Rehabilitation Cycle

Pharma
41

[quote] Brook wrote:
TheRebel22 wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
16 weeks is a long time to be suppressed and will make recovery much more difficult. Why not do two eight weekers separated by adequate time to recover fully? If you do decide to go longer you should look at getting some HCG to keep the testes functioning so they will be at full power to assist your recovery post cycle instead of peanut sized and in need of plumping up and regenerating.

Also, test e is a shorter ester than EQ (5 days vs 7) so why would you inject test e less frequently than EQ? You should FL the test e at 250mg on Day 1 and then 100mg 2x/w. Monday morning - Thursday evening is fine for both Test e and Eq.

Yeah I was questioning that myself… but everything I’ve read said its fine to inject once a week… jesus christ. I feel like I’m doing a lot of research and it all turns out to be wrong lol! Thanks man. I had the right idea with the EQ tho? 900, 300. 300, 300, etc. etc. ? If I did two 8 week cycles how much time should I wait in-between? I was thinking 16 weeks because from what I had read, 12 week cycles should be the min. for EQ, altho what I’ve read has been apparently wrong, lol. And, with the news that I have 2 new herniated discs, I really want to milk the healing power of EQ/var for as long and continuous time as possible.

I’d definitely run some HCG throughout the cycle. Do you inject that into your muscles or what? Should I just do it at the same time monday/friday as the test and EQ? (I know it has to be twice a week/every 4 days)

So we’re looking at:
weeK1: 900EQ/250Test, 300EQ/100Test
week2: 300EQ/100Test, 300EQ/100Test
week3: 300EQ/100Test/250iuHCG, 300EQ/100Test/250iuHCG
…
Week 19: start PCT.

Back to the point in question - do you have specifics on exactly how much AAS will help a herniated disc? I wouldnt have expected very much at all personally… :/[/quote]

I’ve researched some on the effects anavar and EQ have on collagen synthesis - healing/strengthening your tendons and ligaments. There are ligaments around the outside of your discs - I assume making them stronger/healthier would only help. Also, the increased Red blood cell count produced by EQ will help healing anything… that’s a major problem with discs is that they don’t get adequate blood flow or enough water. If I have increased vascularity with a higher RBC count, it will help heal my discs. I do not expect this to work magic or something. I think that with the new rehab regimen I will be doing thanks to BBB’s recommendation of the two books my Tim McGill that I just received, increased collagen synthesis, increased RBC count, and increased vascularity I will have the best chance of healing.

42

[quote]TheRebel22 wrote:
Brook wrote:
TheRebel22 wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
16 weeks is a long time to be suppressed and will make recovery much more difficult. Why not do two eight weekers separated by adequate time to recover fully? If you do decide to go longer you should look at getting some HCG to keep the testes functioning so they will be at full power to assist your recovery post cycle instead of peanut sized and in need of plumping up and regenerating.

Also, test e is a shorter ester than EQ (5 days vs 7) so why would you inject test e less frequently than EQ? You should FL the test e at 250mg on Day 1 and then 100mg 2x/w. Monday morning - Thursday evening is fine for both Test e and Eq.

Yeah I was questioning that myself… but everything I’ve read said its fine to inject once a week… jesus christ. I feel like I’m doing a lot of research and it all turns out to be wrong lol! Thanks man. I had the right idea with the EQ tho? 900, 300. 300, 300, etc. etc. ? If I did two 8 week cycles how much time should I wait in-between? I was thinking 16 weeks because from what I had read, 12 week cycles should be the min. for EQ, altho what I’ve read has been apparently wrong, lol. And, with the news that I have 2 new herniated discs, I really want to milk the healing power of EQ/var for as long and continuous time as possible.

I’d definitely run some HCG throughout the cycle. Do you inject that into your muscles or what? Should I just do it at the same time monday/friday as the test and EQ? (I know it has to be twice a week/every 4 days)

So we’re looking at:
weeK1: 900EQ/250Test, 300EQ/100Test
week2: 300EQ/100Test, 300EQ/100Test
week3: 300EQ/100Test/250iuHCG, 300EQ/100Test/250iuHCG
…
Week 19: start PCT.

Back to the point in question - do you have specifics on exactly how much AAS will help a herniated disc? I wouldnt have expected very much at all personally… :confused:

I’ve researched some on the effects anavar and EQ have on collagen synthesis - healing/strengthening your tendons and ligaments. There are ligaments around the outside of your discs - I assume making them stronger/healthier would only help. Also, the increased Red blood cell count produced by EQ will help healing anything… that’s a major problem with discs is that they don’t get adequate blood flow or enough water. If I have increased vascularity with a higher RBC count, it will help heal my discs. I do not expect this to work magic or something. I think that with the new rehab regimen I will be doing thanks to BBB’s recommendation of the two books my Tim McGill that I just received, increased collagen synthesis, increased RBC count, and increased vascularity I will have the best chance of healing. [/quote]

You are correct that there are ligaments in the spine, but you need to be aware that the tissues you are talking about are a-vascular. They have little to no blood supply irrespective of RBC count… this is one of the reasons they are so slow in healing to begin with, increasing RBC count (all AAS do actually) will not do very much IMPO.

You mentioned that the increased collagen synthesis will help strengthen ligamants etc… true… and this may have positive effects in the long term - but the problem isn’t ligaments and even with the strongest ligaments in the area, the prolapsed disc is still going to dry out and degrade.

The issue isn’t really collagen synthesis - it is that the Nucleus Pulposus of the intervertebral discs has become pushed out of the disc (due to hyper flexion or extension i assume). This would not be too bad if it was just a bulging disc, manipulation through stretching, massage, movement and exercise can push the pulposus back into the disc - but if it is prolapsed it is akin to getting toothpaste back in the tube.

I am sure you know all this - and i think you are correct that stronger connective tissues can help - but i want to warn you that the issue itself will not be changed, and not to expect much from the inclusion of AAS.

You need to strengthen the muscles in the area, but at the end of the day - if or when the pulposus dries out, you will have the Annulus Fibrosus degrade to a hard flat disc, with no compression/suspension effect - which like it or not will cause issue forever (AFAIK).
As mentioned, rehab techniques will help you - in strengthening the connective tissues, but ligaments are there to stop dislocation. Your issue is one of 2 vertebrae becoming closer due to reduced space between them, from the previously herniated Intervertebral Disc, which dried out and flattened, and this will lead to friction of the spinous processes, leading to Osteophyte(sp?) formation and osteo arthritic conditions…

This is my understanding of the issue at least… You wont hurt the injury by adding the cycle you suggest, but your results may be severely lacking.
As for HGH - this may be altogether different - and if i could enlist the help of one person, i’d ask BBB :wink:

Brook

43

Yeah, I did basically know all that Brook, but thanks for the detailed and informative post. Basically, I realize that AAS is not going to heal my problem, but I am really grasping for any straw I can get. If an AAS cycle won’t hurt my disc, but will help keep me feeling good, motivated, and getting in all around better shape physically and mentally… I want to do it.

As you may have detected from my previous posts I am fairly distraught after 4 years of this shit. My parents forced me back into school early this past term even though I wasn’t healthy; I worked my ass off and despite barely being able to read, made the Dean’s List.

Then I’ve been focused and working out every day, feeling optimistic for really the first time ever in my life. I’m a very pessimistic person naturally (childhood abuse, depression, etc). Now, I get the news that I now have two herniated discs, which pretty much crushed me and I’ve been spiraling the past few days since that news.

I am not expecting to come out of this with no herniated discs. My goal is just to keep myself going forward, fix my eyes, look good, feel good, and not spiral into even more severe drug abuse. If I can do that, this cycle will be a complete success.

The point for now is just to keep striving and to give myself a mental edge - even if its just false hope… I’m very good at double-think/manipulating my thoughts. I won’t be disappointed at the end of the cycle if I still have my herniated discs, in fact if I expect them to still be there.

However, I’m trying NOT to say that. You see what I’m saying? I’m trying to THINK positive, to THINK that I’m going to be healed, to keep the optimism that I’ve just recently developed throughout the next several months. Now, you may ask if at the end of the cycle when my problem probably isn’t fixed, and I lose the ‘high’ of the steroids and I crash into an even deeper emotional hole, what’s going to happen?

I’ll deal with that when it comes, but like I said… my REAL expectations are not going to be crushed, I’m just saying/forcing myself to think that I am going to be healed… I figure that gives me the best chance.

I know that’s not really a good reason to do an AAS cycle, but I really just need something… I really appreciate everyone’s help and in-depth responses on this thread. Dynamo, BBB, Brook, you guys have been great. It’s really helped me a lot, and I am indebted to you. I’ll keep this thread updated with my progress and results. Once again… thanks so much!

44

I see exactly what you are saying, and i understand more than you may know.

I wish you every luck on your recovery and well being, and i hope AAS are helpful.

They should be IMO - be warned, that depression can be worsened when coming off them - even successfully… just always remember you can/will go back on after a short time off (min 6 weeks between PCT and next cycle IMO)

B

45

Godspeed Rebel. Anything is possible if you set your mind to it. Just look at Hussayn’s contest prep thread in the performance Photos forum. When he first appeared here, he was ridiculed. He was just a scrawny kid then…

46

Ordered my EQ and should have it in on Wed. Going to start on Thursday. I’m going to do 600EQ/200TestE every week like we discussed. I was writing out my whole cycle and I’m just going to incorporate the EQ/Test into what I’ve been doing. This is my 3rd week of 300Deca/500TestE., so I’m just going to stop the Deca, decrease the Test, add EQ and continue on for a 16 cycle in whole (including the past 3 weeks). I start my PCT week 20, as you posted above, right? I’m going to have Nolvadex; I do 40mg/d for 2 weeks and then 20mg/d for 2 weeks? Do I need to split up the doses for the 40mg portion into morning/night?

I’m going to order some HCG very soon and will probably start not this week, but next week. I will be doing 250iu HCG E/O day weeks 4-20 right? Right up until I start the Nolvadex or how should I do the HCG once I stop the EQ/Test? I’m starting to regain my focus… I’ve been really really thrown off, but sitting here and writing all this out and starting to build my rehabilitation program from the books BBB recommended has helped me regain focus.

47

For the 40mg/d Nolva weeks you can take 20mg in morning and 20mg in afternoon. According to KSman it doesn’t make a lot of difference either way (40mg at once or split 20mg 2x/d).

Run the HCG until your last inject of EQ & Test.

48

Thanks Dynamo.

BBB, I got both the books and have just finished reading the Low Back Disorders one. I am getting to the ‘big 3’ - the curl up, the side bridge, and the bird dog. lol for some reason those just sound funny.

Ok, with the curl up… you are really only doing like a ‘crunch’, right? Barely elevating your shoulders off the ground (obviously with your neck kept completely stable)? Do you switch which leg is bent between sets or what’s the deal with that? You hold this for 6-8 seconds for how many reps?

The Side-Bridge… I’m having a hard time following the ‘intermediate’ and ‘beginner’ versions of this… I see in the ‘advanced’ one where you start on your ‘bows and toes’ and then rotate your torso and arm up until you can place your arm on your hip so that its 90degree or vertical? Then you go back to the starting bows and toes and rotate to the other side for 1 total rep? How many seconds do you hold the end position? None?

Ok I tried the beginner version… and I’m really not understanding it… you start on your elbow and knees lying sideways elevated, with the opposite arm pushing on the stabilizing arm’s shoulder for support. You hold this for 6-8 seconds and roll your whole body over to the other side and hold for 1 rep? Or do you collapse and repeat on that same side?

For the advanced Bird Dog the only difference is that instead of coming to a complete rest you just do the ‘sweep’ and then back out to full extension and hold for 6-8 seconds?

EDIT
I like what I’m doing so far… they looked so easy in the book lol, but it feels like I’m doing them right because they’re fucking hard… I have a weak core (obviously… lol). Damn.

49

this thread has been very helpful to me. i have had an extruded disc at l5 s1… and obviously lumbar DDD. i have always been courious about doing another cycle. the last time i did one i blew this disc out squating… was always scared to do another cycle since then. but i was wondering what a cycle of test and deca would do as far as strengthening and recovery from training without putting on a lot of mass to avoid more daily spinal compression… it obviously doesnt help that im 6’8 but i definitely want to take advantage of what i can. AAS, hgc or not

50

sorry bbb for pm you so much and i meant a cycle of test 250 2x week and dianabol not deca

51

Ok update: My back program that BBB hooked me up with has worked WONDERFULLY. This whole cycle has been EXCELLENT. I’ve pretty much neutralized my 3 herniated discs and feel free to work out the rest of my body for the first time in years. My cycle ends the 2nd week of september.

Recently, I’ve had a slew of problems and a mental breakdown and my parents want me to go to rehab, so I’m going to go because I’m really not stable at all and I don’t want to take this term of school because my eyes still aren’t better. I might go on Monday. I’m going to try and talk the facility into letting me take the nolvadex while I’m there as planned, I mean the cycle has gone 13 weeks and I’m happy with the results, so I don’t have a problem taking the physical break rehab will mean. What happens if I can’t get them into letting take the nolvadex?

I’m going to keep doing my exercises everyday and work out while I’m there and maintain the core stability exercises I’ve been doing, but I won’t be able to do chin-ups. What are my gains losses going to like and what are some side effects that might occur with the estrogen build up? any input will be greatly appreciated.

52

So are you saying you will be able to train in rehab? Is that drug abuse rehab?

53

yeah drug rehab. after 3 weeks i’ll have access to a gym. Should I expect any problems if I can’t take my nolvadex?

54

It just takes longer to recover when you don’t use stuff… thats all :wink:

55

Are you going to quit (if you haven’t already quit) recreational drugs cold turkey?