Iranians aren’t anti-semites and they don’t want Israel wiped off the map.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I mean, let’s face it, the Mullah-Imam- gee let’s whip girls for showing an ankle plan is not working for these folks.
If that’s your concern, then you may wanna start with Saudi Arabia.[/quote]
Domino effect. Read my post. Also, we don’t want to piss off the Saudis, not yet anyway. They’ve got too many of our T-bills.
I suspect that they may eventually see the steamroller headed their way and (foolishly) try and stop it. We will, however, someday liberate all of the ME. The people there are suffering, I know, so we will liberate them.
We’re Americans, we like to help.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
We’re Americans, we like to help.
[/quote]
If you replace the word ‘help’ with the word ‘butt-in’ I would be more inclined to believe you. There is a difference. We would help more by staying out of the way.
If you feel a moral obligation to help out your fellow man you are free to do so but don’t ask the government to intervene on my behalf.
[quote]Ren wrote:
Iranians aren’t anti-semites and they don’t want Israel wiped off the map. [/quote]
And even if they do, it’s none of our business. It’s Israel’s. Let them fight their own battles. Look at their victories in 1967 and 1973 for proof. They don’t need US boys dying for their racist, apartheid, Zionist state.
[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
I’m disagreeing because I saw combat in Iraq. Short of a few people here, I’ve earned the right to disagree.
[/quote]
The right to disagree is an unalienable right endowed to all of us by “our Creator”.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
We can then proceed to help the people of the ME make a better life for themselves. Remember, their oil runs out in 50 or so years. If we can conquer the ME and help them enter a modern industrial era, they can become part of civilisation.
[/quote]
Is trying to introduce a Renaissance to the Middle East (something they should do for themselves by the way) worth anyone of our soldier’s lives? Hell, I don’t think it’s worth any of our money. If they can somehow manage to not see any benefit from as much money as we have thrown into the middle east on oil alone at this point, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
Doing another country’s work because they are too bogged down in religious traditions and bigotry is not worth it, nor do I think it will succeed to any degree. But we may manage to radicalize the population of Iran as they rally around their flag if we do invade. We need to stop trying to do other country’s work for them, and especially need to stop using the military as a medium for it.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
Is trying to introduce a Renaissance to the Middle East (something they should do for themselves by the way) worth anyone of our soldier’s lives? Hell, I don’t think it’s worth any of our money. If they can somehow manage to not see any benefit from as much money as we have thrown into the middle east on oil alone at this point, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
Doing another country’s work because they are too bogged down in religious traditions and bigotry is not worth it, nor do I think it will succeed to any degree. But we may manage to radicalize the population of Iran as they rally around their flag if we do invade. We need to stop trying to do other country’s work for them, and especially need to stop using the military as a medium for it.[/quote]
Best post I’ve ever read on the subject. Whether you know it or not, HH, Iran’s people hate their President more than you do. And guess what? If we invade, they’ll forget that hatred immediately and turn it all on the foreign fuckers trying to tell them what to do.
Because according to potus Bush, Childrens do Learn! .Maybe if we attack them now their Childrens will learn to like us like the Childrens of iraq.
[quote]ron33 wrote:
Childrens do Learn![/quote]
U.S. Americans like such in the Iraq and such as.
[quote]orion wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
What the western world needs to do is immediately place sanctions on Iran and used economic power to try and bring about a change in government in Iran. If the people cant eat and they know its because of the president they will soon figure out what they need to do so they can eat again.
Also looking back at your comment of a Saddam free Iraq being a natural ally of Tehran, I think you would agree that the president (through apparent democratic election) of Iraq would be Pro-America…?
2 points:
The sanctions on Iraq didn’t help the Iraqis get rid of Saddam, and as bad as he was. The radical muslims and other American haters blamed US for all of the deaths due to Saddam not feeding his own people so we still got a bad rap out of that.
And the majority of Americans think that Saddam was somehow responsible for 9-11 and they have far less reasons to think o than Iraquis have after you cut their power supply (hospitals, air condition) and destroyed their water facilities.
“They” do not blame you for that because they are America haters, they became America haters watching their parents and children die.
[/quote]
So, what? Do you think sanctions against Iran would be a good thing or a bad thing?
On an un-related note:
Too bad the Iraqis can’t see that the same people we had in their country to fix their power supplies, hospitals, air conditioners and water facilities were the same people the insurgents decapitated, hung from bridges, shot, or blew up.
If it were not for their own people (baathists) and foreigners (al-qaeda) they might have these utilities and institutions you speak of.
Or am I wrong suggesting that the reconstruction of Iraq and major loss of life is a result of insurgent violence against the people of Iraq.
Are you too much of an anti-American to see this truth?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Do they like the smell? I tell you what… I’ve never smelled something as foul as an unwashed Middle Eastern. Must be the food.
They complain about the smell of Americans too.[/quote]
Yeah, we just smell too damn good.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
We can then proceed to help the people of the ME make a better life for themselves. Remember, their oil runs out in 50 or so years. If we can conquer the ME and help them enter a modern industrial era, they can become part of civilisation.
Is trying to introduce a Renaissance to the Middle East (something they should do for themselves by the way) worth anyone of our soldier’s lives? Hell, I don’t think it’s worth any of our money. If they can somehow manage to not see any benefit from as much money as we have thrown into the middle east on oil alone at this point, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
Doing another country’s work because they are too bogged down in religious traditions and bigotry is not worth it, nor do I think it will succeed to any degree. But we may manage to radicalize the population of Iran as they rally around their flag if we do invade. We need to stop trying to do other country’s work for them, and especially need to stop using the military as a medium for it.[/quote]
Yours and Beowolf’s points are well-taken but I’m afraid its too late for that approach. Governments around the world are getting more and more effective at suppressing their populations.
Unless we keep the spark of freedom alive, it’ll quickly be snuffed out, by men like Chavez and Ahmandjihad.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Magnate wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
We can then proceed to help the people of the ME make a better life for themselves. Remember, their oil runs out in 50 or so years. If we can conquer the ME and help them enter a modern industrial era, they can become part of civilisation.
Is trying to introduce a Renaissance to the Middle East (something they should do for themselves by the way) worth anyone of our soldier’s lives? Hell, I don’t think it’s worth any of our money. If they can somehow manage to not see any benefit from as much money as we have thrown into the middle east on oil alone at this point, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
Doing another country’s work because they are too bogged down in religious traditions and bigotry is not worth it, nor do I think it will succeed to any degree. But we may manage to radicalize the population of Iran as they rally around their flag if we do invade. We need to stop trying to do other country’s work for them, and especially need to stop using the military as a medium for it.
Yours and Beowolf’s points are well-taken but I’m afraid its too late for that approach. Governments around the world are getting more and more effective at suppressing their populations.
Unless we keep the spark of freedom alive, it’ll quickly be snuffed out, by men like Chavez and Ahmandjihad.
[/quote]
Ahmadinejad’s term is up in '09 (although eligible for another term if he wins election). The Iranian population in large part despises him, I’d say wait until the election (if there is one) and see what happens there. It is a possibility he simply won’t be president for much longer.
If he subverts their constitution and names himself dictator or anything along those lines, I see your point, but as of now he isn’t supressing his people. Can’t Khamenei be blamed for more of the actual violence stemming from Iran than Ahmadinejad? (actual question)
Other than the hate speech against the Jews (Iranian parliament has a seat reserved for it’s token Jew by the way) he seems like he is being blamed for much more than he truly is responsible for or could hope to be. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Khamenei’s power and influence dwarfs his, no?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I mean, let’s face it, the Mullah-Imam- gee let’s whip girls for showing an ankle plan is not working for these folks.
If that’s your concern, then you may wanna start with Saudi Arabia.[/quote]
If we did attack the Saudis, the rhetoric would be: “They were better off under the Wahhabi’s!”
[quote]Magnate wrote:
Other than the hate speech against the Jews (Iranian parliament has a seat reserved for it’s token Jew by the way) he seems like he is being blamed for much more than he truly is responsible for or could hope to be. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Khamenei’s power and influence dwarfs his, no?[/quote]
Yes, that’s why when the moderate President was in charge, he could do little to change the situation for his people.
[quote]Ren wrote:
Iranians aren’t anti-semites and they don’t want Israel wiped off the map. [/quote]
In an interview with the Iranian president he was asked about Israel his thought about them and he said (this is not verbatim)
They don’t belong in the Middle east, if the jew’s are loved in Europe why doesn’t Europe give them their own state.
He carried on for sometime about how they should be eradicated and one day they will be forced to leave the Middle East so I tend to think he does want the Jews out of there and if he were in a position he would make it happen.
[quote]Magnate wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Khamenei’s power and influence dwarfs his, no?[/quote]
I would say it does, but thats just me.
Why don’t we wait for a nuke to go off in NYC or LA or D.C. and THEN go after Iran. THEN all the democrats will back a war with Iran just like they did with the war in Iraq. THEN after two or three years into the war in Iran people will all of a sudden “get tired of the war” and switch positions and be against the U.S. being in Iran.
It fucking pisses me off. Either you’re an American and you love your country or you’re an American and you don’t. If you don’t think this is the greatest country in the world and you insist on bad-mouthing everything from the president to our society as a whole–GO LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!!! There’s a difference between protesting and expressing your thoughts and straight up treasonous propaganda saying things like “our soldiers are murderers, they deserve to be killed.” Islamo-fascist terrorism isn’t like anything we’ve fought before. People always whine about, “What did we do to anger these muslims?” People don’t understand that they’re just fucking crazy and that their religion promotes violence (2/3 of Muslims living IN AMERICA does NOT condone suicide bombings)!
We’re dealing with a people who believe forty virgins wait for them if they die a martyr and that there are “no homosexuals in Iran.” (then why is there a death penalty for it if it doesn’t exist?)
I say we triple our budget for homeland security and remove what restrictions we have on the patriot act. Because how many attacks have we had since 9/11…uh, NONE! How many terror plots have we uncovered…LOTS! I think the only ones scared of government looking through emails and phone calls are the ones who hide kiddie porn on their computer and have other things to hide. Seriously, would you mind that the gov. listens in on phone conversations and screens emails if it means that downtown Honolulu doesn’t get nuked?
Fucking wake up and be a man. It’s so easy to sit on your fat ass from the living room and watch cable t.v. and listen to Hollywood elites like Susan Sarandon, Sean Penn (who supports Hugo Chavez and flat out dissed America while in Venezuela), and Martin Sheen talk about how evil America is and get caught up in that kind of rhetoric. Have some pride in your country and talk to people who’ve been there and ask them about the good things that happen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then shake their hands and thank them.
[quote]808fightconcepts wrote:
Why don’t we wait for a nuke to go off in NYC or LA or D.C. and THEN go after Iran. THEN all the democrats will back a war with Iran just like they did with the war in Iraq. THEN after two or three years into the war in Iran people will all of a sudden “get tired of the war” and switch positions and be against the U.S. being in Iran.
It fucking pisses me off.
[/quote]
If this country pisses you off so much why don’t you just fucking leave instead of bashing it? Why do you America haters always flood this board with posts about how this country does makes you so angry? Just leave already.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
orion wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:
What the western world needs to do is immediately place sanctions on Iran and used economic power to try and bring about a change in government in Iran. If the people cant eat and they know its because of the president they will soon figure out what they need to do so they can eat again.
Also looking back at your comment of a Saddam free Iraq being a natural ally of Tehran, I think you would agree that the president (through apparent democratic election) of Iraq would be Pro-America…?
2 points:
The sanctions on Iraq didn’t help the Iraqis get rid of Saddam, and as bad as he was. The radical muslims and other American haters blamed US for all of the deaths due to Saddam not feeding his own people so we still got a bad rap out of that.
And the majority of Americans think that Saddam was somehow responsible for 9-11 and they have far less reasons to think o than Iraquis have after you cut their power supply (hospitals, air condition) and destroyed their water facilities.
“They” do not blame you for that because they are America haters, they became America haters watching their parents and children die.
So, what? Do you think sanctions against Iran would be a good thing or a bad thing?
On an un-related note:
Too bad the Iraqis can’t see that the same people we had in their country to fix their power supplies, hospitals, air conditioners and water facilities were the same people the insurgents decapitated, hung from bridges, shot, or blew up.
If it were not for their own people (baathists) and foreigners (al-qaeda) they might have these utilities and institutions you speak of.
Or am I wrong suggesting that the reconstruction of Iraq and major loss of life is a result of insurgent violence against the people of Iraq.
Are you too much of an anti-American to see this truth?[/quote]
Well I see the “truth” that people where sent over there to try to rebuild infrastructure.
Unfortunately a lot of them are partisan hacks like the 24 year old that was sent to rebuild the stock market.
Others shamelessly enrich themselves and are protected by the powers that be while whistleblowers lose their jobs and careers.
I also know that billions are unaccounted for, Haliburton counts every can of coke it serves thrice and that cost-plus contracts are an invitation to fuck the American tax-payer.
On top of it, a few years after a Texan with a stuffed jock strap declared the mission accomplished the US military is niot able to protect the few people actually trying to rebuild anything because of amazing new developments in warfare, like people actually fighting back.
You broke it, you own it. To bad you can´t police it.
To put it in a nutshell, compared to the precision of the US military this administration is not fit to run a burger franchise.
As to Iran, there will be no sanctions, because even though Hedo thinks the US is the top dog that bestows credibility on others, the majority of the UN does not trust the US government and a lot would just vote you down to spite you and score points with their electorate.