Recent Thoughts

Off Topic
121

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
My hope is that, instead of deleting or moderating this post, someone up there grows a set and says, “hey, what we’re doing isn’t working. Let’s go back and do what we KNOW we’re good at: being unapologetically hardcore”. That would kick ass, boost traffic, improve the site’s reputation, and ultimately sell more supplements which is what they are here to do.[/quote]

While I agree with most of your post, you lost me here.

If they are looking to just run their business, then what they are doing is absolutely working. I am entirely certain of that, just like I am entirely certain that the regular forum poster is very likely NOT a reflection of the average T-Nation customer.

I can see going into various supplement-specific logs that the average Level 4 on this site has minimal development or experience (not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that; many are relatively new to the game). I can see that they, by and large, do not participate much, if at all, beyond their own little support group(s).

I recall this one thread a little while back where various “regular” posters were hating on the LiveSpill feature, talking about how useless it was, etc… only to have a mod (I think) chime in saying that the LiveSpills were by far one of the most popular features of the site. Imagine my surprise, having skimmed skimmed, oh, a handful at most since they began.

I recall numerous prolific SAMA posters without a single supplement purchase attributed to their name. I recall that fiasco a little while back in which several posters humiliated themselves, made that forum a laughing stock and forced the “someone up there” to give the green light on amputating that gangrenous limb just to cover this site’s ass from that point on (and, as an ancillary benefit, to keep the rest of this site from coming down with a lethal case of the cyber crotch rot). I can only imagine the difficulty in even ATTEMPTING to “downplay” a section of the site where, once upon a time, an ongoing saga about “Ass Worshiping” moderately-obese women CRUSHED 99% of the lifting/nutrition related threads in views.

Putting it this way: I can’t recall ever going to any website for a purpose beyond jacking off and being genuinely impressed with the fact that the serious information I logged in for ALSO came with a side order of low-grade T&A. And, to be honest, I can’t recall too many people who were both excellent “on topic” posters and highly vocal enthusiasts of taint shaving or whatever.

I recall the reasons why various posters decided to leave… while some are a mystery (and for those, I don’t pretend to know better than the men behind the curtain who showed those posters where the door was), for many of the others, it wasn’t just because of this site being “less hardcore” or a lack of tit pics.

While the list goes on, I DO agree that the trolling was generally superior, that TC should consider writing a little more and that one should, at the very least, be able to make their way off the shit list to post freely at some point. I don’t care about “censorship” as much as I care about being able to make a post in a lifting/nutrition related discussion and have it appear before the conversation has moved 2-3 pages down the road.

I also feel that the causative agents of many inflammatory events across the forum will be addressed to some degree, though FTR I do not believe that THAT nonsense can be blamed on any one poster leaving (the opposite, though…), the removal of SAMA or anything else resulting from Biotest’s recent decisions.

123

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
My hope is that, instead of deleting or moderating this post, someone up there grows a set and says, “hey, what we’re doing isn’t working. Let’s go back and do what we KNOW we’re good at: being unapologetically hardcore”. That would kick ass, boost traffic, improve the site’s reputation, and ultimately sell more supplements which is what they are here to do.[/quote]

While I agree with most of your post, you lost me here.

If they are looking to just run their business, then what they are doing is absolutely working. I am entirely certain of that, just like I am entirely certain that the regular forum poster is very likely NOT a reflection of the average T-Nation customer.

I can see going into various supplement-specific logs that the average Level 4 on this site has minimal development or experience (not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that; many are relatively new to the game). I can see that they, by and large, do not participate much, if at all, beyond their own little support group(s).

I recall this one thread a little while back where various “regular” posters were hating on the LiveSpill feature, talking about how useless it was, etc… only to have a mod (I think) chime in saying that the LiveSpills were by far one of the most popular features of the site. Imagine my surprise, having skimmed skimmed, oh, a handful at most since they began.

I recall numerous prolific SAMA posters without a single supplement purchase attributed to their name. I recall that fiasco a little while back in which several posters humiliated themselves, made that forum a laughing stock and forced the “someone up there” to give the green light on amputating that gangrenous limb just to cover this site’s ass from that point on (and, as an ancillary benefit, to keep the rest of this site from coming down with a lethal case of the cyber crotch rot). I can only imagine the difficulty in even ATTEMPTING to “downplay” a section of the site where, once upon a time, an ongoing saga about “Ass Worshiping” moderately-obese women CRUSHED 99% of the lifting/nutrition related threads in views.

Putting it this way: I can’t recall ever going to any website for a purpose beyond jacking off and being genuinely impressed with the fact that the serious information I logged in for ALSO came with a side order of low-grade T&A. And, to be honest, I can’t recall too many people who were both excellent “on topic” posters and highly vocal enthusiasts of taint shaving or whatever.

I recall the reasons why various posters decided to leave… while some are a mystery (and for those, I don’t pretend to know better than the men behind the curtain who showed those posters where the door was), for many of the others, it wasn’t just because of this site being “less hardcore” or a lack of tit pics.

While the list goes on, I DO agree that the trolling was generally superior, that TC should consider writing a little more and that one should, at the very least, be able to make their way off the shit list to post freely at some point. I don’t care about “censorship” as much as I care about being able to make a post in a lifting/nutrition related discussion and have it appear before the conversation has moved 2-3 pages down the road.

I also feel that the causative agents of many inflammatory events across the forum will be addressed to some degree, though FTR I do not believe that THAT nonsense can be blamed on any one poster leaving (the opposite, though…), the removal of SAMA or anything else resulting from Biotest’s recent decisions.[/quote]

It kinda lost ME there too. But I was trying to stay positive and get my post past the mods. I don’t pretend to know the formula for supplement success, only that at one point this site had a certain “je ne se quais” that was pretty cool. It’s lost that. Now perhaps it’s because they’ve followed the lead of MOST gyms in the industry and switched their focus to the want’s, needs and whims of the average every day man who has a gym membership, but doesn’t go very often and sees little results, and not the hard core guys. That would explain why the more experienced people would go away. But I believe the pendulum has swung too far and belongs somewhere in the middle.

Regarding SAMA, I’m not going to comment further on that, lest I get banned, but I will say that there were PLENTY of posters who were avid lifters (or “on topic” posters) as well as enjoying the topics brought up there. I know for a fact because I used to have ten PM’s a day from people asking me for advice on certain topics, and it was the same with several other of the “godfathers of SAMA”.

Personally, I can count the number of times I posted in the “t-vixen” thread on one hand because I thought it was kinda stupid, and I can see how that bullshit kinda spiraled out of control. I can also see how it sucked up a lot of moderator resources due to the constant policing of accidental (or on purpose) “nip slips”.

But there was a very easy solution to that problem: remove the ability to post pics in SAMA and keep it to a DISCUSSION of sex and the male animal. That would have solved most if not all of the issues on that sub-forum.

124

I always respect your contributions and sense of self control in a debate. I also admire how you are one of the more advanced members who doesn’t feel the need to call anyone out personally but stay to the heart of the matter.

You are one of the few on this site that came out on the other side smelling like a rose.

Stu is the Andy Dufresne of T-Nation.

125

I hear what you’re saying, man… I suppose I just feel that if the changes put in place weren’t doing what they were intended to do, some kind of course correction would have been implemented since then.

I don’t think anyone would complain if you dropped some wisdom in GAL, though.

126

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
But there was a very easy solution to that problem: remove the ability to post pics in SAMA and keep it to a DISCUSSION of sex and the male animal.[/quote]

Just reread this and my initial reaction is that it’s not a bad idea.

Well played.

127

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
But there was a very easy solution to that problem: remove the ability to post pics in SAMA and keep it to a DISCUSSION of sex and the male animal.[/quote]

Just reread this and my initial reaction is that it’s not a bad idea.

Well played.[/quote]

I agree.

I don’t particularly mourn the loss of SAMA, though I enjoyed it and learned a great deal there. But there was something very tawdry about it, and I can understand Biotest’s discomfort with it. Eliminating pics would go a long way toward remedying that.

For what it’s worth, I have never received anything offensive through PMs. No come-ons, no dick pics, nothing unsavory whatsoever, or even overtly sexual. Just the occasional polite, friendly note.

128

I understand why SAMA went away. But the banning (and associated optional departure) of so many of the strong, sassy women that were a pillar of this site (in my opinion) has just been a terrible loss.

Also, the lack of civility in so many threads is pretty pathetic. Instead of debating topics to broaden the mind, the goal is merely to preach to the choir and insult those who have a differing perspective. And the tolerance for misogyny is pretty bad here. Which strikes me as so odd on a website geared toward strength. I would think men would appreciate strong, independent-thinking women who are moving iron with real confidence. But that just isn’t the case with so many of the vocal contributors.

There. I’ve said my peace. Let the tomatoes fly.

129

Stu - your threads and presence in these forums has been a bright spot for anyone who’s really wanted to learn something about the art and science of weight training. Your even keeled nature and posts about your training ideas and experiences has been one constant that has kept me logging in.

The latest round of shitstorm threads can be boiled down to just a few posters who just go at each other constantly clutters up threads. There’s a lot of good stuff in between. The thing about TN training forums is when it’s bad, it’s awful, but when it’s good, it’s GREAT. Just like in music, some of the best moments are the decisions not to play (or type) and just let it ride.

This too shall pass.

I think the name of the BSL forum itself has enabled posters to take a pedestal. Just like “Bodybuilding” is self-explanatory and has taken a more competition oriented tone (thankfully), why can’t there just be a “Training” forum?

I think the hands off approach to moderation is great. The moderators give a lot of leeway to posters who come in and discuss other company’s products. They rightfully (IMO) moderate the posts the degrade the Biotest brand (ie. beyond reasonable discussion), but sometimes I wish they’d step in when the topics go personal. Nip it in the bud. Put posters in the cooler for a week if they can’t keep it civil. “GAL” forum is for shit. Let training forums be about training. We can disagree, but beyond that it becomes tedious.

Reigniting the TCAlpha threads would be a welcome change and mitigate some of the noise.

130

I must have missed something as usual, but when I see Matt xl, SteelyD, and Stu talking in this manner it worries me. I don’t post much in BBing threads, because it’s not where my interests lay. So if there’s one poster who’s ruining this site, I’ve missed it. I’ve been kicking around here for the better part of ten years, and learned much from all three of these guys, I miss Push harder, meat, and Alpha like everyone else. This site is a part of my life, I’m a PLer, and a commercial gym owner.

I come here to learn and be able to turn around and give advice to my members on issues outside my field of knowledge. I try to keep my posts to things that I’ve had direct experience with. If I don’t know, I won’t post, just read and learn. I’ve been a strength coach, and competitive PLer for 2 1/2 decades, and still don’t claim to know much about nutrition, or BBing. It annoys me when every kid with a weight belt seems to know it all, and wants to argue over every stupid little thing. I try to avoid these situations. There are things that have changed here recently, that have led to this site loosing some of it’s hard core stature.

So if Stu ends up becoming some sort of sounding board for the management about these forms, so be it, good idea. Lifting is a journey, with a lot of ups and downs, and so I guess it makes sense that a site dedicated to lifting, would go through the same fazes. This is a great site, lets not take it for granted. Goodluck Stu!

131

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
I understand why SAMA went away. But the banning (and associated optional departure) of so many of the strong, sassy women that were a pillar of this site (in my opinion) has just been a terrible loss.

Also, the lack of civility in so many threads is pretty pathetic. Instead of debating topics to broaden the mind, the goal is merely to preach to the choir and insult those who have a differing perspective. And the tolerance for misogyny is pretty bad here. Which strikes me as so odd on a website geared toward strength. I would think men would appreciate strong, independent-thinking women who are moving iron with real confidence. But that just isn’t the case with so many of the vocal contributors.

There. I’ve said my peace. Let the tomatoes fly.[/quote]

Interesting take. I didn’t pay much attention to SAMA, but there were, from what I recall, some avid weightlifters among the banned crew of women. It’s unfortunate that it played out that way, but I would hazard to guess they were banned for being central figures in the softcore porn turn the site was taking. The associated men were also banned, but they were generally the kind of people that only posted in SAMA. That’s just how it worked out.

I’m not sure I interpret the misogyny here the same as you, though. I don’t think there’s any question it’s bad from certain members, but again, they post almost exclusively in PWI and GAL, so I wouldn’t concern myself too much with them, anyway. They are dogs that come here to claim scraps from the big boys and nothing more.

132

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I’m not sure I interpret the misogyny here the same as you, though. I don’t think there’s any question it’s bad from certain members, but again, they post almost exclusively in PWI and GAL,
[/quote]
You’re absolutely right. The PLers and guys in the O35 crowd are awesome.

133

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

  1. We need to get the Alpha Cell up and kicking again… or even roundtable questions.
    [/quote]

That I would very much like to see.

And I would like the Unmentionable, dun, dun, duuuuuun, to be a part of it.

If there are disagrements on how to go about it, make it official so that we get to see where you disagree, why you disagree and how it fits into your overall regimen.

Pretty please? [/quote]

If memory serves, you were never admitted to Alpha…[/quote]

So what?

You think I have anything to add what someone like Stu might say?

No, I want people who seriously know their stuff to have a go at it.

I know when to shut up and listen.

134

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
I understand why SAMA went away. But the banning (and associated optional departure) of so many of the strong, sassy women that were a pillar of this site (in my opinion) has just been a terrible loss.

Also, the lack of civility in so many threads is pretty pathetic. Instead of debating topics to broaden the mind, the goal is merely to preach to the choir and insult those who have a differing perspective. And the tolerance for misogyny is pretty bad here. Which strikes me as so odd on a website geared toward strength. I would think men would appreciate strong, independent-thinking women who are moving iron with real confidence. But that just isn’t the case with so many of the vocal contributors.

There. I’ve said my peace. Let the tomatoes fly.[/quote]

You know what is one definition of misoginy?

Its when a man sees women as they see themselves.

There is a lot of truth to that.

Since it is basically me you are talking about, I will say that there are a lot of women who keep their darker sides in check, but those that dont have a whole society to back them up.

If pointing that out makes me a woman hater so be it, but the truth is, my view of women is probably closer to yours than 90% of all mens, I just dont like to be on the receiving end of the propping up measures.

135

I am a terribly misogynyst.

I cant even seem to spell it right.

136

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I’m not sure I interpret the misogyny here the same as you, though. I don’t think there’s any question it’s bad from certain members, but again, they post almost exclusively in PWI and GAL,
[/quote]
You’re absolutely right. The PLers and guys in the O35 crowd are awesome. [/quote]
I think you just miss Dixie

137

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I think the site took a turn for the worse in the last year or two in an attempt to “clean up” it’s image. Being “unapologetically hardcore ™” and banning anyone who had anything resembling a controversial opinion isn’t exactly congruent. I’ve spent THOUSANDS of dollars on Biotest supps over the years. I believe they are the among the best in the industry.

I used to recommend this site to anyone with an interest in lifting weights or looking good nekkid. But then they turn around and moderate every post I make and disable my PM’s? Those kinds of actions add up and hurt a website’s “street cred”. It’s simple human nature that if you censure people then it dumbs down the dialog.

I would LOVE to have the T-Nation from 2007-2009 back. Back then Prof X still gave good advice and MODOK, Bonez, CC, Meat, etc… were around mentoring folks. TC would actually write an article every so often. Actual amateurs who gave a shit, learned a lot and wanted to give back. Trolling was original and often an entertaining exception, not a boring “norm”.

It was almost like a locker room/bar/boys club all rolled up into one with the added bonus of sexy chicks - it was a cool place to hang out. SAMA could have been kept around and “downplayed” kinda like the way they kept the Steroid forum. Remember the awesomeness that Sen, Cowboy, Merlin, BG, Push, LEW, and yours truly used to drop? But decisions were made and they have suffered as a result. It’s not too late to turn it around, though.

My hope is that, instead of deleting or moderating this post, someone up there grows a set and says, “hey, what we’re doing isn’t working. Let’s go back and do what we KNOW we’re good at: being unapologetically hardcore”. That would kick ass, boost traffic, improve the site’s reputation, and ultimately sell more supplements which is what they are here to do.[/quote]

Man, no kidding. Very well said, and very much in concordance with my own thoughts.

And I spend even more money here than you do. ;-)[/quote]

This. I stopped buying Biotest sups when they started moderating my posts so heavily. Spent thousands over the years, recently I let my girl order some HOT-ROX through my account but I’m done with spending money with Biotest so long as they keep this censored stuff going on. If this post ends up changed or censored it will just further it and I will be done for life with them.

139

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

  1. We need to get the Alpha Cell up and kicking again… or even roundtable questions.
    [/quote]

That I would very much like to see.

And I would like the Unmentionable, dun, dun, duuuuuun, to be a part of it.

If there are disagrements on how to go about it, make it official so that we get to see where you disagree, why you disagree and how it fits into your overall regimen.

Pretty please? [/quote]

If memory serves, you were never admitted to Alpha…[/quote]

So what?

You think I have anything to add what someone like Stu might say?

No, I want people who seriously know their stuff to have a go at it.

I know when to shut up and listen.

[/quote]

Ha ha ha.

Calm down, O!

I was just yanking your chain.

But I DO seem to recall you being rather condescending about the whole Alpha thing…[/quote]

Well, I do not deny the possibility of me having made one or two smartass remarks about just about anything, but I do not really remember any regarding this particular topic.