Ancient Greece was a pretty broad place. States were quite different from each other in customs, and acceptance/tolerance of homosexuality. The big difference from today is the older societies such as Sparta even if you were homosexual you still had a duty to the state to mate with women. They had customs that ensured it. Life of Lycurgus is the book to read about Sparta. Being effeminate was always a sign of weakness.
In Athens it was mainly the elites like Socrates, that indulged in homosexuality. It was mainly pedophilia on younger boys. It wasnāt widely tolerated, but accepted as a practice that occurred.
Most Greek societies at the time kept slaves to one degree or other. Sparta was totally reliant on them. The ancient Greeks for all their positive points, had many practices that civilised societies for the last several hundred years, would find repulsive.
A society that could be argued as falling due to homosexuality was Weimar Germany.
The moral and sexual degeneracy of the period, by cosmopolitan elites, led to a situation where the average person looked to someone who would clean up the society.
That person was Hitler.
I was responding to three people though. You see the distinction right?
And also. My posts are more concise and linear. Much easier to read. Its much easier if you make your point without extraneous tid bits thrown in. We all know you know how to use the google search bar. Donāt need to flex that hard.
Hardly successful is still more successful than not successful at all. Havenāt looked at the stats at all though. If they even exist.
There is not just simping by womanless men. Even some taken men have proposed matriarchy, including some on this board. We already live in a gynecocracy with plenty of single-mother and matriarchal households and matriarchal schools. So that has many of us raised and directed by women from one day old to 21 years old. Couple this with misandric and gynocentric entertainment, a court system, and social forces and we can see all the solidā¦ confident ā¦ level headedā¦ well adjusted men out there.
Sarcasm aside, that particular stew did me no favors and made many a man basketcases! @oglebee
They didnāt understand the concept, as itās fairly recent.
Sex in Greece and Rome was conditioned on who was doing the penetration - if you were a Roman male, you were free to bang slaves of both genders, men of lower social standing and wealth, prostitutes and so on, as do the scribblings from Pompeii attest, among others. The poet Ovid was ridiculed in Rome for his effeminacy for sleeping exclusively with women.
The problem was when a person of higher social standing played a passive role in the intercourse. Hostius Quadra, a fabulously rich slave owner was murdered by his disgusted slaves, not for the fact that he hooked up with everyone, but due to the fact that he, a man of means, was playing the passive role in sexual encounters.
The same issues arose with Julius Caesarās hook up with the King of Bithynia during an ambassadorship in his youth. It wouldnāt have been a problem had he, a prominent Roman, penetrated a barbarian king, but his alleged passivity and the mocking nickname the āQueen of Bithyniaā were scandalous.
The interesting thing is. I donāt think women truly want to live in that type of society either.
I read an article that discussed how European women may be more sexually attracted to the middle eastern migrants in the country.
One person postulated that it was because they embraced their masculinity and women were naturally drawn to that and the European men had effectively been castrated to a large degree.
I maintain my stance that the direction we are going in will lead to collapse and all things will revert back to the balance intended by mother nature. I hope I am wrong but these contrived farces are setting us up to implode.
It was a jokeā¦ pandering towards my own perceived vulnerability as an individual who canāt read social ques adequately.
Havenāt looked into it, I doubt they exist.
Do you seriously think I waste valuable time making hundreds of google searches in effort to come across as something Iām not?
Disagree, otherwise āno commentā. This is controversial shit to be talking about. If any of this ever comes back to me decades down the line in an even more āwokeā era I donāt want people to shit on me for being āanti-womanā. To clarify, Iām all for gender equality. What I dislike is the current prospect of gender SUPERIORITY that is occasionally being pandered through hollywoo-ā¦ nope.. no comment
I see no problem with female empowerment, however as a society we also need to talk about the issues men face, as opposed to sweeping them under the rug. Rates of major depression/suicide amongst men are sky high, yet we need not talk about this as āmen donāt cryā. Youād think with all the detestment regarding toxic masculinity weād try wipe out the toxic societal constructs actually associated with this aforementioned variable as opposed to focusing on silly shit like kids horsing around.
We recently had a case in Aus wherein a single mother was cleared of charges after raping a fourteen year old boy. Can you imagine the outcry had the genders been flipped?
Iām not particuarly educated on this topic, but wasnāt Weimar Germany failing due to rampant poverty following the Great Depression and perceived guilt over WWI?
To blame the failure of the Weimar Republic in homosexuality seems ridiculous
No, Iāve always written this way. I excelled in English due to this (during school). I found a formula wherein you could merely read the synopsis of the novels presented, focus on a few key events, memorise half a dozen quotes, sprinkle in a few big words and youād be almost guaranteed to get an A/B+ minimum.
Favourite class due to the total lack of effort required to pass.
I think you should research what was going on in Berlin at the time. There was far more than homosexuality there. Youāll have some interesting reading.
You are correct about the economic pressures. Like many issues they are multi faceted. They had a culture war at the time, Bolshevism vs traditional German. Most Germans didnāt like the degeneracy.
Much in the way Paris was the artistic capital of the world, Weimar Germany was the degenerate sex capital of the world at the time. There are plenty of documentaries about it. You will need to look on Bitchute because Youtube will have probably banned them for being politically incorrect.
When a significant part of a culture is only concerned by individual hedonism, and neglects the realities of life, its only a matter of time before it collapses, either under its own weight or is taken over by a stronger culture.
It was even an inspiration for an American Horror Story Episode.
For whatever reasons there are people who canāt grasp that licentiousness leads to ruin or that it leads to an element of angry, lonely and resentful men.
This is why the Netherlands collapsed under its own weight of prostitution and soft stance on hedonistic attitudes right? Iāll bet the sky fell in Canada too.
This is your opinion, that doesnāt make it fact. The consequences of casual sexual relations in the era of birth control/ease of access to contraception are still up for debate. There is no grounded factual evidence indicative modernistic society would fair better under the the constructs of a theocracy and/or with harsh penalisation associated with casual relations. As a matter of fact given the nature of current era theocracies Iād argue the opposite
I wasnāt responding to the question of tolerance, but existence. If homosexuality dooms societies simply by existing, then how have any societies managed to survive for any significant length of time.
the feeling is mutual