Sounds like some kind of Gnostic or Satanic beliefs
I donโt know about that, it seems a bit hasty to me. Many people seem to be able to compartmentalize different aspects of their lives. There are Christian cosmologists after all (rare, but they do exist).
Well I canโt prove it, thatโs for sure
Thank you for asking
Before expounding on the part you quoted, let me put my perspective around why I said it first
Blaming God or blaming Adam isnโt the best way, it is better to believe in a perfect God with a perfect plan. If that is what we are doing, then we should agree on what I said before - that it is somehow for the greater good - otherwise the plan would be imperfect
How could it possibly be for the greater good??
Man, thatโs a hard question to answer thoroughly
If the future heaven dwellers appreciate it all a lot more after having an expanded perspective of some earth suffering, that might be one way
Let me know if you want a more thorough exposition, I might not be able to, but I can try harder
I remember a time I blasted on you rudely in another thread, maybe a year or two ago. Sorry for that, please forgive me
Blaming people for anything when itโs a part of Godโs plan seems like a waste of emotional energy to me. Itโs better to be patient and/or thankful if possible. You were patient, I remember, even if you forgot. Thanks again
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And heโs the guy you want to fuck with?
I wouldnโt, but it seems you have
It is an obvious idea, yes, I wouldnโt know how to tell if it would have been better or not - I donโt have enough perspective
My belief is not based on proofs I can prove, it is more akin to desperation
So itโs in my habits and instincts to slow down, delay, exhaust the sort of thing you are saying here while energizing what I think is better
Itโs got more in common with persuasion than an argument that ends
It seems if you read the story, God was mad when he kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden. It seems like if it was in his plan, he wouldnโt have been upset?
Is the Adam and Eve story a part of Islam? Not sure TBH? I know some parts are shared as it is an Abrahamic religion.
Well, heโs certainly not the guy I want to spend eternity with in the afterlife.
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Well it appears there is some free will in heaven. Lucifer and the angels had free will. If you end up there and want to leave, that may be an option. Not sure if free will is extended to humans though?
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Iโm not sure if Iโve read that part of the Bible or not. If I did it was a while ago and I donโt remember the details well
โNot so fastโ, heh
If I watch a movie without being scared, angry, sad, startled, etc at any point, it might not be my favorite movie. A perfect movie would have such things, why not a perfect plan?
We have annoyed, upset, angry, furious etc in the English language - we would have to go to Hebrew to get down to the bottom of this
A perfect God being willing to take on some degree of frustration for His imperfect creation just might be part of what Perfection entails
I donโt recall God being angry at that in the Quran or Hadith, but I donโt remember them all either. I havenโt even seen all of the Hadith, much less remember
Yeah it is, but itโs scattered, not told in one place in chronological order.
I think it wouldnโt be easy for a Muslim to dismiss the possibility of God being angry at that. It might be easy for one to confirm it, I canโt right now
Perhaps because these things being in his plan are contradictory to the more positive descriptions of God in the Bible. However, the descriptions of God in the Bible are contradictory anyways, so who knows.
So if it is part of Godโs plan that Eve sinned, then his plan was to create imperfect beings. How does a perfect being do imperfect things? Seems contradictory.
So God gives us free will and thousands of religions and heโs torturing us for eternity if we donโt pick the right one? What if our god given logic and knowledge makes us not believe? Weโre just fucked I guess. If he wanted us to have redemption why did he create such convoluted rules that few agree on? Why not actually show your presence?
Iโm a pretty good person whoโs made a career out of helping the less fortunate. Maybe that doesnโt count for anything since Iโm not Muslim? Wait Catholic. Wait Amish. Shit Buddhist. Mormon. Damnit the choices are staggering.
That is why he had others write it down 2000-5000 years ago in languages he knew would die out.
The answer is that the potter gets to make use of the clay for โgoodโ and โbadโ use. I have no idea why Christians feel the need to sit here and argue otherwise. Weโre not here to sell hippie-Father and son buddy-Jesus.
Iโve rejected the whole free will, touchy feelie, most of us will be saved outside of some kind of extreme circumstance, creator.
Watch some John Piper on Godโs sovereignty. And then run away angry and in denial. But if youโre one of those who do stick around, howdy!
God planned and saw to it that the torture and death of the Son would happen. Herod, Pilate, the Romans, the Pharisees did exactly what they were chosen to do. Why deny it?
The answer is that in scale we are less to God than the flea on a ratโs ass in power and knowledge. And you know how much time we spend on the well being of a flea. Iโm shocked God has any concern at all for us.
Heck, theyโve already made an informed rejection of Christ even with the friendliest spin you can put on it. Some of them reject faith in general, outright. You canโt even agree there is true good and evil, any sort, of creator at all, yet weโre already talking the Bible?
Just a beginning if anyone is actually interested in the whole Christian thing.
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I donโt see a contradiction with a perfect being creating imperfect beings
If those imperfect beings fit perfectly in His perfect plan, then their imperfections are a matter of perspective
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If we were perfect, we wouldnโt need God.
I didnโt notice anyone arguing that we were perfect
I think his argument was that a supposedly perfect God with a supposedly perfect plan wouldnโt have any imperfections
If you are addressing me, please @treco me so l know.
Where were you going with this?
Did I miss something?
We would be God.
Hadith
ุนููู ุฃูุจูู ููุฑูููุฑูุฉู ุฑูุถููู ุงูููููู ุนููููู ููุงูู: ููุงูู ุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู ุตููููู ุงูููููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู ู:
ุฅูููู ุงูููููู ุนูุฒูู ููุฌูููู ููุงูู: ู ููู ุนูุงุฏูู ููู ูููููููุงุ ููููุฏู ุขุฐูููุชููู ุจูุงููุญูุฑูุจูุ ููู ูุง ุชูููุฑููุจู ุฅูููููู ุนูุจูุฏูู ุจูุดูููุกู ุฃูุญูุจูู ุฅูููููู ู ูู ููุง ุงููุชูุฑูุถูุชู ุนูููููููุ ููู ูุง ููุฒูุงูู ุนูุจูุฏูู ููุชูููุฑููุจู ุฅูููููู ุจูุงููููููุงูููู ุญูุชููู ุฃูุญูุจููููุ ููุฅูุฐูุง ุฃูุญูุจูุจูุชูููุ ููููุชู ุณูู ูุนููู ุงูููุฐูู ููุณูู ูุนู ุจูููุ ููุจูุตูุฑููู ุงูููุฐูู ููุจูุตูุฑู ุจูููุ ููููุฏููู ุงูููุชูู ููุจูุทูุดู ุจูููุงุ ููุฑูุฌููููู ุงูููุชูู ููู ูุดูู ุจูููุงุ ููุฅููู ุณูุฃูููููู ููุฃูุนูุทููููููููุ ููููุฆููู ุงุณูุชูุนูุงุฐูููู ููุฃูุนููุฐููููููุ ููู ูุง ุชูุฑูุฏููุฏูุชู ุนููู ุดูููุกู ุฃูููุง ููุงุนููููู ุชูุฑูุฏููุฏูู ุนููู ููููุณู ุนูุจูุฏูู ุงููู ูุคูู ูููุ ููููุฑููู ุงููู ูููุชู ููุฃูููุง ุฃูููุฑููู ู ูุณูุงุกูุชููู"
ุฑูุงู ุงูุจุฎุงุฑู
On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (๏ทบ) said:
Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said: Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.
It was related by al-Bukhari.
Sahih
Arabic/English book : Hadith 25
Hadith Qudsi
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