?

One

@oglebee

Can I murder you when you are under anaesthesia?

Yes

@oglebee

Can I murder you when you are asleep?

Yes, but only if I’m having a nightmare (irrelevant comical statement)

Being conscious forms one aspect here. I see a difference between murdering a fully formed human being and expelling a clump of cells. Where I come from abortion is an openly accepted medical procedure (not that it matters, but sociocultural normalities here differ from that in the USA).

I’m aware that my terminology is crude and perhaps upsetting for some. I’m merely conveying my opinion, you are free to disagree with me.