Sounds like a very smart plan!
Agreed. I felt great about this appointment (listened to, understood) and the plan moving forward!
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I may have to get that PAās name from you. I wasnāt thrilled with the first one I tried there (boron for 150 shbg, lol)
Of course, man, just let me know. (though I was recommended Boron initially for SHBG of 180 ā lol ā I also started with HCG and an AIā¦which isnāt that much better, in hindsight)
Nice. Very interested to read how this progresses.
How many times a day are you supposed to take it? Iām taking 1.5 grains of Armour in the morning and 1 grain in the afternoon. I know itās T4+T3ā¦ But in total, there is 22.5mcg of T3 split throughout the day.
Strange enough, I donāt feel the morning dose quite love I feel the afternoon dose. About 1 hour after my afternoon dose, I feel my energy pickup.
Really interested to hear how you feel on T3 only.
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Thanks, brother. Iām not entirely sure, actually ā Iāll wait for the instructions to flesh that out.
I believe itās just a pill (right?) taken first thing in the AM on an empty stomach, and then you donāt eat for at least 30 minutes. Iām not sure if I would then be taking another dose in the PM. All this thyroid stuff is Greek to me, lol.
As @enackers mentioned, T3 has a short half life. What you take in the morning isnāt likely to still be active later in the day. I think thatās why some recommend T3+T4. T4 has a long half life and builds up over time and is the pool used to convert to more T3 (hopefully) while the T3 from the NDT is active immediately.
With me, I had very high TSH and very low T3 and T4ā¦ So I needed the T3 and T4. My original numbers:
TSH - 3.53 uIU/ML (0.400 - 4.100)
T3 Total - 0.91 ng/ml (0.80 - 2.00)
T4 Total - 5.3 MCG/DL (4.5 - 11.7)
I definitely feel better, but think I need more still.
Either way, I think you will be good to go. I bet youāll see a nice boost from the T3. Canāt wait to follow that progress too!
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Yeah, so my TSH is lower, T3 is higher, and T4 is lower ā so weāre also coming from exact opposite ends of the spectrum on thyroid, lol. So funny how that lines up.
As I understand it, the more T3 you take, the less the thyroid will produce T4ā¦so (in theory) my T3-only approach should lower T4 and RT3 while raising Free T3 (hopefully to top of range). If I were to take T3 and T4 as you are, that could shut down my natural production of T4, as my number was already only 1 (compared to your 5.3).
Based on my limited knowledge, I think the T3-only route is the right one for me ā but Iām not sure how the dosing will work. I definitely hope itās not a āpeaks and valleysā thing with only one dose in the AM. Itās interesting that you feel the afternoon dose (which is smaller, at 1 grain) more so than the AM dose (which is 1.5).
Iāve heard T3 gives you a lot of energy and focus, almost like an adderall-type effect.
How high do you think your T3 dosing might need to go?
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For some reason, humans are drawn to extremes. For that reason, I think, Fitness Dudes feel pulled toward bulking and cutting ā we are tempted to fully immerse ourselves into one methodology and mindset. Either Iām PACKING ON THE MASS (winter, time to get huge!) or Iām GETTING SHREDDED (summer, beach season baby!).
Polarities. No in-between.
But there are problems with fully diving into either extreme. With bulking, for example, the most obvious negative outcome is that you end up like YouTuber Stephanie Buttermore and ā even if you eat all clean foods, consume adequate protein, and train like a champion ā pack on fat.
You look and feel like shit. Further, putting on fat could harm your health.
The question, then, is: Do we need to bulk to gain muscle? I wish the answer were a flat-out āno.ā And if youāre at a healthy weight and are basically content with your appearance, you can eat at maintenance forever and be perfectly fineā¦maybe even make some minor muscle gains.
But, as @bmbrady77 astutely explained above in this thread, you probably need to eat in a slight surplus if you want to gain real muscle ā which is my aim, as my goal physique is a lean 200 lbs and Iād need to gain ~30 lbs of muscle to get there. Thatās a lot of muscle mass, and it probably canāt be attained eating at maintenance, even with the help of exogenous testosterone (provided I stay at TRT doses, which is certainly the plan).
The follow-up isā¦how slight? Eric Helms, whom I respect, has said you only need to consume 100 calories above maintenance to maximize muscle gains and anything above that is more or less superfluous ā I buy that. Thoughts from the crowd on what has worked for you?
Iām planning a ābulk,ā but my goal is to utilize the minimum effective dose, and thus minimize fat accumulation while gaining muscle. Iām in no rush to get massive. My problem in the past has been going too far in the bulking direction.
First, this girl went from eating 1500cals to 5000cals!! This is just INSANE and doesnāt even qualify as a valid example for this conversation. Nobody in their right mind would do thisā¦
Start at 100cals over and see how it goes. It may be enough for you. It will ALL depend on how many calories you are burning compared to what you are taking in.
Donāt over think this. Itās way too simple. Eat more than you burn to gain. Eat less to lose. itās that simple. The only things that matter are making sure that you donāt stay in the deficit for long enough to screw your metabolism, and donāt eat a TON over for gaining. Start at 100cals for 3 weeks or so. Then go to 200cals. Bring it up slowā¦ If you start seeing fat accumulate, then back it off 100calsā¦ You dial this in pretty much the same way you dial in your testosterone protocol.
Remember thisā¦1 lb of fat is about 3500calsā¦ To gain a pound of fat in a week, you will have to take in 3500 to 3700cals (depending on how many are eliminated through waste) above your expended rate for that week. Thatās about 500cals over per day. Same thing in reverse for losingā¦
You probably know this already but donāt eat or drink coffee until an hour after your first dose and 2 hours before or 1 hour after the second dose. (thyroid meds). My dad went years before realizing coffee fucked up the absorption lol
Damn, I didnāt know that. Waiting for that morning coffee is gonna be a struggle.
Yah @bkb333 dont even take vitamin d or water. No multi vitamin . nothing. Just take it and if its a pill crush it up in the mouth and swallow. more effective. if its liquid put it under the tongue for a little bit and then swallow empty stomach. so time the 2nd and 3rd dose in the day.
i would take the dose he gave me and dive it into 3 and take it across the day and well before bed time. I think i read folks suggest to take it every 4 hours . just look it up.
regardless i am glad it went well and he listen to logic.This is exactly what i meant earlier when i said you need a new doc if he didnāt respond to this logic. I am glad they did. A much better situation for you.
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High reverse t3.
@bkb333 you should definitely look at why rt3 occurs and fix the root cause instead of taking t3 only for long term. it is a fixable issue for most. i believe cortisol test will help identtify. check that site out i told you to. they tell you exactly what to do.
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I want the site!
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I assume he means stop the thyroid madness?
Yeah, thatās the one
Been looking around that website (thanks again) and debating what could be the root cause of high RT3 for me. I was on a cut over the summer, which is probably why it was so high then (31). But Iāve been eating at maintenance this fall and itās still pretty high (20). Hmmm.
Hereās what I got for cortisol results over the summer.
My provider didnāt see anything very noteworthy at the time. AM is a little bit high and so is Sample 3 but I donāt see anything that suggests cortisol is causing these high RT3 numbers. Do you see any red flags?
I also had an ultrasound of my abdomen a year ago. Liver, pancreas, kidneys, spleen all normal. I donāt know if cirrhosis/fatty liver disease/other liver stress would show up on that.
yes i do @dextermorgan
This is something ive never dealt with. I just know to point people in this direction when high rt3 occurs. Somethings off and hopefully it keeps dropping. just stay on top of it bro.