Recovery From a Year Long Blast/Cruise/TRT

clenone · September 27, 2014, 5:58pm

Sup guys, I’ve decided to come off all aas for awhile… I’ve been on trt for about a year and have had a few blasts during that time. I’ve been on 100mg test cyp per week for the last 40 days, prior to that I was on 500 test for about 2 months. I’ve gathered a lot of info on a very comprehensive PCT and taken info from two different protocols, Cashout’s Exit Strategy and Power PCT. This is what I have come up with so far

Week 1:
HCG 2000IU E3D
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 2:
HCG 2000IU E3D
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 3:
HCG 2000IU only on the 16th day
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 4:
Get blood test (test, free test, e2, lh, fsh)
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 100mg ED

Week 5:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 100mg ED

Week 6:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED

Week 7:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED

Week 8:
nolva 20mg ED

Week 9:
nolva 20mg ED

Week 10:
Get bloods (test, free test, SHBG, e2, lh, fsh)

Throughout I would use 8000IU vitamin D, and 20mg zinc daily

Any advice or input would be much appreciated

TaiChiChuan · September 28, 2014, 1:01am

What makes you think you have to do a PCT? You haven’t cycling, you’ve been constantly presumably without a gap. Dude, I was on a 3 year cruise which was interrupted by some asshole urology doctor. He discovered that I was on steroids while going over my blood test with me. He cited that sharing needles in the locker room will lead to AIDS and that steroids can cause all kinds of trouble.

I’ve been on steroids using doses as high as 10g. a month and I’m suppose to be in trouble? My trouble began with him telling me to stop the “juice” and let my Test drop to its proper level and then start on TRT. 3 months of agony to let it drop from >1500ng/dl to 193ng/dl and no PCT! Placed on TRT at a dose of 600mg. a month. Weak, very weak for me.

So I add Test E from a source and did this until Jan., 2014 whereupon the doctor discontinued my TRT because my Test was consistently high at every blood test. Now I’ve been informed by my Firm that this doctor wants to see me because of my continued high TEST levels.

I won’t make the appointment, but I will stop injecting for a while to take a much needed break of 9 years. I don’t think a PCT will be necessary. I’ll continue with my other supplements as usual and after 3 months start using oral steroids for a few cycles. Something I’ve never tried or done. I don’t think a man of 59 should worry about PCT when I never cycled.

DoctorJekyll · September 28, 2014, 2:19am

Looks pretty good, Im coming off a 4 month cycle. My plan is pretty much the exact with a couple tweaks and no clomid.

The_German1 · September 28, 2014, 11:13am

How old are you?

cycobushmaster · September 28, 2014, 6:26pm

[quote]clenone wrote:
Sup guys, I’ve decided to come off all aas for awhile… I’ve been on trt for about a year and have had a few blasts during that time. I’ve been on 100mg test cyp per week for the last 40 days, prior to that I was on 500 test for about 2 months. I’ve gathered a lot of info on a very comprehensive PCT and taken info from two different protocols, Cashout’s Exit Strategy and Power PCT. This is what I have come up with so far

Week 1:
HCG 2000IU E3D
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 2:
HCG 2000IU E3D
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 3:
HCG 2000IU only on the 16th day
Aromasin 12.5mg eod

Week 4:
Get blood test (test, free test, e2, lh, fsh)
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 100mg ED

Week 5:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 100mg ED

Week 6:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED

Week 7:
nolva 20mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED

Week 8:
nolva 20mg ED

Week 9:
nolva 20mg ED

Week 10:
Get bloods (test, free test, SHBG, e2, lh, fsh)

Throughout I would use 8000IU vitamin D, and 20mg zinc daily

Any advice or input would be much appreciated[/quote]

when you say you were on TRT, did you use test only or HCG as well?

personally, i wouldn’t suggest that high of doses of HCG… this can cause your testes to start producing again, but that doesn’t mean the rest of the HPTA is recovered.

i’d go closer to 500 IU EOD for 3 weeks (along with Aromasin), and then transition to toremifene (60 mg/day) for up to 3 months…

as far as high doses of clomid, well, there’s not much science beyond 25-50 mg/day. but there is evidence that it can decrease responsiveness to GnRH. i normally suggest Nolva, but that’s only effective for about 8 weeks, whereas Tore works up to 12 weeks…

therajraj · September 28, 2014, 6:37pm

no advice to offer but please let us know how it goes!

I’m curious as to how hard it will be for you to restart your natural production after a year of cruising

eatliftsleep · September 28, 2014, 10:45pm

[quote]TaiChiChuan wrote:
What makes you think you have to do a PCT? You haven’t cycling, you’ve been constantly presumably without a gap. Dude, I was on a 3 year cruise which was interrupted by some asshole urology doctor. He discovered that I was on steroids while going over my blood test with me. He cited that sharing needles in the locker room will lead to AIDS and that steroids can cause all kinds of trouble.

I’ve been on steroids using doses as high as 10g. a month and I’m suppose to be in trouble? My trouble began with him telling me to stop the “juice” and let my Test drop to its proper level and then start on TRT. 3 months of agony to let it drop from >1500ng/dl to 193ng/dl and no PCT! Placed on TRT at a dose of 600mg. a month. Weak, very weak for me.

So I add Test E from a source and did this until Jan., 2014 whereupon the doctor discontinued my TRT because my Test was consistently high at every blood test. Now I’ve been informed by my Firm that this doctor wants to see me because of my continued high TEST levels.

I won’t make the appointment, but I will stop injecting for a while to take a much needed break of 9 years. I don’t think a PCT will be necessary. I’ll continue with my other supplements as usual and after 3 months start using oral steroids for a few cycles. Something I’ve never tried or done. I don’t think a man of 59 should worry about PCT when I never cycled. [/quote]

Dude… you are completely clueless, that’s all i can say… wow

dt79 · September 29, 2014, 6:59am

[quote]TaiChiChuan wrote:
What makes you think you have to do a PCT? You haven’t cycling, you’ve been constantly presumably without a gap. Dude, I was on a 3 year cruise which was interrupted by some asshole urology doctor. He discovered that I was on steroids while going over my blood test with me. He cited that sharing needles in the locker room will lead to AIDS and that steroids can cause all kinds of trouble.

I’ve been on steroids using doses as high as 10g. a month and I’m suppose to be in trouble? My trouble began with him telling me to stop the “juice” and let my Test drop to its proper level and then start on TRT. 3 months of agony to let it drop from >1500ng/dl to 193ng/dl and no PCT! Placed on TRT at a dose of 600mg. a month. Weak, very weak for me.

So I add Test E from a source and did this until Jan., 2014 whereupon the doctor discontinued my TRT because my Test was consistently high at every blood test. Now I’ve been informed by my Firm that this doctor wants to see me because of my continued high TEST levels.

I won’t make the appointment, but I will stop injecting for a while to take a much needed break of 9 years. I don’t think a PCT will be necessary. I’ll continue with my other supplements as usual and after 3 months start using oral steroids for a few cycles. Something I’ve never tried or done. I don’t think a man of 59 should worry about PCT when I never cycled. [/quote]

HAHAHA HAHA

clenone · October 27, 2014, 10:41pm

Oh hey guys. I totally forgot about this thread. Well I’m on day 17 off AAS and feel pretty shitty. I’ve done my second hCG shot at 2000IU and my nuts dropped and have been sore for the last few days. Meaning my hCG is legit and seems to be working. I used hCG at 250IU 2x a week for 3 weeks on my TRT before I came off, I should have blasted like one user mentioned but I didn’t see his post until now. Oops.

At the moment I am mildy depressed, moderately anxious, and feel “off”.

I have lowered the clomid dose to 25mg ed, as after doing research I came to the conclusion that anything more than that will have a diminishing return with a dramatic increase in side effects.

I will post my blood tests as soon as I get them, I am getting one after my 16 days on hCG, and another following completion of PCT.

clenone · October 27, 2014, 10:46pm

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.

TheTaskmaster · October 28, 2014, 2:48am

[quote]clenone wrote:

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.
[/quote]

I don’t understand these massive dosages of HCG or why you would want your nuts to get substantially larger or sore. The whole purpose is just to prevent/reverse atrophy and resume production of natural testosterone. I could see overdosing actually lead to further suppression. 250iu EOD + 0.25mg adex ED seemed most reasonable to me. And it worked by my experience, because I actually continued to make gains while on HCG and even during PCT. No weight loss and some actual strength gains in certain lifts. Only nolva for pct too, and that was after deca.

Some might say 250iu is too low but someone posted recently that 250iu is actually equivalent to the bodys natural production levels. I’m hoping they post a reference to that study soon

clenone · October 28, 2014, 3:32am

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.
[/quote]

I don’t understand these massive dosages of HCG or why you would want your nuts to get substantially larger or sore. The whole purpose is just to prevent/reverse atrophy and resume production of natural testosterone. I could see overdosing actually lead to further suppression. 250iu EOD + 0.25mg adex ED seemed most reasonable to me. And it worked by my experience, because I actually continued to make gains while on HCG and even during PCT. No weight loss and some actual strength gains in certain lifts. Only nolva for pct too, and that was after deca.

Some might say 250iu is too low but someone posted recently that 250iu is actually equivalent to the bodys natural production levels. I’m hoping they post a reference to that study soon[/quote]

Well both the Power PCT and Cashout’s exit strategy(Two protocols with tons of success with hpta restoration after years of staying on aas) use 2000IU hCG, and from the research I’ve done this was the right dose. Also I would never use arimidex on a pct as estrogen rebound is the LAST thing you would ever want while trying to return to homeostasis. It sounds like you are speaking from opinion as well. And my nuts are raisins from a year of being on aas. Getting sore and getting bigger is a GOOD thing. That means they are starting to work again, much like when they get sore and shrink during long cycles. HCG would be suppressive like you say, but that is where the SERMS come in.

cycobushmaster · October 28, 2014, 2:19pm

[quote]clenone wrote:

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.
[/quote]

I don’t understand these massive dosages of HCG or why you would want your nuts to get substantially larger or sore. The whole purpose is just to prevent/reverse atrophy and resume production of natural testosterone. I could see overdosing actually lead to further suppression. 250iu EOD + 0.25mg adex ED seemed most reasonable to me. And it worked by my experience, because I actually continued to make gains while on HCG and even during PCT. No weight loss and some actual strength gains in certain lifts. Only nolva for pct too, and that was after deca.

Some might say 250iu is too low but someone posted recently that 250iu is actually equivalent to the bodys natural production levels. I’m hoping they post a reference to that study soon[/quote]

Well both the Power PCT and Cashout’s exit strategy(Two protocols with tons of success with hpta restoration after years of staying on aas) use 2000IU hCG, and from the research I’ve done this was the right dose. Also I would never use arimidex on a pct as estrogen rebound is the LAST thing you would ever want while trying to return to homeostasis. It sounds like you are speaking from opinion as well. And my nuts are raisins from a year of being on aas. Getting sore and getting bigger is a GOOD thing. That means they are starting to work again, much like when they get sore and shrink during long cycles. HCG would be suppressive like you say, but that is where the SERMS come in.
[/quote]

uhm, why are you adamant that using an AI is a bad idea for PCT?

i’m gonna give you a hint here: high estrogen is actually more suppressive (about 200-fold more suppressive!) than high testosterone levels… and of course, SERMs and HCG actually raise estrogen levels.

clenone · October 28, 2014, 2:59pm

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.
[/quote]

I don’t understand these massive dosages of HCG or why you would want your nuts to get substantially larger or sore. The whole purpose is just to prevent/reverse atrophy and resume production of natural testosterone. I could see overdosing actually lead to further suppression. 250iu EOD + 0.25mg adex ED seemed most reasonable to me. And it worked by my experience, because I actually continued to make gains while on HCG and even during PCT. No weight loss and some actual strength gains in certain lifts. Only nolva for pct too, and that was after deca.

Some might say 250iu is too low but someone posted recently that 250iu is actually equivalent to the bodys natural production levels. I’m hoping they post a reference to that study soon[/quote]

Well both the Power PCT and Cashout’s exit strategy(Two protocols with tons of success with hpta restoration after years of staying on aas) use 2000IU hCG, and from the research I’ve done this was the right dose. Also I would never use arimidex on a pct as estrogen rebound is the LAST thing you would ever want while trying to return to homeostasis. It sounds like you are speaking from opinion as well. And my nuts are raisins from a year of being on aas. Getting sore and getting bigger is a GOOD thing. That means they are starting to work again, much like when they get sore and shrink during long cycles. HCG would be suppressive like you say, but that is where the SERMS come in.
[/quote]

uhm, why are you adamant that using an AI is a bad idea for PCT?

i’m gonna give you a hint here: high estrogen is actually more suppressive (about 200-fold more suppressive!) than high testosterone levels… and of course, SERMs and HCG actually raise estrogen levels.[/quote]

I said that ARIMIDEX is a bad idea for PCT, which it is. AROMASIN is a good idea, as there is no rebound effect, and it can be used with nolvadex, and raises igf-1. Did you read the OP?

cycobushmaster · October 28, 2014, 3:46pm

[quote]clenone wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:

[quote]clenone wrote:

Thanks for the response. I did lower clomid to 25mg, and my pharm source does not have torem, so I had to get clomid and nolva. Also, I tried 500IU eod on cycle and my balls did not get any bigger or sore. This could either mean I needed a higher dose to respond, or my source was just underdosed.
[/quote]

I don’t understand these massive dosages of HCG or why you would want your nuts to get substantially larger or sore. The whole purpose is just to prevent/reverse atrophy and resume production of natural testosterone. I could see overdosing actually lead to further suppression. 250iu EOD + 0.25mg adex ED seemed most reasonable to me. And it worked by my experience, because I actually continued to make gains while on HCG and even during PCT. No weight loss and some actual strength gains in certain lifts. Only nolva for pct too, and that was after deca.

Some might say 250iu is too low but someone posted recently that 250iu is actually equivalent to the bodys natural production levels. I’m hoping they post a reference to that study soon[/quote]

Well both the Power PCT and Cashout’s exit strategy(Two protocols with tons of success with hpta restoration after years of staying on aas) use 2000IU hCG, and from the research I’ve done this was the right dose. Also I would never use arimidex on a pct as estrogen rebound is the LAST thing you would ever want while trying to return to homeostasis. It sounds like you are speaking from opinion as well. And my nuts are raisins from a year of being on aas. Getting sore and getting bigger is a GOOD thing. That means they are starting to work again, much like when they get sore and shrink during long cycles. HCG would be suppressive like you say, but that is where the SERMS come in.
[/quote]

uhm, why are you adamant that using an AI is a bad idea for PCT?

i’m gonna give you a hint here: high estrogen is actually more suppressive (about 200-fold more suppressive!) than high testosterone levels… and of course, SERMs and HCG actually raise estrogen levels.[/quote]

I said that ARIMIDEX is a bad idea for PCT, which it is. AROMASIN is a good idea, as there is no rebound effect, and it can be used with nolvadex, and raises igf-1. Did you read the OP?
[/quote]

i agree that aromasin is a better choice, but i don’t necessarily think a-dex is a bad choice, either.

if you have estrogen rebound when you stop your AI, then the obvious issue is that the AI was stopped too soon, or simply could have been tapered down.

anyway, i don’t think we are disagreeing, but splitting hairs on solutions for PCT

flipcollar · October 28, 2014, 7:14pm

[quote]TaiChiChuan wrote:
What makes you think you have to do a PCT? You haven’t cycling, you’ve been constantly presumably without a gap. Dude, I was on a 3 year cruise which was interrupted by some asshole urology doctor. He discovered that I was on steroids while going over my blood test with me. He cited that sharing needles in the locker room will lead to AIDS and that steroids can cause all kinds of trouble.

I’ve been on steroids using doses as high as 10g. a month and I’m suppose to be in trouble? My trouble began with him telling me to stop the “juice” and let my Test drop to its proper level and then start on TRT. 3 months of agony to let it drop from >1500ng/dl to 193ng/dl and no PCT! Placed on TRT at a dose of 600mg. a month. Weak, very weak for me.

So I add Test E from a source and did this until Jan., 2014 whereupon the doctor discontinued my TRT because my Test was consistently high at every blood test. Now I’ve been informed by my Firm that this doctor wants to see me because of my continued high TEST levels.

I won’t make the appointment, but I will stop injecting for a while to take a much needed break of 9 years. I don’t think a PCT will be necessary. I’ll continue with my other supplements as usual and after 3 months start using oral steroids for a few cycles. Something I’ve never tried or done. I don’t think a man of 59 should worry about PCT when I never cycled. [/quote]

I love every word of this post. Keep coming back!

clenone · October 28, 2014, 10:13pm