Just checking on consistency, but you are against IVF treatment, right?
Never gave it much thought, though I believe Catholics are against it.
I believe you are correct, and the Catholics are logically consistent on IVF.
Many prolife people (outside of Catholic prolife) are inconsistent on this. It makes them a bit hard to take seriously. They seem to believe killing an embryo is murder if it is in a woman, but if it is outside a women in an IVF situation it is not murder (and is an acceptable medical procedure).
Some people can’t reproduce without adequate intervention. @unreal24278 was conceived IVF and refers to himself in the third person
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At the moment there are about 40 million people in slavery in the world. 28 million (70%) are female. A lot of these are not adults and have been sexually trafficked.
Often in this thread the term child is used to talk about the baby but often the expecting and raped mother is a child.
I’ve worked with many mother’s who where children when they became pregnant. Very few have a support network in place. Many are targeted.
Not picking on anyone just thought I should highlight it as rape is mentioned a lot in this thread.
Btw trafficked doesn’t just mean national borders it happens regularly everywhere. A child coerced between blocks of flats, or houses in the same road.
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It was mentioned in talking about abortion because it is one of the go-to arguments of pro-abortion people.
I might of misunderstood a point. I was taking your view as against abortion for any situation. I was just highlighting the situation that a very common group of rape victims are children. So there’s a tiny chance of any support.
I have no idea if that makes a difference to you or others.
Also, there are medical issues where the foetus stops growing. It will never live. If the pregnancy continues it will likely harm the mother.
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not a quotes from the bibles, but one that a appreciate also
My heart can take on any form: A meadow for gazelles, A cloister for monks, For the idols, sacred ground, Ka’ba for the circling pilgrim, The tables of the Torah, The scrolls of the Quran. My creed is Love; Wherever its caravan turns along the way, That is my belief, My faith.
ibn-arabi
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I get all this but I look at the solution to rape in the first place as a matter of law enforcement in the first place. That is, solving a pervasive rape problem if there is one in the first place rather than being pro-abortion partly because some rape victims become pregnant.
I’m aware that not everyone has support systems, either because some are unfortunate to no fault of their own and have sad circumstances or because they themselves never invested in other people.
I don’t think being anti-abortion is a flippant stance to take, and I pondered the matter before becoming so. I think being pro-abortion is easier.
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A distinction needs to be made between pro abortion and pro choice. Pro abortion is a simplistic and divisive term used by people who want to vilify others. One can find abortion abhorrent yet believe it’s a personal choice because we aren’t arrogant and narcissistic enough to believe others should conform to our morals and beliefs. Especially when we can’t put ourselves in the other person’s shoes.
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Perhaps some use it as that but I use it simply for what it is: being for abortion.
One could be against abortion on a moral standpoint, and recognize it should be legal for people to do. For example, I am against people cheating, but I realize it shouldn’t be illegal. This is why pro choice is a better term to describe most who advocate for the legality of abortion.
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I understand all that. I also understand that there are others who want morality worked into law.
Adultery is criminalized in six states, so it works out in some cases.
The world operates largely on the imposition of will.
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I am fine with this if there is good reasons to do so. We all agree (or almost all) that murder, theft, rape should be illegal. Those things being illegal are consistent with the beliefs we have in regard to a person’s rights.
Abortion is different than those things, because making it illegal would be inconsistent with the belief that people should have the sole rights to their own body. If we were to make abortion illegal, we would then be saying that one doesn’t have sole rights to their own body. The ramifications of that would be far spread if we were being logically consistent (forced organ or other bodily part donations for example). Pro life individuals tend to believe that people have rights to their own body except in the case of pregnancy. They don’t have a sound justification for why a woman should be forced to give up bodily rights. This is likely why Roe hasn’t been overturned (right to life is always under the right to bodily autonomy).
Or prison, the military and sometimes with regard to capital punishment.
Which is incorrect.
I get all this. I suppose you should be satisfied because many things in the current day are going your way and will continue to do so for a considerable amount of time. All things liberal and libertarian will continue, that is.
What’s incorrect?
Being pro choice is being pro abortion.
Like religious freedom.